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INTEREST: Hideaki Anno Voices His Concerns About the Anime Industry


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asckj1



Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 46
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:58 pm Reply with quote
1 cour shows hmmm. Yeah that's something that's been done more and more from the last few seasons. Its definitely necessary to test if a concept might work in terms of sales. But bringing out some piece of manga adaptation and even though its a hit never giving it another season is no good. Well I'm just taking an example of Skip Beat! here.

Also I wonder if rushing manga adaptations, though the manga doesn't have enough material or ongoing story, is really necessary. yes, it might boost the manga sales. But if the full story gets a proper adaptation then the anime and related merchandise might get equally good sales I think.

There are a lot of old manga which really have interesting stories. One eg. I would immediately say is Basara manga. -just completed reading this series and the story is pretty awesome and very engaging. Its got a 13 eps anime adaptation only that too incomplete. If such kind of stories are brought forth in a fully adapted form in anime, I'm sure the anime sales could get benefited.

Only one thing I noticed is that recent manga and anime are more and more focused on school-life romance comedies in the shoujo section and battle, gore, ecchi and fanservice heavy shows in shounen section. Not saying that there aren't good stories being made, but the variety in stories in these main genres seems to be shrinking. Probably that's one thing that Anno wants to highlight when saying "the Japanese animation industry has hit a dead end". Creators really need to think on this fact thoroughly. Restricting to the fanbase in Japan only isn't really a good idea. Anime is gaining ground internationally fast and that's why when making shows the variety in the stories needs to be much more than what is getting created by mangaka as well as getting anime adaptations.


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Fedora-san



Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 464
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:04 pm Reply with quote
brankoburcksen wrote:
Hollywood already depends more on the international scene than the US. Maybe it is about time anime does the same.


That's probably why Hollywood is so creatively bankrupt these days. Filled with nothing but mass market popcorn movies starring white male protagonists because it's the most profitable one.

The issue is once you start aiming your product to another market, you lose what made it appealing to begin with. From a financial standpoint, yes, globalization and homogenization makes money. If that's all you care about, then that's fine. As a consumer, though, I feel it would be a terrible blow against anime. Name your favorite anime and I guarantee it would not have been made under the proposal you are suggesting. No doubt foreign committees would consider it too violent, too sexual, too esoteric, or if nothing else "too Japanese".

It's always odd to see fans push for this kind of globalization. You have no financial stake in these shows, so what do you gain as a consumer? If anything, you stand only to lose if this proposal comes to pass. Instead, we should be grateful Japan's market is enough to sustain this medium as is. Series like One Piece, Detective Conan, Pretty Cure, Gundam, Sword Art Online, Free, Attack on Titan, and virtually every other big titles under the sun are only able to exist in the first place because of the power of the Japanese market. You risk turning anime into western animation by asking for them to prioritize the western market. That's what happened with most European animation which are little different from American animation these days.
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Minami-Asakura



Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 104
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:08 pm Reply with quote
Evidently, everyone but moe fanatics can see the sorry state anime is in, the moe culture is the cancer of anime.

But for moe fanatics everything is alright of curse, things are better than ever, nothing is wrong. Blind glasses are awesome.


Last edited by Minami-Asakura on Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Minami-Asakura



Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 104
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:13 pm Reply with quote
Hoppy800 wrote:
It won't happen, anime is a business and stuff that has no chance of making money off merchandise and BDs/DVDs to an extent will not be made. Can studios try new things, yes, and they also should try new things but no one wants to take a risk because the costs can down a studio, this also is the same thing that the video game industry is facing but unlike the video game industry there are no feasible alternatives for risks to be taken like the indie developers in video games.


Now, the game industry is not in this sorry state (thou it has its good share of issues), there are things for everyone and a lot of games of different taste and genres sell well, sure shooters are the straps nowadays to make big bucks but its dominance is not even far far from the likes of moe in anime, I dont see darn guns in every single game and first person view, so no dont group games with anime and moe which is what is killing anime, the spirit of anime that is.

With your avatar is very clear what side you are on of course.


