Forum - View topicHey, Santaman! [2006-12-08]
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skaly
Posts: 148 |
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I haven't watched One Piece, so I have no sense of how popular it actually is among anime fans. The 4Kids version was obviously not well received, and because of that our chances of seeing an uncut version down the road have been hurt. There are three examples we can look at. First is Dragonball Z, which became insanely popular, despite editing and rescored music. Because of its popularity, we will be seeing the first season box set, uncut. The second example is Pokemon, also insanely popular, and also getting its own box set. But there has been absolutely no indication of us seeing an uncut, subtitled version. Third is Cardcaptor Sakura... or "Cardcaptors." Unlike with DBZ and Pokemon, this show's story was actually changed to make suitable for young audiences. I don't know how popular this incarnation of the show was, but it apparently had enough of a fanbase to warrant a subtitled, uncut version. I think, out of those three examples, One Piece more closely resembles the Cardcaptors/Cardcaptor Sakura scenario. It's not destined to be as phenominal as DBZ and Pokemon, but it has a loyal fanbase that *would* buy One Piece products *if* they were any good. So I suppose potential distributors need to figure out just how large this fanbase is, and whether or not it warrants a new release. For my part, even though I haven't seen One Piece and the character designs look gawful, at the very least I'd buy the first volume and give it a shot. Speaking of Shonen Jump shows, whatever became of Shaman King? |
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Kamon
Posts: 70 Location: Procrastinating |
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How about Trinity Blood, period? |
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cardcaptormanda
Posts: 237 Location: United States |
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Cardcaptors was actually very unpopular, so unpopular in fact that the edited DVD release was suddenly cancelled at volume 9. The subtitled release was done by a different company altogether. There was a demand for the original, uncut series, but little demand for the butchered version. That does seem to be the same case with One Piece. |
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konohamaru
Posts: 17 Location: the village hidden in the refrigerator |
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Last week's rant started off with:
This weeks quote had this in the opening:
Is it just me or is the simple solution just don't watch it if you don't like it? Are we really that egocentric that we think a medium should change (or be changed- are y'all writin' those letters?) to suit our personal tastes or beliefs? No, I don't feel that children (or others who cannot distinguish between fantasy or reality) should be exposed to massive amounts of violence regardless of its' context, but that's my choice/responsibility as a parent, not a job for the "media police". |
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Intetsu
Posts: 7 |
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The first thing I thought to say was: Anime is produced primarily for another market that doesn't have the same 'moral' and 'social' values... But focusing on the differences is a mistake. Because we really aren't THAT different.
Cultural differences aside, the problems with how people respond to sex and violence is, in my opinion: Because people still think that 'watching violence and sex' can cause a person to be a worse person. I'm not against violence and sex in the Media, I'm for it. Here's why: In a society that accepts that there will be violence (fact of life) and sex (essential to continued life) why should we be so scared that our children will come to understand these things happen? They will need that understanding in life. ( Sadly, We are not in a society that accepts 'sex and violence') Children are raped, abused, beaten, and killed everyday. And we don't even have to leave our own countries (or counties) to find Thousands of examples. Almost every friend I have in my life has been physically, mentally, or sexually abused in one way or another. It's frighteningly common. I'm no exception, my childhood is fraught with horror stories that still affect me into my third decade on this earth. So why am I for violence and sex? It's a release, its fantasy. I can watch Urosokudoji (Legend of the Overfiend) and know that it's not real and laugh when tentacle monsters blow up their intended targets. (Wording that safely for forum was hard) I can read gunslinger girls and say, "good storyline, very creepy, well done." and if I chose to take out of it that training children to be killers is wrong, bravo. But it's always the PERSON not the images that's the problem. A lot of people say, 'Anime is exploiting little girls with panyshots and half-nude/nude scenes...' Sure, I twitch sometimes when I see something that I would consider over-the-top. I have friends who go on and on about the 'evil' of Pikachu (peek-at-you) and 'Pocket Monsters' being something about 'masturbating to indecent images of children'. Well.... Even if the creators intended that... Which they didn't. I'd rather that pedophiles were jerking off to cartoons than trading child exploitation pictures or abusing children. People could argue against violence and death in anime like: 'Grave of the Fireflies' and 'Nausicaa' (which has a lot of violence in it-) or the 'indecent images' in My Neighbor Totoro (the bath scene with their father, completely natural and innocent), but they don't because these things are seen as 'necessary' and 'acceptable' while