Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Cutie Honey Universe
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Brack
 Posts: 281 Location: UK |
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Last episode she explained to Nat-chan that she was using a PCSI issue disguise kit to turn her into a rock, to explain away her powers. |
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palom
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This pretty much |
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Mosaic
 Posts: 75 |
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She also recognized Honey as Hurricane Honey back in episode 3, and saw her transform there as well. She also saw Honey transform in the previous episode, using her attacks, doing a crazy spider jump, and using powers to make her a rock. I know Honey tried to play it off as a PCIS trick, but that doesn't work for me. They could've at least had Natsuko kind of wonder about Honey throughout the episode or something. It's bad writing. Granted, nearly every series is bad with Honey's secret identity nonsense, but Universe has by far been the worst. |
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GeorgeC
Posts: 795 |
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Well, CHU turned around Episode 6 for the better but it's still the weakest anime version of Cutie Honey I've ever seen and I've seen most of the adaptations.
It's been getting better gradually but it's not a show I would buy on home video -- not when everything else I've seen with the exception of Sailor Cutie Honey has been a better version of this character. Yeah, it's the writing and art direction. Very, very generic. The whole secret thing has been open since episode 1 so the business of having Natsuko freak out at this point is puzzling. I don't agree that the other Cutie Honey anime handled this issue badly. Her android identity was hidden from the Hayamis forever in the original anime series. About midway through the 1973 anime, Natsuko had a "bad accident." Around then, the Hayamis found out Honey was an android. Natsuko's fate in the original anime mirrored what happened in the co-running manga of that time frame, too. The major change in CHU from the 1973 anime is that Natsuko has survived to this point. The cringe-inducing statue scene with the Hayamis and Natsuko being hidden under a fake rock are ripped straight from the 1973 manga. The 1973 TV anime did not have those scenes. I definitely like the 1973 anime better than the 1973 manga. The manga was not written as well and sort of wandered all over the place. There was also no definitive end to the story, no final confrontation between Honey and Panther Zora although Sister Jill was dealt with. spoiler[The direct follow-up to the 1973 anime, New Cutie Honey, did declare that Honey dealt with Panther Zora and she was destroyed after the 1973 anime finished but Zora came back later in the mid-1990s New Cutie Honey anime. Sister Jill was NOT in New Cutie Honey. Jill was killed by Honey in both the 1973 anime and manga series. ] Depending on what you read, New Cutie Honey happens 30 years later OR a century after the 1973 TV series. Frankly, 30 years later makes more sense given the state of technology and the way the cars look in New Cutie Honey. Danbei is the only other character from the 1973 series besides Honey that returns. There are a lot of cameos and Go Nagai in-jokes in New Cutie Honey. How they'll resolve the Jill/Zora storylines in CHU -- well, we'll find that out in the last four episodes. |
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Mosaic
Posts: 75 |
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It's not handled terribly, but in episode 5 of '73 Danbei is somehow able to recognize Honey in a couple of disguises. He doesn't learn Honey's secret until episode 13. It's not a huge plothole, but it's definitely a sloppy moment in the series. Said episode was written by Susumu Takaku who was an notoriously poor writer in the series. His episodes typically had an OOC moment, or annoying plothole. New Cutey Honey also handled Chokkei discovering Honey's identity a... bit strangely. He knew had super human abilities, and knew Danbei when he was younger, yet was shocked to find out she was an android. Though, considering all the cybernetic characters in the show, I guess it's unreasonable.