Last edited by Minami-Asakura on Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6268
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:18 pm Reply with quote
Also whatever asdqweiop said seem to confirmed what Justin Servakis said on Answerman.

Quote:
the producer coordinates the requests of the sponsors and original creator, and makes sure everything functions from a business point of view, while the Planning people select and hire the creative staff, drill down on defining the story, and coordinates all the gears to work in synchronicity together. Those guys are the ones calling the big overarching creative shots. The director then coordinates the episode directors, the art directors, character designers, and all of the people who define the look of the show.

Unlike Western producers, Japanese producers usually are businessmen who haven't gone to film school, and don't feel comfortable telling a director "this scene doesn't work with that music" or "this scene drags and needs to be cut down."


Well, now I know the problem of production committee and producers, lack of film school experience.
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Drac



Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 165
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:25 pm Reply with quote
Minami-Asakura wrote:
Hoppy800 wrote:
It won't happen, anime is a business and stuff that has no chance of making money off merchandise and BDs/DVDs to an extent will not be made. Can studios try new things, yes, and they also should try new things but no one wants to take a risk because the costs can down a studio, this also is the same thing that the video game industry is facing but unlike the video game industry there are no feasible alternatives for risks to be taken like the indie developers in video games.


Now, the game industry is not in this sorry state (thou it has its good share of issues), there are things for everyone and a lot of games of different taste and genres sell well, sure shooters are the straps nowadays to make big bucks but its dominance is not even far far from the likes of moe in anime, I don't see darn guns in every single game and first person view, so no don't group games with anime and moe which is what is killing anime, the spirit of anime that is.

With your avatar is very clear what side you are on of course.


The western video game industry will eventually collapse into itself for investing millions into these AAA games as the home console market continues to shrink. Evidently this is the same problem Hollywood is facing by putting out so many blockbusters every year.
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BishonenOtaku



Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:13 pm Reply with quote
While I don't think the overall quality of anime has gone down that much over the past few years, I will agree the industry has hit a stand-still when it comes to originality or novelty. For example, my three favorite shows of the season are an adaptation of a 15-year-old VN, an adaptation of a 20-year-old manga, and Inou-Battle, which I'd hardly call original at all
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:23 pm Reply with quote
asckj1 wrote:
Also I wonder if rushing manga adaptations, though the manga doesn't have enough material or ongoing story, is really necessary. yes, it might boost the manga sales. But if the full story gets a proper adaptation then the anime and related merchandise might get equally good sales I think.

Only one thing I noticed is that recent manga and anime are more and more focused on school-life romance comedies in the shoujo section and battle, gore, ecchi and fanservice heavy shows in shounen section. Not saying that there aren't good stories being made, but the variety in stories in these main genres seems to be shrinking. Probably that's one thing that Anno wants to highlight when saying "the Japanese animation industry has hit a dead end". Creators really need to think on this fact thoroughly. Restricting to the fanbase in Japan only isn't really a good idea. Anime is gaining ground internationally fast and that's why when making shows the variety in the stories needs to be much more than what is getting created by mangaka as well as getting anime adaptations.


If there's been a narrowing of the variety in a medium, that's more indicative of the audiences still willing to consume that medium. It's the medium going upmarket.

I'd also like to say that even manga can get rushed forward in its story. World Trigger is currently moving much faster than its author intended, as its readership was sagging and the editor suggested he move major reveals forward. It seems to have worked, though World Trigger is having a tough time again.

Fedora-san wrote:
The issue is once you start aiming your product to another market, you lose what made it appealing to begin with. From a financial standpoint, yes, globalization and homogenization makes money. If that's all you care about, then that's fine. As a consumer, though, I feel it would be a terrible blow against anime. Name your favorite anime and I guarantee it would not have been made under the proposal you are suggesting. No doubt foreign committees would consider it too violent, too sexual, too esoteric, or if nothing else "too Japanese".

It's always odd to see fans push for this kind of globalization. You have no financial stake in these shows, so what do you gain as a consumer? If anything, you stand only to lose if this proposal comes to pass. Instead, we should be grateful Japan's market is enough to sustain this medium as is. Series like One Piece, Detective Conan, Pretty Cure, Gundam, Sword Art Online, Free, Attack on Titan, and virtually every other big titles under the sun are only able to exist in the first place because of the power of the Japanese market. You risk turning anime into western animation by asking for them to prioritize the western market. That's what happened with most European animation which are little different from American animation these days.


