Forum - View topicINTEREST: Cowboy Bebop Writer: Anime Will Die Out in Few Decades
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
garfield15
 Posts: 1517 |
|
|||
Yeah, see this is what I wanted to say but he said it better without having to write an essay. 
|
||||
|
||||
Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
|
|||
Well that was just a singular example. They may have always been few and far between, but they existed with some degree of regularity. Frankly, right now they don't really exist at all, and those that pass off as the thoughtful pieces nowadays pale in comparison. I look at what's come out the past few years and it just feels like the storytelling quality has gone way down and the medium is just loaded with pandering crap that is less about the story and more about promoting merchandise sales and leeching off the success of previous shows while throwing a bone to a few sub-fanbases and fetish groups to ensure greater appeal. I'm not saying all anime will suck in a few short years. I'm simply saying I see where he's coming from and that I also see signs of a slow degradation that may very well collapse the industry as we know it in 20 years time. It all makes sense too with dropping income and fewer people buying, the companies need to make up for the decreases by promoting merchandise more and outsourcing animation to cheaper companies with lower standards out of the country. If he's overreacting I think people here are also overreacting. People are getting suddenly defensive as if he's saying all anime will suck tomorrow. Not at all, he's making a prediction over 20 or more years time based on recent trends. There's always room for change, but that's where he sees the industry heading long term right now and I don't disagree. |
||||
|
||||
Tomibiki
 Posts: 834 |
|
|||
|
a lot of anime sucks these days, but I don't see it dying out as much as I see it becoming something different. Animation can never truly die out unless the entire world suddenly decided they weren't going to watch it anymore. Should the industry probably try and produce quality programming rather than oversaturating the market with waves of copycat scenarios and themes? Totally. Will the anime world lose interest if they don't? Hard to say, there's always a new batch of suckers who'll fall in line for the new thing.
Point being, I don't believe any particular kind of media can disappear it can only transform. Especially in Japan? Sheesh, what else are they gonna watch? Now what I'm seeing here, is that Mr Sato is basically stating that Anime by and large is no longer pushing the envelope. It's become safe, and the studios complacent. No one's really writing the jaw dropping (from my point of view at least) work that actually got a lot of OGs into anime in the first place. He mentioned Ergo Proxy, which I only saw a little of, but it was pretty interesting. Not all projects need to be an Ergo Proxy or a Trigun or a GiTS, but when we're seeing harem show after harem show where we're fed a story about some chump who gets harassed constantly by 4 or 5 little girls (I remember when this just happened to teenaged boys, Tenchi and Ranma set the bar pretty low for it), you kinda start wondering if the industry even takes viewers seriously or if they're just throwing junk against the wall seeing if it sticks. If it doesn't, whatever, if it does, merch blowout. Maybe some people like this, but I think it runs the an unnecessary risk of growing stale. Then again, you're not gonna blame a business for capitalizing on a winning formula until it stops producing the numbers desired. |
||||
|
||||
|
Pippin4242
Posts: 111 |
|
|||
|
Huge props to garfield15. It's not like all the 'classics' came out at the same time. Just... dig a little deeper.
To which end, I'm sick to death of hearing that moe will be the death of anime. Are there seriously people out there who actually WATCHED So-Ra-No-Wo-To who don't think that it contained any good storytelling, that the characters were boring, that it was fanservice-led? It was moe, but it was innovative and well-crafted. Yes, even the outsourced bits. I notice that nobody complains when Korean workshops do all the grunt work on Satoshi Kon's films, for example... it's a matter of budget, and quality control. *~Pips~* |
||||
|
||||
Captain Crotchspike
 Posts: 355 Location: Phoenix, AZ |
|
|||
Okay, I'll bite. Like...what, exactly? And again, I'm not just talking about "good in general", I mean like what he's describing. |
||||
|
||||
|
sjp117
Posts: 12 |
|
|||
|
Probably meant "Anime, the way we know it, will die in a couple of decades"......
|
||||
|
||||
|
maaya
Posts: 976 |
|
|||
|
While I don't agree that there hasn't been any good show apart from Ergo Proxy (which for sure was very good) or Eden of the East. This statement is pretty much spot on:
The majority of anime series nowadays is pure "escapism", or as they call it "emotional healing" (iyashi) for otakus, overworked salary men etc from their hard lives. Nothing bad per se, but the alternatives seem to be getting less and less. And the iyashi-shows seem to be getting more and more the same, without anything to offer for a different kind of audience. And of course, the sponsors are out to make money rather than to "create art". And merchandise sells easier to fanatics ...