New Cutey Honey definitely takes place 150 years later. Danbei even mentioned this within the series. Official releases even state this. It's sort of a stand-alone sequel (similar to Kotetsu Shin Jeeg), since it contradicts certain aspects of the original TV series. It honestly works better as a follow up to the 70's manga. Anyway, I was a huge fan of this episode. I liked the character interactions, and the pacing was on for once. |
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GeorgeC
Posts: 795 |
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From the review: "but the choice to adapt Go Nagai's relatively short original manga into a full-cour series"
It's funny but the original 1973 anime was 23-25 episodes long and pacing was NOT a problem for that series. I do agree with other people that the animation itself of the original anime series suffered going on from about episode 11 or 13 onward but the story's pacing was fine for the most part. The original CH manga itself had issues... They had a basic storyline figured out but the execution left something to be desired with a very eccentric (some would say ugly) drawing style and storytelling that made sharp turns that essentially went in circles. At one point (going but what I've seen), it seemed like they rebooted the series and the drawing style changed for the second volume(?) of the collected version I skimmed. It's NOT the exact same story as the 1973 anime, they tackled some things different and the anime itself wasn't as graphic in the violence or sexuality. The one definite fault the 1973 anime and manga shared was lack of an ending; they both ended abruptly without a real resolution. They barely touched on Panther Zora but Honey definitely dealt with Sister Jill. Poor Natsuko had a sad fate in both versions of the original storyline, too, but what happened in Episode 9 of CHU was arguably nastier. The entire CHU has been shaping up to be a particularly nasty spin on Cutie Honey, period, which is sad. I wouldn't call the treatment vile even if a few scenes definitely crossed the border into lewd territory but the series is not a positive one and feels gloomey. The other versions of Cutie Honey I've seen were far more light-hearted. I think some characters SHOULD have a more light-hearted treatment or the situation just gets overly sad and depressing. The execution of this series so far makes me glad the other CH anime were handled differently. I'm fairly positive at this point I'm not buying this series when it DOES become available on home video. I'll probably get Maz Z: Infinity (which IS a celebration of Go Nagai's signature robot series) but not this version of Cutie Honey... I wish they hadn't tried to tackle a "straight" adaptation of that original manga. Huge, huge mistake and the rewriting/direction they took didn't help the case. Tackle that with an unenthusiastic production and godawful theme music didn't help this series at all. I really do like the title character but this is just NOT a good Cutie Honey series. It's not a total rejection of the original concept like Cutie Honey: Tears was but it's by far the worst anime version of Cutie Honey I've seen... |
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Spike Terra
 Subscriber Posts: 359 Location: Maryland |
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Wait are we talking about the same version of Cutie Honey that spent half an episode on Alphonse failing to ride a horse. How about the episode where Honey enrolls in her second school and spends at least seven minutes in a dull chase scene. I could go on for hours on the pacing problems of 1973 version with it's repetitious ending theme that feels like it's ten minutes, it's 25 episode run where 20 of those episodes felt like complete filler and it's weird cliffhanger conclusion. That being said, I can see why Cutie Honey is a beloved series and why plenty of people enjoyed the 73 version. I just prefer Universe over the first one (keep in mind, I have only seen the 73 version but I do want to watch all of the other incarnations of this series). I find the story to be more engaging. Honey, Natsuko (I'm actually kind of pissed that they killed her off) and Seiji feel like fully fleshed out characters this time around. I like the direction they are going with Sister Jill this time around and I hope to see Tarantula Panther go through a full character arc. I also love the music this time around especially (which seems to get a lot of hate). Though Universe still suffers from a boatload of underutilized characters (I feel like they wasted Histler, when she had like the perfect seiyuu this time), a reliance on repetitive gags that never seem to pay off and the fight scenes can get pretty underwhelming from time to time. |
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Mosaic
Posts: 75 |
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There were two short scenes of Alphonne fighting with a horse in episode 11. I hardly call that "half an episode". Quit exaggerating. A "dull chase scene"? She goes through a number of changes and tricks to avoid Naojiro and his gang. And even then, it's probably a total of 3-4 minutes total. Cutie Honey originally aired on an hour-long variety show that originally aired Devilman, and Microid S. Because of that, the actual episode is only about 19 minutes long. It originally aired with a 45 second opening, a 15 second preview, and no ending credits. To full in time for reruns, they extended the opening, included a long ending, and extended previews. Same thing goes for Devilman, and Microid S. The ending credits aren't critical to the series, so... just skip it if you hate it that much? I don't understand how it affects the series. For a 25 episode series, I think it actually did a pretty good job balancing out the storyline without being too repetitive. I think the only part of the series that feels that way is the beginning (Seiji getting hurt/kidnapped again and again, Honey escaping school). By episode 13, you start having major plot developments, episode 16 to 20 has Honey and the gang traveling the world while Jill tries to rebuild her Japanese empire, and the last batch of episodes deal with Paradise Academy. I myself liked the ending, but I do wish it got another 13 episodes just to flesh out Paradise Academy, but the producer admitted to getting too excited about ratings and didn't think the series would end right away. Having watched other Toei (and Go Nagai) series from that time period, I think Honey did a great job with pacing. The writers definitely made it so the series wasn't getting too bland, and were changing settings and plots a bit to keep the show interesting. By episode 25 of Mazinger Z, the robot was even getting an upgrade. I guess I'd tell you to steer clear of '72 Devilman.