My favorite anime series is One Piece. Its premise, characters, setting, and narrative style can be immediately understood in both eastern and western cultures. Interesting you mention that directly, because of the major franchises over the past decade or so, One Piece has been by far the most western-influenced. (Well, you can say Panty & Stocking is also really western, but it's more like a Japanese teams' perception of what American animation is like.)

Another thing to consider is that when competition becomes sufficiently intense and/or the company has become large enough, having a one-country audience may not be enough to sustain the company. Hollywood goes for international appeal so much because its movies cost so much money that few of the big-budget titles nowadays can break even in the United States alone--it needs the push from the global market.

It's a trade-off: The more for yourself you want to make something, the less funding you're going to receive. If you want to make this awesome piece that's going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars (or billions of yen, I suppose), you're going to have to think globally to make that amount back.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:25 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
Also whatever asdqweiop said seem to confirmed what Justin Servakis said on Answerman.

Quote:
the producer coordinates the requests of the sponsors and original creator, and makes sure everything functions from a business point of view, while the Planning people select and hire the creative staff, drill down on defining the story, and coordinates all the gears to work in synchronicity together. Those guys are the ones calling the big overarching creative shots. The director then coordinates the episode directors, the art directors, character designers, and all of the people who define the look of the show.

Unlike Western producers, Japanese producers usually are businessmen who haven't gone to film school, and don't feel comfortable telling a director "this scene doesn't work with that music" or "this scene drags and needs to be cut down."


Well, now I know the problem of production committee and producers, lack of film school experience.


No, that's good. Because as Justin states here and I just previously mentioned, they delegate anything to do with creative direction over to the creators so long as sponsors can play their ads or plug their product, it's all good. Let me emphasize a different part of your post:

Quote:
Unlike Western producers, Japanese producers usually are businessmen who haven't gone to film school, and don't feel comfortable telling a director "this scene doesn't work with that music" or "this scene drags and needs to be cut down."


I would rather not have the producers and committee members thinking "Hey I went to film school, so I know better!" and meddle or micromanage.

This is one of the reasons why we see a lot of variety of works in anime and just a ton of genres and demographic targets produced, as opposed to the Western animated cartoons where sponsors tend to meddle and are very careful with maintaining a kid-friendly image, being very risk averse. The dispute between Disney/Marvel vs Hasbro is an example of the toy company wanting to shape the content. Lawson doesn't mind whether their stores are featured in a ecchi show like Yuushibu, or slice of life show, or a perfectly mainstream show. Major Japanese music record companies are not averse to producing hentai so long as they can feature their singles in the OP and ED. The Japanese producers are less meddlesome in the actual animation and story than some kickstarter supporters of UTD.


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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2404
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:33 pm Reply with quote
I think this is just a case of rose tinted glasses. I mean this whole 'anime was so much better in the 90s' thing, is that really true? I've been watching anime since gundam W first aired on toonami, and I can't even think of a couple dozen from the 90s that I think are amazing... If I actually sat there and counted from everything I've seen, I'd probably pull a comparable or larger number from 04-13 as I would from 90-99.

I think the real issue is that the western audience is more aware now of all the garbage that gets produced now, but the vast majority of the 90s series people are familiar with are all decent hits and considered classics. Back then a much larger portion of shows went under the radar as only a very, very, very small portion got released here, and by the time fansubbing really took off, the 90s were over. Now we have streaming sites and a very large portion of new content is viewable here instead of just the popular stuff that people liked / thought would sell.

New and different things are still being produced. There just happens to be a bunch of generic stuff in there too a lot of which is pretty bad.

This just sounds like whining from somebody that couldn't get investors to sign onto do something and is crying about it. Or some one who is trying to relive the past by continuously remaking his one work that got him famous. I mean why is it that when I hear of some one saying something about the current anime industry being doomed / inferior to the old days, it is some guy that hasn't had a big hit in over a decade (remaking an old hit doesn't count)?


