Forum - View topicWhat's So Gay About Yuri!!! on Ice?
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Fipse
 Posts: 74 |
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Anime and manga sure love to stay just a centimeter before the first kiss and confession. It does tend to get quite annoying... I think a main issue is that most stories are adaptations of manga/LN that are still ongoing. So of course there wont be any confession. |
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explosionforgov
 Posts: 80 Location: United States of America |
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[Disclaimer: As far as I've worked out my identity, I'm either bi or pan, and I'm female-bodied, though I'm not entirely sure whether I identify as male, female, or something in-between.]
I want more explicitly gay characters, even if it means I wouldn't be able to feel comfortable fantasizing about my fave and I being A Thing, and I think part of the appeal of gay couples for me is that when a character is canonically straight, his love interest almost never gets fleshed out in the story in the same way his male not-love-interest best friend does. I want straight love interests, particularly female ones, to be treated as less of plot devices that barely exist, and more as actual characters. I also want to be able to see myself in lesbian characters, and my friends to see themselves in gay male characters, at the same time. I'd also like to see more bi characters, because a lot of fandoms and queer people tend to look at us as a "consolation prize," or "too gay for straight people, too straight for gay people," or "prone to infidelity," none of which are true. The reactions to Rose Quartz in the Steven Universe fandom is evidence of this, especially when you get to Rose/Pearl vs. Rose/Greg shippers. As far as I'm aware, she canonically expressed romantic feelings towards both at different times, and that's honestly how bisexuality works in the real world. I apologize if this was confusingly written, I have a lot of conflicted thoughts on the subject. |
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meiam
Posts: 3442 |
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At this point I'm fairly certain Yuri on ice is, and will firmly stay, in the Yaoi baiting category, like rizuchan said they made sure to have Yuri directly express love for a female character very early in the series. On the other hand, nothing is direct about Yuri and Victor attraction, no matter how much you bold the text. At the end of the series nothing will have happens and everything will be left in the air.
I think the only difference is that since baiting is so common show have to push further and further to sell the idea that they might be gay to get a reaction out of the targeted audience. Personally I don't dislike baiting because its disrespectful or anything like that, I just dislike how shows spend so much energy on something that will ultimately have no conclusion. It's even worse when they abruptly try to reverse course toward the end, for example if Kumiko from sound eupho suddenly fell in love for trombone boy it would be extremely awkward now and feel rushed, and so all the time they spend on baiting Kumiko x Reina could have been used to make the trombone boy romance feel more fleshed out. As far as LGBT show accurate portrayal, I think the real milestone is going to be when a gay main character fall for a straight character and the straight character remain straight. I think this would show an appreciation of the subject matters and also would help create a work that doesn't feel like it's just a normal romance show where they just gender flip one of the character. |
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kazenoyume
Posts: 425 |
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I have some problems with this article and I think there's a couple of situations where potential representation is being put down to prop up Yuri on Ice (a series I granted, do like), but I'll just point out a couple of things.
No not really. Kumiko shows no romantic interest in Shuichi in the tv anime. In fact, the second series makes it clear so far that she is pretty much negative interested in him. As for Reina's feelings for Taki, since it's clear they're never going to be reciprocated it's hard to call him a 'love interest'. I think you're underselling Eupho by calling it 'voyeuristic'. There's a literal confession of love. That's not just a focus on how the subjects 'look'. It's dialogue made explicit. There is a chance that Eupho will fall into the purely queerbaiting category, but right now, it's up in the air.
No they aren't. Huh? I love Madoka Magica to bits, and I absolutely think KyoSaya is meant to be implied, but they are not 'explicitly dating' in the films. Also HomuraMadoka was beyond subtext in the tv series and it was lovely. If anything the films, imo, fetishized it which is so unfortunate. As for representation: Queer men and women are represented in the much underappreciated Gatchaman Crowds and Samurai Flamenco. Samurai Flamenco features a male attracted lead hero and a bisexual deuteragonist. The lead female is bisexual and her girlfriend is a lesbian. Gatchaman Crowds has a gay man who is thoughtful and well-written, and the secondary lead of the show is Rui, a wiz kid hacker who is gender non-conforming (and this is never made a joke of). There's also little to no heteronormativity? It's pretty cool. |
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ch3ru
Posts: 4 |
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Where? I definitely don't remember this at all. I do remember a moment when it looked like maybe Yuuri was about to confess to her, but then her kids and husband showed up. In retrospect, it would be amazing if he was about to come out to her or something, but I know that's probably crazy wishful-thinking talk. |
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PsychoPearl
Posts: 152 |
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I would love to see an actual anime or manga where an LGBT character or characters are represented respectfully instead of the usual stereotypical gay guys I've seen in anime.
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chaccide
Posts: 295 |
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At one point he said he idolized her from the time he was little, and I think people are misremembering that as love. It's clear though that he's never thought of her sexually though, because his go to Eros inspiration is a pork cutlet bowl. Seriously, the guy doesn't have a clue about sexual experience at this point, and from the sounds never even masturbated because he'd at least have had a fantasy to go with that. Unless he's fantasizing about the katsudon. 
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Aquamine-Amarine
Posts: 276 |
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Don't tell me those stupid yaoi fangirls are ruining this show too? I HATE how they see gay everywhere. We can't have nice male (or female) friendships anymore, because all they see is gay...
If you want to read yaoi, fine, go and read some yaoi. I don't have a problem with gay pairings if the author makes it clear that the characters are supposed to be gay. But stop ruining sports manga/anime with your delusions. |
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Wtv
Posts: 157 |
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I'm sorry, but I really disagree with this text. I understand you like the show so much, I watch it and I think it's good too, but I feel like you're trying too much to give it more credit at the cost of other shows.