...Really? I'll agree with you on Natsuko, and Jill, but Honey and Seiji are extremely bland in this version. I want to like Honey here, but she's honestly just too bland. They're spending so much time on Jill that Honey feels like a side character. And Seiji is severely underused in this series. Other than the last couple of episodes, he's done little to nothing in the series. It quite a departure from the '73 series where he was a main character, and was very involved with Honey's battle against Panther Claw. |
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Spike Terra
Subscriber Posts: 359 Location: Maryland |
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@Mosaic Thanks for giving me more information on the broadcast of the 73 version. I feel like the 73 version was a very much a product of it's time and I was judging it by the way I have come to enjoy anime as a modern viewer. I was initially bummed out after the half way point because after the arc where the academy burnt down (which was the high point in the series for me), it felt like Cutey Honey was just retreading the same ground with slightly different variables.
As for my second point, I feel like Seiji this time around contributes more to the team because his screen time isn't being completely devoured by Junpei and Danpei. He functions as emotional support for Honey and Natsuko. As for Honey, I will admit she can be a bit generic for the most part but I feel that resonates more with me on an emotional level than the 73 version of her character. That being said, I still really enjoy the original adaptation of her character. Though I'm wondering, if Universe is the least liked of the Cutie Honey franchise, which entry is the most revered? |
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Lemonchest
Posts: 1771 |
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I think two things to remember are that:
1) the 1973 version is a monster of the week show that occasionally uses dramatic plot points from the manga to move the story forward. Moreover, CH didn't follow the usual path followed today of the manga being published for a couple volumes, then adapted; but was a single volume published concurrently when the shows producers decided to salvage a previous idea for a shojo show they'd been working on with Nagai by making it into a monster of the week show for boys (these were the days when anime was mainly made to sell toys, not comics). It's not like Devilman where they took a pre-existing manga & warped it into a monster of the week show that had little to do with the source material (that's not a criticism. I prefer the irreverent goofiness of the Toei version to the tiresome seriousness of later adaptations). 2) Todays older audience sees Seiji as the audience character because, in modern anime terms, he is. But in the 1973 version Junpei is the audience character since that's who the show was made for - 10 year old boys. That being the case, Seiji characterisation makes sense, since he's basically your dumb older brother who's hanging out with a hot girl who you think is totally out of his league (something something adolecent sexual awakening etc). Personally that's something I really like about the original Cutie Honey: it's presented for an audience who is old enough to recognize the sex appeal of Honey, but not old enough to understand what that means or, more importantly, they they're meant to want to posess her sexually. That allows her a degree of autonomy that female characters often lack in anime (& media in general) because, while she still has to put up with the tedious harassment by male characters, Seiji as the cool older guy trying to "protect" & "wife" her (as though a fighting robot needs him to) is usually mocked for it rather than celebrated. You don't see that often enough. |
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Mosaic
Posts: 75 |
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I still can't agree with this. There are plenty of episodes where Danbei and Junpei don't appear, or only show up briefly. Seiji is very protective of Honey, and tries very hard to help, despite being a weakling. Naojiro was ultimately brought in because they wanted a male character that could hold his own. Other than some serious talks regarding Honey's safety in the last couple of episodes, I haven't seen Seiji contribute much to Universe. In the original he's constantly giving Honey leads on Panther Claw, lending a hand, or giving emotional support. Twice Honey has considered giving up, and even commiting suicide - both times Seiji is the one to help her out of it.