I watched the whole thing, and it really wasn't any good imho. It had some potential, some beautiful scenes and ideas (underwater, the legend, the memorial) but most of it was completely left unused. It was not fanservice-led (rather "iyashi"-led), but, yea, the characters were pretty boring and flat imho. And seriously, one episode about a girl trying to go to the toilet (and that is supposed to be cute or funny?) ... I just couldn't believe my eyes >.> |
||||
|
||||
|
Pippin4242
Posts: 111 |
|
|||
|
Yeah, for sure it was flawed. But so are all the really great anime shows. What about that horrible little racist caricature guy who pops up in Trigun? And the filler, and the shaky animation, and the really poor attempts at getting into the extensive and fascinating backstory. A classic is an interesting show with a good premise, and a few years hindsight.
*~Pips~* |
||||
|
||||
|
maaya
Posts: 976 |
|
|||
|
well, tastes differ, but there's really nothing about Sora no Woto that could turn it into a classic for me. Apart from the amazing Opening Song
What I consider really good shows from recent years: Denno Coil, Guardian of the Spirit, Beast Player Erin, Book of Bantorra, Baccano, Bokurano, Skip Beat, Ga-Rei Zero, Michiko & Hatchin, Detroit Metal City, Toradora ... well, not all of them are "deep" and almost no original works. Not too many, but not too bad either for a period of 3-4 years. Maybe not enough considering how many animes are released each year in total (sometimes I really wonder why they would adapt a certain completely average and forgettable series, instead of some of the other amazing mangas or novels that are still out there >< Seriously, why produce an anime Angel Beats, if you already got the better version as a manga out there and it could have been turned into a real masterpiece). |
||||
|
||||
|
k_ozdragon
Posts: 19 |
|
|||
|
I hate the damn commercialism in anime and the stupid repetitive archetypes myself, but even the old stuff was the same. Many writers fell into the pitfalls of copying popular works. As for "many other writers will continue to use the commercialism to further their works;" - let them. All mediums throughout history have had this. It spreads the works to many who have not heard of it before, popularizes it at times; then those people who are willing to learn more about it do so. It's at that time they find the hidden gems that we all eventually find that makes us love this genre.
As for me... if I were a writer and were actually *IN* the industry, I wouldn't have such a foul opinion of it. After all, I *AM* the industry. I would help to define it and make more anime that I feel IS good, anime that ISN'T commercial and fitting into neat categories. If I could influence it in such a major way I would; but I'm a fan that only buys anime... wait I PAY for the damn stuff... hmmmm... so if I don't buy the garbage then what's left for the creators...? Let's face it, if all that's made is garbage then -yes- the industry is dead. HOWEVER, if artists strive for new things, continue to try the groundbreaking things we have seen over the past few years, then YES anime will survive just fine. It just won't be the huge conglomerate it's grown to be over the past 10 years - and to me that's just fine. I'd love to see the artists get paid more money for sure, but it's the ones who continue to try despite the lower wages that pave the ways. Not saying that they *should* have to do that, but if it does die it will always be reborn by diehard purists that were the essence of the community to begin with. Am I afraid that anime will die? Nope. |
||||
|
||||
|
Nimroc
Posts: 5 |
|
|||
|
I wouldn't say that there is less good animes made these days, but rather that they are getting harder to find due to the all the moe, harem, fanservice and carbon copy works getting more commercial attention. ( not saying they are all bad )
The creativity isn't starving, it is drowning. |
||||
|
||||
Ojamajo LimePie
 Posts: 766 |
|
|||
Bwahahahaha!!! You've got to be kidding me! 
