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Xorasor
Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:20 pm
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| Apollo-kun wrote: | | Hypocrisy? What part of what I said was hypocritical, again? I'm simply pointing out that both sides are being downright moronic about this silly little show. |
It wasn't about the show, or being tired of discussion about sexism involved vis a vis the show's reception, fan base, etc. that I felt you were being hypocritical about. All that is fair and understandable.
It felt like you were complaining about the arguments about sexism that had continually popped up on ANN lately, and then proceeded to do pretty much everything that would create another one (spending multiple paragraphs solely devoted to the offhand statement, mocking Chagen by both questioning his motives for bringing the statement up and then mocking the idea that his claim could ever have any veracity in the first place, and then imply that you feel he is employing misandry).
| Apollo-kun wrote: | | Sorry if I come across as bitter, but when all anybody seems capable of talking about lately is this series that isn't even out yet, it starts to make me irritable. I realize I came across as a bit of a baby, and for that, I'm sorry. |
*Shrug* Not that big a deal, just saw that and must admit thought the whole thing was rather humorous. Let's just move on.
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musouka
Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 707
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Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 3:47 pm
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Since someone else bumped the post (to make a whiny appeal to Stop Talking About Things when he could just as easily Stop Reading About Things) I wanted to point this out.
| lostrune wrote: | 100 seller spaces is not very much interest when those "what they've got" shows have seller spaces in the thousands per doujinshi event.  |
One hundred spaces is about on par with an average Studio You "[series] only event". Even just looking at their site, so called "heavy hitters" like Hetalia and Yu-gi-oh only get two hundred spaces. (The mega-popular Inazuma Eleven gets five hundred.) A hundred isn't bad at all for something that hasn't aired yet. It's the same as their UtaPuri event, for example.
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Chagen46
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
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Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 4:22 pm
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Well, Apollo-Kun, you see--
| Quote: | | I MIGHT go a step further and say that you're being downright misandric |
NOPE
I don't debate with people I disagree with politically who believe that misandry exists when it's a fiction made up by their whiny minds.
But by the way:
| Quote: | | Patriarchy is literally the most cop-out excuse in an argument about sexism, and saying that things are exclusively because of it is logic best fit for a kindergartner. |
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Essay:The_Most_Common_Misogynistic_Tactics#Stop_Using_Buzzwords
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Apollo-kun
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1213
Location: City 7, Macross 7
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Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 6:19 pm
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| Chagen46 wrote: | Well, Apollo-Kun, you see--
| Quote: | | I MIGHT go a step further and say that you're being downright misandric |
NOPE
I don't debate with people I disagree with politically who believe that misandry exists when it's a fiction made up by their whiny minds.
But by the way:
| Quote: | | Patriarchy is literally the most cop-out excuse in an argument about sexism, and saying that things are exclusively because of it is logic best fit for a kindergartner. |
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Essay:The_Most_Common_Misogynistic_Tactics#Stop_Using_Buzzwords |
I don't believe that misandry is a problem, per se, that is prevalent in our society. That type of men's rights tripe is downright ridiculous to me, and I don't support it.
That being said, I do think women who view men as inferior and treat them as objects do exist, and the only term that I can label that with is misandry. It's not a widespread epidemic, like so many ill-informed people on Reddit contend, but I do think that it exists in isolated cases. Saying that it doesn't is turning a blind eye.
As for the wiki link you sent me, I knew what patriarchy was to begin with. I've done much more than "10 minutes of research" on it, and I do think that some further explanation on your part would be beneficial. For example, instead of "this happens because patriarchy", you could point to Japan's skewed gender dynamics, the disturbing trend of lashing against female anime fans, etc, etc. I think that patriarchy was just too vague of a term to defend your position.
That being said, if you genuinely and wholeheartedly believe that to be the one and only contributing factor to the plight of female anime fandom, then more power to you. But I'm not going to casually lie back and let you accuse me of sexism, especially those infantile misogynists who advocate for "Men's Rights", when the problem with the world today is that men have too many rights (as a man, that's something I hate to admit, but its true; men have it too well off, in my opinion.)
I'm sorry if I came across as an a person I disagree with politically, because nothing could be further from the truth. I doubt I'd be friends with any of the people I am if I was...
EDIT: Also, thanks for that wiki link. As a writer, it's really cool to have such a big database on topics that I care about at my disposal.
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Chagen46
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
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Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 7:22 pm
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I'm sory fo presuming, but "misandry" is a dog whistle used by people I disagree with politically and after a while of debating with them it becomes a habit.
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Apollo-kun
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1213
Location: City 7, Macross 7
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Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 7:29 pm
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| Chagen46 wrote: | | I'm sory fo presuming, but "misandry" is a dog whistle used by people I disagree with politically and after a while of debating with them it becomes a habit. |
That's alright. I'm sorry for lacking an expansive enough vernacular to try and convey whaT I was attempting to say. I had no intention of belittling your point, and I'm sorry if it seemed like I was trying to. I totally agree that female anime fans are subjugated into smaller and smaller niches; I guess I would like more of your insight into why that is?