watching something like 'Strawberry Marshmallow' could be seen as wrong because it's produced for single men. (Which I have seen the first episode of and thought was very cute and well done.) Sexual exploitation does happen, it won't stop anymore than the abuse. But even if you feel its wrong- which actual sexual exploitation is, where do you draw the line? I draw the line at: does it hurt ANYBODY? Did someone get abused to make this? Did someone get tricked into having sex on camera? That is exploitation, that is abuse, and it is wrong. If the only person being hurt is the audience- then the audience needs to turn it off. If you are a parent- you need to turn it off if you don't want your kid to see it. So my point is: If we don't indulge in our fantasies, we might just make them unforgivable realities. Who doesn't fantasize about having a nubile woman or a 'beautiful' boy to be with at least once? Who doesn't fantasize about strangling their teacher, friend, parent, etc- At least once? It's the ability to separate reality from fantasy that WE ALL HAVE that makes this possible- only sociopaths and other seriously mentally unstable people do not have consciousness of right and wrong. TV and 'Media' get blamed for bad parenting and bad behavior. We like saying 'it's TV's fault my kid did this-' 'It's not my fault I did this, I was distraught.' There is no excuse. People need to take accountability and that is a problem with our society in the United States. We don't want to. Because if we did, we might have to look at the real problems in our country and around the world and see we really aren't fixing them. Blaming the media is easy. But it won't fix anything. (Full Disclosure: I'm a parent, an artist, have chronic depression, and I love drawing sex and violence.) Intetsu, the cunning thief. P.S. Sorry it's so long. I will make them smaller in the future. One completely unrelated note: I love Shaman King too. anybody know what's going to happen to it? (good point skaly) |
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Dernhelm
Posts: 76 Location: Southeast Asia |
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most of the time, the news involved of such images with a child carrying those automatic rifles are from third world countries with nasty internal conflicts (kids from South Africa or South America, for example). i don't think you can really blame (if the ranter was) the violence in anime for this, because i don't think they had any access to anime in the first place. with the dire situations they are in, i don't think they have the time or the luxury for something like anime. however, said ranter may have been alluding to the school violence going on lately with kids ambushing their schools and going trigger happy before eventually killing themselves. i never really knew how old or how young those people where, and surely violence in media (be it movies, TV or the flashier cartoons) would have more of a hand in them. but for kids who can get guns at that age, i'm sure they are old enough to know right from wrong, and that what's shown on TV (anime, included) should not always be imitated, or that violence is just a metaphorical tool to explain some valid point (which usually portrays violence in the bad light, in that using it led to your ruin, etc etc). also, it doesn't always apply that: anything that is animated = for kids those seemingly violent shows might actually have been meant for an older and maturer audience. Japan has lots of different genres for anime. and i don't know... i've always seen the use of children as protagonists in violence-ridden shows as the writer or director's way of saying that children are the hope in this whole mess, with those young protagonists usually winning for their causes. Last edited by Dernhelm on Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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I wouldn't want the government babysitting my children, but I do expect the government to provide information that will help me to be a responsible parent and to keep my child from harm's way, and that is completely different. There is nothing wrong with allowing a child to watch Sesame St., or Telly Tubbys. as long as it is of a restricted amount and followed up with active playtime and a storybook read by that parent sometime later. One of us always read to our two when they were infants and toddlers and I still read to my children at 12 and 14, because they still ask me to.
Last edited by Mohawk52 on Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TakinawaTonfa
Posts: 96 |
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[quote="skaly"]
Shaman King ran its full 64 episode series on 4kidsTV. There were only 2 DVD releases of the show (both uncut) which essentially went hand in hand with the Yu-Gi-Oh uncuts. Shaman King wasn't really that popular to begin with though, not even in Japan. |
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Abarenbo Shogun
Posts: 1573 |
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Add Chrono Crusade to the list. Y'know, if they like blondes with guns. |
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ArielTsuki
Posts: 178 |
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[quote="TakinawaTonfa"]
It was popular enough to have 60+ episodes, which incidate it was very much so. It's just it wasn't that popular for a long while after that. I heard the main reason why the DVDs didn't sell because there wasn't really any promotion for them. I wish that they did released the uncut Shaman King. I loved that show (BTW, I saw fansubs of it). (Also, I think that it caught up with the manga by then but it was that popular enough to go through fillers or they decided to end it there. I wonder what happened...)