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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6268
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:35 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:


No, that's good. Because as Justin states here and I just previously mentioned, they delegate anything to do with creative direction over to the creators so long as sponsors can play their ads or plug their product, it's all good. Let me emphasize a different part of your post:

I would rather not have the producers and committee members thinking "Hey I went to film school, so I know better!" and meddle or micromanage.


Yeah, but it caused a big side effect which leads to some stuff goes wrong in anime:

Mark Schilling of Variety wrote:
Most commercial films are produced by TV networks and other media companies in a system of “production committees” (or seisaku iinkai) in which partners share investment, PR and other chores in return for a share of the profits. Six or eight partners, ranging from video distributors to radio broadcasters and advertising agencies, is common. And 12 partners is not uncommon.

Significantly, the partners not only have a say in what gets made – most commonly adaptations of popular novels, comics and TV dramas ­— but also how it gets made.

Veteran scriptwriter and indie director Junichi Inoue says this leads to “jishuku” ­— which literally translates as “self-restraint,” but really means “self-censorship.” “It’s more effective than official censorship, actually,” Inoue told a seminar audience at the 2014 Nippon Connection Film Festival in Frankfurt, where his hard-hitting WWII drama “A Woman and War” screened.


This seem to applied to anime, so a production with people with no film school or art school experience is never good IMO, because they don't know how to express creativity or think like an artist, it hampers creativity and development in anime.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:41 pm Reply with quote
@md07

There is a major flaw in that argument when it applies to adaptations of existing works, which is what the majority of anime is. What is there is meddle or change when you know exactly what you're going to produce? Members know exactly what's involved, so they can take it or leave it. As Justin mentioned, as I mentioned and as the UTD producers mentioned, they don't particularly care about the actual contents, with some exceptions if they are aiming at a global audience (there is some risk aversion in the Gundam universe for producing original content because Gunpla's are big conservative regions in Asia) That is much more preferable and conducive to creativity, if you are seeking investment from third parties. I would prefer to leave writing to the writers, animating to the animators and directing to the directors rather than the producers.

In any case, the ultimate concern is recouping investment, hence the emphasis on commercialization and merchandise after it's made, coming back to what this article is about.


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Joe Mello



Joined: 31 May 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:42 pm Reply with quote
There has to be some middle ground. I can understand concerns about strictly going for profit margin, but I also don't think you can get away with 100% unrestricted creative freedom. At the end of the day, we're talking about commercial art, and the good works tend to satisfy both halves of that term.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:50 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
@md07

There is a major flaw in that argument when it applies to adaptations of existing works, which is what the majority of anime is. What is there is meddle or change when you know exactly what you're going to produce? Members know exactly what's involved, so they can take it or leave it. In any case, the ultimate concern is recouping investment, hence the emphasis on commercialization and merchandise after it's made, coming back to what this article is about.


There is another way to earn back money beside commercialization and merchandising, try marketing that anime on the international market with no or little licensing restriction (Region blocking I can understand). There's 2 thing Japan kinda lag on, aggressive marketing and globalization.
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Kaioshin_Sama



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 1215
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:04 am Reply with quote
Somebody had to say it. It seems pretty clear to me under the late night anime premium BD selling industry model that anime as a medium has kind of plateaued.

H. Guderian wrote:
He means the reliance on Production Committees, I am sure. Not that merchandising occurs.


I think that's what he's talking about. Basically under this model only 4-5 large companies primarily with commercial rather than artistic considerations in mind dictate pretty much all the content that gets made with them being the only ones really in a position and willing to fund it. Bandai Namco Holdings, Aniplex/Sony Music Entertainment, Kadokawa Shoten, TV Tokyo and Funimation are typically the regulars. You don't get a hit anime franchise/adaptation or for the most part even an anime at all without going through at least one of these companies first and likely giving them the right to take the biggest cut anymore. It brings up the image of the robber barons of the early 1910's when monopolies were totally an okay and transparent thing before anti-trust law temporarily put a stop to them.


Last edited by Kaioshin_Sama on Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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