I wouldn't say Universe is the least liked. I think Tears probably has that honor. Universe is probably the least favorable animated version. Everyone sees to like Re: Cutie Honey, which I don't agree with. The characterization of Honey is terrible, and there are a few other things that seem so aburitary to the overall spirit of the series. But, it's Gainax, so people love it. I think it works well as it's own little thing, but I don't really care for it. I'm not a fan of Honey being a ditzy Sailor Moon-wannabe, nor am I a fan of her questionable relationship with cop!Natsuko. |
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Lemonchest
Posts: 1771 |
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Re: Cutie Honey has the bombastic, stick it to the man comedy that Go Nagai was known for & wasn't as prominent in the toei anime, combined with Gainax animation during their "we have all the money & talent" period. Narratively it's just slash fiction that gets Honey & Sister Jill's characters arse backwards for the sake of creating a world where Natsuko lives & also they're lesbians. Then again, Gainax were the embodiment of the generation that discovered you can masturbate to cartoons from shows like Cutie Honey, so it's not that surprising their version of it would go that way.
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Mosaic
Posts: 75 |
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I felt like the humor in Re: was... very Gainax, and not so much Go Nagai. There were a lot of visual throwbacks and references to Go Nagai, but most of the humor was immature Gainax stuff. The episodes in the original series that Tsuji Masaki wrote definitely had Go Nagai's style of humor - in particular episode 22 where Paradise Academy is introduced. Though, New Cutey Honey is the one series that feels like Go Nagai had complete creative control. Flash also does a really good job of referencing Go Nagai stuff, and channeling a lot of his grit, while still remaining pretty and girly.
I don't have a problem with Honey and Natsuko being lesbians, it's just... I really don't like Gainax's version of Natsuko. She's rude, cold, abrasive, and stand offish. They also subdued Honey's abilities and personality to make Natsuko more interesting. They could've found a good dynamic between the two without diminishing Honey. I like cop!Natsuko the best in Cutie Honey a Go Go, honestly. Overall, Re: Cutie Honey had way too much Sailor Moon influence. Honey was more forgiving and caring towards her final enemy, and was very ditzy and food crazed. Sister Jill was portrayed as a sympathetic villain. It's just weird. Flash has the visual influence from Sailor Moon, but that's about it. |
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GeorgeC
Posts: 795 |
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CHU is officially a piece of crap.
I gave it a chance but it just hasn't recovered enough from the stumbling takeoff. Anybody that says this is a great anime series obviously hasn't watched a lot of good anime let alone other Cutie Honey series. It's not written well with the story going in different places and not having much logic, it's joyless, there are otherwise great characters that get utterly dull treatments here (starting with Honey herself!), and the art direction is about as generic as it gets ("speedline battlezone" dimensions?), and (I STRONGLY agree) far too much emphasis on Sister Jill. I'm sorry but every other anime version of Cutie Honey I've seen has better art direction and is much more fun to sit through -- and that includes Cutie "Sailor" Honey Flash! The only Cutie Honey project I've seen that is arguably worse is Cutie Honey: Tears (a VERY generic live-action sci-fi movie) which is Cutie Honey in name only... It's also possibly the only CH project that is even more joyless and depressing (a word that SHOULDN'T be synonymous with Cutie Honey!) than CHU. The 1973 TV series, New Cutie Honey, and Re: Cutie Honey are much better anime series that are at least a joy to watch. They definitely, along with the 2004 live-action film, encapsulate what Cutie Honey is about MUCH better than CHU. The whole thing about perverts and fan service? Seriously, guys? That's Go Nagai's whole shtick! Even his less pervy shows like Maz Z have plenty of fan service. Whether you like this stuff or not is not the point. It's there, like it or not. If you don't, Nagai isn't for you regardless of the project. There are other things going on. Sure, there were a couple of scenes in CHU that I didn't care for, either, but