I'll admit, it's the Flip Flappers comparison that triggered me to write this. Since you didn't write much about it, you're probably not even watching it, but I still think you're being unfair to other shows, its fans and the reason people watch it. To begin with, the writer for Flip Flappers, Ayana Yunico, is a (female) yuri fan. Not only that, she actually writes articles about yuri for a magazine. And she's not a new fan influencied by the success of Yuru Yuri. She's actually a hardcore fan with her drastic visions about the genre. There's a interview with her about that where she touch on the subject of subtext and representation of the genre here: https://yaranakya.wordpress.com/2015/06/30/on-yuri-2-changing-definitions/ And Flip Flappers has a lot of work on the girls relationship and a lot imagery about the yuri genre. Their relationship moves the entire show, and there's clearly an attraction between them, even on physical level. Its nowhere less gay than Yuri On Ice in any way. In fact, so far it has way more chances of giving a canon yuri end than Yuri on Ice has of giving a canon yaoi. Some problems I saw on Yuri On Ice aren't present there, like the fact that those guys talk more than should about women and girlfriends. It doesn't even make sense to say that Yuri on Ice is not fetishized when the producer said this: http://seiyuuslittleforest.tumblr.com/post/150257135470/reasons-to-watch-yuri-on-ice-1-thiiisss on an event for straight women. I don't want to decide to you what better represent your sexuality or anything, but it seems to me like you're trying to bash other shows to make it seem like the on you like is the only true representative one, and the rest are baseless baiting. It's not "bait" if the two character doesn't end up with people of the opposite sex at the end. Most of the time they just won't end up together because the producers won't allow. Most of Kirara's artists nowadays for example are yuri doujin artists who used to make romantic stories. A lot of them are women. Also, I don't agree that every sexual fanservice in those is meant for straight male audience. Sakura Trick for example has a female author, she was the one who asked to the anime to focus on the girls breasts and tights. It's not like girls don't like that, too. Valkyrie Drive is a curious case, because while clearly meant for male audience, almost all art and doujin about the show are made by female artists, making them actually better than the actual show, that's not really good. So I understand that you like Yuri on Ice so much, and you think it represents better your sexuality than other shows. But I don't think it's fair to say that at the cost of those other shows values. Specially if you're being unfair, pointing problems on them that are actually present in the very show you're trying to recommend. Last edited by Wtv on Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:22 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Whis-pur
Posts: 131 |
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" Yaoi fangirls started threatening unsuspecting bottoms with giant paddles many years ago"
Oh my. |
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zrnzle500
 Posts: 3767 |
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Jacob is the one reviewing Flip Flappers for the site, so I'm fairly confident that he is watching it. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23832 |
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And how exactly does sports manga/anime get "ruined" if some viewers choose to make gay pairings or see gay elements? Oh, poor baby, does somebody else's imagination "ruin" things for you? Must be tough to have such an assailable mind. |
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Merida
 Posts: 1945 |
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Agreed. I seriously didn't get that Yuri had been pining for her all those years and was now about to confess (after she'd been married to and had triplets with a guy he's friends with for a couple of years...) from that scene until somebody mentioned it in the preview guide. I guess it's not just "fujoshi" who interpret things whichever way they like... 
Also, very interesting and informative article. I'm not sure i'll be strong enough to read all the comments here (though "don't ruin this completely and utterly heterosexual anime with your filthy fantasies!1!1!!!" never fails to make me snicker...especially in this case...) |
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zrnzle500
Posts: 3767 |
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Even if one thinks that people are just seeing things in shows with lighter subtext, the subtext in Yuri is so blaring it's hard to ignore. While I wouldn't go so far as saying they're delusional, the ones saying Yuri is totally hetero are the ones that seem to be forcing their interpretation onto the text not the ones that see it as gay. I say that as someone who is neither fu nor joshi.
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Crisha
Moderator
 Posts: 4290 |
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I have issues in regards to baiting and popular tropes for yaoi and yuri, both briefly mentioned in this article.
In regards to yaoi, I've grown to really dislike the seme/uke trope. How one character is more submissive and feminine and the other is more domineering and masculine. I have even bigger issues when there are any hints of rape or dubious consent. I don't enjoy watching fictional relationships that have an uneven imbalance of power, especially when one side uses it to their advantage. In regards to yuri, I've grown to really dislike Class S. The idea that these strong emotional relationships between girls is just a phase, that such relationships are encouraged to keep them "pure", and that they grow up and eventually marry a guy because it's expected. And even really good baiting shows, like Sound! Euphonium, feel like that; it irks me greatly because the emotional (and romantic) aspect is so well-done but I know what the outcome will likely be and so I dislike getting invested. It's quite possible that both characters are bi and they both end up falling in love with a guy (as happens in real life), but the show is not going for that type of story. Neither is it going for a story where the two characters at least acknowledge their feelings but decide to go the socially acceptable route, which I can at least respect for addressing what's a reality for some people. Instead, I'm left frustrated with baiting. Baiting in male/male onscreen relationships do bother me, but not nearly as much as female/female onscreen relationships, which I think is largely due to me being a homo-romantic asexual female. I was able to become attached to Rin/Haru, but I couldn't as much with Reina/Kumiko despite wanting to (although I have read fanfiction for both - sadly, the latter is more lacking). Part of that is affected by the fact that the girls both have the potential male love interests, with one girl outright saying she pines for hers. In Free!, most of the guys don't have any romantic inclinations for any females (or, arguably, males) so their interpretation is left more open. Anyways, this was a very interesting article to read, Jake. Thanks for elaborating your thoughts on the matter. Last edited by Crisha on Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:57 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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