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NEWS: Japanese Bill Would Let Publishers Act on Behalf of Copyright Holders

You're moving the goalpost dude. You can't address the moral issue of the matter, so you're pretty much saying "that's not the real issue, the real issue is... economics!" That's weak sauce dude, weak sauce.

Even if we did look at the economics, my refuting point would be "look at the console video game industry". Console video games have existed under the strictest of copyright and licensing protections compared to any other entertainment medium, and it shows: less than 2% of all console game consumers have ever pirated a game, compared to 50% of all adults that have pirated at least some form of music, tv show or movie.

And what's the end result? [b]The video game industry has financially eclipsed practically every other entertainment medium.

Kikaioh wrote:

You're moving the goalpost dude. You can't address the moral issue of the matter, so you're pretty much saying "that's not the real issue, the real issue is... economics!" That's weak sauce dude, weak sauce.

"Look, it is not that we are greedy and stupid executives crying wolf, nooooo, we are the moral compass of the new generation" O_o;

Quote:

Even if we did look at the economics, my refuting point would be "look at the console video game industry". Console video games have existed under the strictest of copyright and licensing protections compared to any other entertainment medium, and it shows: less than 2% of all console game consumers have ever pirated a game, compared to 50% of all adults that have pirated at least some form of music, tv show or movie. And what's the end result? [b]The video game industry has financially eclipsed practically every other entertainment medium.

I have no doubt that you are getting your numbers from some ESA and BSA, the simple truth is that "The data reported by the industry are potentially biased, partially due to the interest of the industry to reduce piracy and thus potentially over-estimate the problem". Time to wake up from your opium dream and smell the coffee.

I am not an avid gamer and even I know that all of the previous generation protection schemes have been cracked for quite some time (and the next generation will be cracked as soon as there is enough interest), under your logic the console game industry would have collapsed back since piracy would be just as rampant as in cds (easy to rip), dvds (easy to rip) and blu-rays (harder to rip, but the protection has been cracked for years now).

mdo7 wrote:

Yeah that would be a way for a publisher to end their dispute with the mangaska, abuse the law by using planted evidence. That would be a serious problem, now I see the problem with this law. This is another example of Japan's draconian law and how backward that is.

I'm confused at how you get from "draconian" to "planting evidence".

mangamuscle, it's rather useless to do things like point out how copymonopoly laws actually work in reality to Kikaioh(not that he seems to have too much of a grasp on their theory).

As for his example, I find it interesting that Kikaioh seems to be completely ignoring the "PC Gaming Master Race" when talking about the video game industry; there you have a culture almost completely accepting of warez, but people still buy things on Steam they could get for free with a bit of googling. Here Valve saw copymonopoly violations as a sign of a service issue, acted and got rewarded. Like I said earlier, just creating something doesn't entitle you to one red cent; it's just something in your arsenal for the daily fight to talk people into giving you money.

And if you try to take an eagle's eye view of the conversation, I think you'll realize I didn't discuss the computer side of gaming because the thrust of my point was to demonstrate, counter to mangamuscle's beliefs, that a medium can absolutely dominate the entertainment industry even under the most stringent of copyright protections.

Judging by the snarkiness of your post, I'm thinking you have a bruised ego from some of our prior conversations. Come on dude it's just an online forum, no hard feelings huh? If you keep acting snarky, I'm going to think I got under your skin, you know? That's not cool.

This pretty much reflects a great deal of history since the institution was created. Of course, that's before digital made copying ludicrously easy(and consoles are really carrying a lot of inertia from that era), which is why I brought up my example - shouting "Don't copy that floppy!" isn't all that effective; you've got to make them want not to.

Which goes back to my point about nobody deserving anybody giving them money just because they labored on something. You've got to make people value it, make them want it, much like the way jeans weren't popular until a clothing company really, really wanted retail space and couldn't get any.

Just because seriously arguing with you is a waste of time doesn't mean I can't have fun with your posts - or rather, it quite encourages me to. But you can think I'm burning for you if you like - no skin off my back.

Well, I think part of my point wasn't so much that the console gaming industry was able to dominate entertainment despite copyright protections --- but rather, that the industry was able to fluorish because of them. The extreme copyright protections and limiting distribution models forced consumers to directly purchase/spend money on their entertainment, a model that helped to develop a culture that greatly values game content, especially when compared to other entertainment mediums.

How will overseas otaku enjoy themselves now?

So if overseas otaku want to read the newest manga release, they have only 3 choices.
(..)
3.
Start saving a butt load of money & go to Japan.

As for his example, I find it interesting that Kikaioh seems to be completely ignoring the "PC Gaming Master Race" when talking about the video game industry; there you have a culture almost completely accepting of warez, but people still buy things on Steam they could get for free with a bit of googling. Here Valve saw copymonopoly violations as a sign of a service issue, acted and got rewarded. Like I said earlier, just creating something doesn't entitle you to one red cent; it's just something in your arsenal for the daily fight to talk people into giving you money.