I said that because it comes to the expectation that the government will fix it when the parent can do it on their own. There is no excuse to not research what your kid is watching/reading these days when you can do a quick research on the internet. Like the parents who protested against Grand Theft Auto, they should've known that GTA wasn't for kids, yet they still buy them and complained to the government about it even after the law that prohibited stores to sell them to underage people and clear warnings on the product. If a parent can't do that, they don't have a right to complain to the government do something about it. And I agree on the negectful parents. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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The World We Know
Posts: 35 Location: Austin, TX |
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Your arguments are all interesting and well thought out. I do disagree with some of them, though. I don't think that blaming the media is a fix - that it certainly isn't - but I know there is some connection. Case in point: We're used to seeing images on the news of child predators (and unfortunately, sometime those who both abused and killed children) being hauled away to jail from their houses. How often is that image teamed with a news report stating that the person had child pornography on their computer? WAY too often. Unfortunately, awful things such as viewing abhorent images can be just a first step. While 99.9% of those who view violence, sex or something totally appalling at home won't go the next step, for some, these things will predicate a further need to satisfy corrupt desires. Our souls always want more than we have. So does media influence society? Yes. Can you blame a death on, say, Grand Theft Auto? I don't think so - but I do think it could be a contributing factor (along with parenting, friends, environment, bodily makeup, etc.). On the other hand, media shows what's happening in society - and a thoughtful comment on society is a good thing. Thus, for this and a variety of reasons, I don't think censorship in the answer. However, for the above reasons, I think that media is something that shouldn't be consumed lightly.
We should tell our kids about reality. They should know what's out there. But how should we reveal these things? That's certainly up for discussion. Though you stated this, I certainly don't believe violence should be accepted. As for sex, I have my own views that aren't necessarily the same as those held by most in this country, and I won't like my children being exposed to certain pieces of media that glorify ideas I find wrong.
I don't agree with this...but its an interesting point. Otherwise, I definitely agree with your writing about responsibility in America. And I'm really sad to see past posts about how "one person can't change the world." Sure we can - but it takes a "bigger than myself" and an unselfish mentality, which we all think we have, but which few of us can break through to. |
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darkhunter
Posts: 2992 Location: Los Angelas |
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Eh, about the One Piece responseby Santaman is the same response i made in the One Piece cancel dub thread yesterday...so I'm glad at least 1 person share the same view as me. Companies will have to be cautious about One Piece (a failed over-price series?), especially being 400+ episode. One Piece's fansize is nothing like DBZ so will enough people buy something like One Piece vol. 58 when a companie release it? Marketing for the show will be very hard with all the bad impression of the butcher tv version. It's just funny that everyone is jumping to conclusion on who's next to get this "mega-hit" title and that their life long dream came true. This just might be the end of One Piece (anime) in the US. Remember what happen to Sailor Moon, another TOEI title, nobody's touching that title anymore.
BTW, the comment about Uncle Bob and Strawberry Marshellow was funny as hell. There's just too many fan that are into these young children fetest. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Most parents have visions that they had been somehow able to change the reallity of abuse and violence in the world by instilling an understanding of kindness, and tolerace toward others that the child will use as a basis of all that they do in their life. There is a bit of truth in the cliché "sins of the father are passed on to the son", or same for mother/daughter. all children learn everything from their elders no matter what position those elders act in. Children who know nothing but violence, grow up to be violent themselves. That is why some parents try to hide things that they themselves had experienced because the influence that experience had on them was not a pleasant one, and affected them through out their life afterwards. Most parents want a better world for their children, better than the world they ended up with. Children will not always understand this and might rebell against it, but then when they become parents themselves, they somehow end up doing exactly the same thing.
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Avatar of Justice
Posts: 36 |
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Blah, anime isn't the only one guilty of this sin. How many fantasy stories written by Americans involve some young kid fighting evil for the sake of the future? If a lot of anime was about someone murdering innocent people and being victorious, I'd have a problem. But if its a good person defeating evil people with violence, where's the issue? That seems to me that it would show young people that being a good person is cool and empowering. People like stories about good versus evil, and having a younger more naive protagonist allows one to convery a purer hero than an older more cynical character.
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