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ANNCast - Time to Make the Doughnuts

You wouldn't argue that it is okay to steal from people wealthier than you just because they have it better. So it's plain wrong to argue that Caucasians or men (or Caucasian men) should not have their current rights defended just because they have it easier than other groups.

All rapes are bad, whether the victim is a man or a woman. All ethnic violence and persecution is bad, no matter what the respective skin colours are of the respective groups. Racism, sexism and all other negative prejudices should not be tolerated no matter who the victims are, and certainly should not be excused based on past behaviour of people who are now long-dead.

History as a mitigating factor doesn't even come into the equation. No-one is responsible for the crimes of their forefathers, so to argue that people are allowed to be jerks to those who had privileged ancestors is plain stupid. Women underwent hundreds of years of persecution just from our Anglo-Saxon culture, so does that mean women now get an equal amount of centuries to persecute men? Of course not, that's ridiculous. Equality and fairness is the key to a healthy, stable society, not tit-for-tat revenge.

This isn't complicated, it's common sense.

Am I the only one who thinks that the fact that we're discussing an analogy between hating moe fans and racism absurd? Hating moe fans is more like hating people who do that stupid 'galloning' thing or Hippies; a little crass at worst.

... All rapes are bad, whether the victim is a man or a woman. All ethnic violence and persecution is bad, no matter what the respective skin colours are of the respective groups. ...

Lots of idiotic Reddit logic being thrown around in here.

I'm not trying to be pushy here, but on a side note, could you please deal with this guy?

Nope, you still don't get it.

Bringing up "well there's racism against whites too!" in every scenario where an act of racism or oppression occurs is a dumb smokescreen thrown up so the people saying it don't have to deal with the fact that racism is still very much a factor in this country, and there are still necessary corrections and rebalances that need to happen to make up for hundreds of years of systematic cultural suppression of the rights and well-being of non-male, non-caucasian groups.

I don't care if people are also mean to moe fans, it has nothing whatsoever to do with them shaming and being dickbags to fujoshi, and bringing it up in a discussion like this is, as I said, just a dumb smokescreen to avoid having to actually discuss what's happening and stick to the topic at hand.

Lots of idiotic Reddit logic being thrown around in here.

I would be stunned if this was actually true, but even if it isn't, people probably aren't throwing things in your face from before you were born. They're throwing things in your face from right now, because really, our society hasn't made as much progress as you seem to think it has.

I'm not going to make the super-moe-otaku's case for them because I don't think it's even relevant to this discussion that sometimes people make fun of them for their obsession - these are largely the most catered-to and privileged class when it comes to anime fans. They dominate message forums everywhere and try their best to control the conversation. [...] I don't care if people are also mean to moe fans, it has nothing whatsoever to do with them shaming and being dickbags to fujoshi, and bringing it up in a discussion like this is, as I said, just a dumb smokescreen to avoid having to actually discuss what's happening and stick to the topic at hand.

Am I the only one who thinks that the fact that we're discussing an analogy between hating moe fans and racism absurd? Hating moe fans is more like hating people who do that stupid 'galloning' thing or Hippies; a little crass at worst.

Timeenforceranubis wrote:

Chagen46 wrote: Yes. That's like asking why women get to rail against misogyny but men don't get to rail against "misandry"--the former is FAR more common and ingrained into the culture than the latter (assuming the latter even exists) Except surrounding the fujoshi/moé fan hostility, there's the bigger context of general hostility within the fandom, and I'm sorry, but, in the words of Dr. King, "An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." You can't just declare something negligible because you think it's negligible. Just like fujoshi and people like Zac are pissed that there's so much hostility toward fujoshi (As they rightfully should be), moé fans are pissed about the hostility toward moé fans, and that's also something anyone who's against hostility in the anime community should also be pissed about.

"If you're railing against racism toward black people, why aren't you also railing against racism toward white people?" This is what you're basically arguing.

And the answer is "because that creates the illusion that somehow the two are equal in size, measure, cultural context and relevance, muddies the conversation and offers those looking to apologize or defend the nastiness aimed at fujoshi an excuse to do so." I'm not going to make the super-moe-otaku's case for them because I don't think it's even relevant to this discussion that sometimes people make fun of them for their obsession - these are largely the most catered-to and privileged class when it comes to anime fans. They dominate message forums everywhere and try their best to control the conversation. The content that gets produced now is largely aimed at pleasing them and their specific tastes. People mocking them isn't the same as that same privileged group ostracizing a smaller minority of fans that's largely composed of an already systemically and culturally oppressed class, women.

In short, when a bunch of privileged guys who get everything they want and generally control the discussion have a few rocks thrown at them, it doesn't concern me. When that group of privileged guys starts throwing rocks at a smaller minority of fans simply because for once they're actually getting what they want, it's offensive and worth speaking up about.

Also given that you operate this page: http://sheslostcontrol.net/moe/ It's a little hard to take your equivalency fallacies seriously.

Hate to say it, but I was actually kind of interested the guys talking about their taxes (I cringed when Zac said he has a "box of receipts" that is apparently only dealt with annually), but yeah, personal finances are probably not something you want to be broadcasting to a mass audience.

invalidname wrote:

Hate to say it, but I was actually kind of interested the guys talking about their taxes (I cringed when Zac said he has a "box of receipts" that is apparently only dealt with annually), but yeah, personal finances are probably not something you want to be broadcasting to a mass audience.

Ya do not get me started on mine which I really need to start dealing with a lot more...

Hate to say it, but I was actually kind of interested the guys talking about their taxes (I cringed when Zac said he has a "box of receipts" that is apparently only dealt with annually), but yeah, personal finances are probably not something you want to be broadcasting to a mass audience.