I'm sorry for the outburst, but that just struck me as hilarious and completely out of touch with reality. Rappers are at the top of the list of sellouts. |
||||
|
||||
|
k_ozdragon
Posts: 19 |
|
|||
|
Oh btw figure I'd mention I watched Sora No Woto, and I actually liked it. I think it was handicapped by having a shortened time to tell the story, but overall it was good. The problem most Americans have with it is that it was driven by 2 things: characters and symbolism. Both of those things are like Kryptonite to Americans who are not good with: 1. caring about the first fact and - 2. decoding the latter. The "entire episode about a character going piss" was actually meant to show that she wouldn't abandon her duty no matter how "urgent" it may be, along with showing that *nothing* ever happens at their post. It was suppose to emphasize her work ethic along with the pacific state of their base. Idk, I don't really blame the people in the US as much as I do our failing school systems; but that's a whole other story! Just one passing thing to those reading this who think I'm crazy or disagree: try reading *into* things and not take them for face value! The story isn't about what you see, but rather what you can perceive from it. If all you see is a bunch of dumb helpless girls in a domestic situation... well then I feel sorry for you that you couldn't enjoy the story more. Take an English 100 class at your local community college and try again. If that doesn't work, ask your teacher on an "anime night" date with you lol =P
Oh and btw for all you haters, I *am* American - also if you actually understood Sora no Woto but still didn't like it, then you have a right to your opinion and that's respectable; but from what I've seen most of the previous posts didn't give it a fair chance. Also please forgive any errors in my posts, I blame Sierra Nevada & Duchesse de Bourgogne for that! |
||||
|
||||
|
Amethyst Alchemist
Former ANN Editor
 Posts: 312 Location: where it's always a good morning |
|
|||
|
As someone currently living in Tokyo and studying Japanese anime and popular culture in college, I unfortunately have to agree with Sato, pompous as he may be. Even looking at things "straight from the source," the industry doesn't seem as strong as it should be.
Apart from subject matter quality issues, there are many reasons for anime to be dying out that most fans don't seem to realize. One is that anime companies in general are somewhat old-fashioned in some ways. They haven't usually considered really marketing themselves online or overseas too often. Part of the problem is the hierarchical, rigid structure of businesses here. The new, young office worker might realize there's a need for innovative steps in online digital media, but he's culturally unable to approach the middle-aged, powerful men in the company with his ideas because to try to "correct" a superior's ways of thinking is seen as improper. Thus, with it's rather "traditional" ways of thinking about itself, the anime industry has a really hard time moving forward and changing to adapt to new realities. Another problem is that anime companies really don't typically make much profit. There's something called the "Curse of Osamu." When Osamu Tezuka first worked to get anime onto TV he set the bar really low for what anime companies were expected to be paid by TV stations to buy their shows to air. Since then, anime companies have only been able to sell their shows to air for a fraction of what they should be able to. Their only real ways to make money are with DVDs and merchandise. Since the sale of DVDs has drastically decreased in recent years for obvious reasons, it's not surprising they grasp for any means to make a profit they can with heavy merchandising and shows that are conducive to that. And if you talk to people (Japanese or foreign) that are insiders in the industry in Japan, they general concensus is that anime as we know it today will disappear soon.
I'm lucky enough to be part of that summer institute this summer, and some other names involved are Patrick Galbraith (who this article mentions), Roland Kelts ("Japanamerica"), Frederick Schodt (worked with Tezuka), and many academics involved in Japanese pop culture. What they've been saying in general is that, while the industry won't necessarily die out, for example, because fans disseminate shows and their own doujinshi so readily, the anime industry will have to re-envision itself in order to survive. The word "crisis" is becoming frequent in the vocabulary of Japanese anime company employees, and they are starting to realize there must be changes. Like someone mentioned, there are increasing numbers of international ventures and partnerships. It seems part of the way the industry is trying to save itself is by asking for "help" from America. More projects like Afro Samurai are probably on their way. While taking the cliche gloom-and-doom story to extremes doesn't help anyone, it would do the industry a huge favor if more people started adopting Sato's way of thinking in this article. |
||||
|
||||
kgw
 Posts: 1075 Location: Spain, EU |
|
|||
|
... Rap sellouts? In which market? Not mine, not Japan's, AFAIK.
As for what he said, I agree to some extent, and to some extent is "anime is dead since they don't do the things I like". It's quite clear to me that a many anime this days is either awfully written, full of fanservice, or moe-loli-etc fan-oriented, or worse, everything at the same time. But studios are holding to them, because, hey, the smaller the niche is, bigger chances for the anime to get bold. After all, what's a "big success" in anime in Japan? Thousands of copies? |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group