they are NOT the sole reason i have for disliking CHU... It was a misfire on about every artistic front! Multiple actresses playing Honey are one thing, it would have been nice to have ONE actress who actually "owned" the character! The two Cutie Honey projects in anime that stick out for performances are definitely the first two. The 1973 series had THE classic Fujiko Mine actress who so far is the most memorable Cutie Honey actress followed by the 1993 New Cutie Honey performer who also sang the theme song for the first half of the New Cutie Honey series. (That theme wasn't released on the North American edition of New Cutie Honey... The second series opening animation along with the English mix of the song by a different singer was used for all 8 episodes in the ADV release of New Cutie Honey. You can catch the New Cutie Honey first series theme along with the opening animation on YouTube on its own. It's a better, more accurate mix of the theme. The English version was more politically correct which is annoying along with the second opening animation which I didn't like as much as the first New Cutie Honey opening animation credits.) CHU is just a chore to sit through and utterly bland... I haven't watched Episode 10 yet but browsing that description how can you even say this is a Cutie Honey series after reading that?!? I didn't agree with early assessments because I felt the reviewer was judging the show based on preconceptions of Cutie Honey the character but CHU is just written so poorly and the production values are very middle of the road/generic. I gave it to Episode 6 to get better (before making a decision on buy/not buy on home media next year) and even extended to Episode 8 on a last hope but the bottom just fell out after Episode 9 and it's not even necessarily the last major character death that did it for me. The show is just so relentlessly moody, depressing... <Shaking> It's officially joyless. Even bringing back the classic theme song now with a GOOD singer wouldn't save this show! Sentai should be saving their money and not even bothering to dub this series. It'll be a sales dud when they try to sell the discs next year. Hell, they should have re-licensed New Cutie Honey and possibly optioned Re: Cutie Honey or even tested Cutie Honey Flash. CH Flash might have been a decent sales prospect because of the production crossover with the later seasons of Sailor Moon and the "softer approach to CH" but I guess nobody's considered that! Whatever -- money spent on an earlier, better anime project would have been less wasted that it's going to be on CHU. CHU is going to be a sales dud on physical media if they bother with it. It's a darn shame for one of Go Nagai's flagship characters. I predict someone at AX later this month is going to tell Nagai CHU sucks, like it or not, or they'll be uncomfortably tactful about it and wonder why CHU is nothing like the older CH series. It's sure not a series 3/4 of the classic series fans are going to say they like! I'm not a Devilman fan so I can't comment on that latest series but it really looks like Mazinger Z at least got a MUCH better anniversary project than Cutie Honey. The Maz: Infinity liked the characters they worked with. Maz: Infinity was fun and FEELS like the classic series. Heck, Discotek is releasing a later Mazinger Z series that look interesting to me and I'll probably get that along with Mazinger Z: Infinity if it gets offered in the US. I don't know that anybody's optioned Maz: Infinity for home video in North America yet. Viz did the theatrical exhibition of Maz: Infinity which judging by personal experience I guess did NOT go off so well... The movie was fine but nobody knew it was in theaters and Maz Z just isn't that popular in North America. |
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NJ_
 Posts: 3022 Location: Wallington, NJ |
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Except both are Toei titles and Sentai hasn't dealt with those clowns since Ghost Sweeper Mikami and the Clannad film 8 years ago.
Viz has the movie for home video and they have to wait for Japan's disc release, which won't be out until August, because of the typical reverse importation fears. Also Mazinger's popularity or lack of in the US aside, that movie did get screened in more theaters than you would expect because they went with a better theatrical distributor than the idiots who handled the Sailor Moon R movie last year and it was pretty surprising to see Viz go so far with it. |
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