I realize I was being flippant and rude to begin with, and I sincerely apologize. Bad day.
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BonusStage
Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Posts: 307
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:01 am
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| Chagen46 wrote: | | I don't debate with people I disagree with politically who believe that misandry exists when it's a fiction made up by their whiny minds. |
 Can I ask how old you are? Have you never heard of people like Valerie Solanas and Andrea Dworkin? Hatred goes both ways and saying misandry doesn't exist is ignorant. One race or gender is not excluded from being hated. there's bigots for everything out there. Please stop giving people who consider themselves also feminists bad reputations with this kind of talk. I would appreciate it.
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Hamu
Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 62
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:18 am
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| BonusStage wrote: |
| Chagen46 wrote: | | I don't debate with people I disagree with politically who believe that misandry exists when it's a fiction made up by their whiny minds. |
Can I ask how old you are? Have you never heard of people like Valerie Solanas and Andrea Dworkin? Hatred goes both ways and saying misandry doesn't exist is ignorant. One race or gender is not excluded from being hated. there's bigots for everything out there. Please stop giving people who consider themselves also feminists bad reputations with this kind of talk. I would appreciate it. |
Well said. 100% agree.
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Chagen46
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:06 am
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| BonusStage wrote: |
| Chagen46 wrote: | | I don't debate with people I disagree with politically who believe that misandry exists when it's a fiction made up by their whiny minds. |
Can I ask how old you are? Have you never heard of people like Valerie Solanas and Andrea Dworkin? Hatred goes both ways and saying misandry doesn't exist is ignorant. One race or gender is not excluded from being hated. there's bigots for everything out there. Please stop giving people who consider themselves also feminists bad reputations with this kind of talk. I would appreciate it. |
They are one-off wackjobs. Stop using them to slander all feminists. Misandry as people I disagree with politically define it is this massive feminist conspiracy to murder all men that all women are a part of. Second, Misandry cannot exist by default, as it requires the hater to be above the hated in status and class in society.
Also: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Essay:The_Most_Common_Misogynistic_Tactics#See.2C_All_Feminists_Are_Assholes
Wow, I'm glad I wrote this article. 17, by the way.
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Xorasor
Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 6
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:16 am
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Well, if you guys REALLY want to get into this...
| BonusStage wrote: |
Can I ask how old you are? |
The heck does his age have to do with anything, unless you're setting up for an ad-hominem?
| BonusStage wrote: | | Have you never heard of people like Valerie Solanas and Andrea Dworkin? Hatred goes both ways and saying misandry doesn't exist is ignorant. One race or gender is not excluded from being hated. there's bigots for everything out there. |
So we're going to commit an equivocation fallacy, based off the actions of radicals that are dismissed among the entire mainstream feminist community (although I have to ask: have you actually read anything Dworkin has written, or are we talking about Straw Dworkin here?), and people that are a sad case study in how horrible, horrific backgrounds can lead to mental problems and instability; who happen to also be feminists.
If you want, I can start listing off prominent/respected misogynists. We'll kind of be here a while though.
EDIT: Bah, Chagen beat me to it.
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Polycell
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:31 am
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| Xorasor wrote: | | The heck does his age have to do with anything, unless you're setting up for an ad-hominem? |
Age can explain immaturity. It also gives a nice chance to point out somebody needs to start acting like a grownup if the second digit's not too low.
| Quote: | | So we're going to commit an equivocation fallacy, based off the actions of radicals that are dismissed among the entire mainstream feminist community (although I have to ask: have you actually read anything Dworkin has written, or are we talking about Straw Dworkin here?), and people that are a sad case study in how horrible, horrific backgrounds can lead to mental problems and instability; who happen to also be feminists.
If you want, I can start listing off prominent/respected misogynists. We'll kind of be here a while though. |
You're missing the point by a country mile: Chagen denied misandry existed; they serve to prove it does.
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Chagen46
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:14 pm
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Misandry, as an institutionalized cultural practice equivalent to misogyny, does not and cannot exist.
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Polycell
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:06 pm
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| Chagen46 wrote: | | cannot exist. |
And to recover from one misandry-related faux pas he makes a misandric statement. I wonder if his blatant refusal to admit the female brain works in the same exact way as the male one can be read to be misogynistic on top...
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musouka
Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 707
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:10 pm
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| Polycell wrote: | | And to recover from one misandry-related faux pas he makes a misandric statement. I wonder if his blatant refusal to admit the female brain works in the same exact way as the male one can be read to be misogynistic on top... |
It has nothing to do with the idea that women cannot be prejudiced against men--they can--and everything to do with the idea of the effect any such prejudice would have. Which is pretty much zip, except for your hurt feelings.
In other words, we can talk about misandry when women are in a higher place of sociological power than men, and can impact their lives negatively with the force of that hatred on a societal level.
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danilo07
Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 1580
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Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:16 pm
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| Polycell wrote: |
| Chagen46 wrote: | | cannot exist. |
And to recover from one misandry-related faux pas he makes a misandric statement. I wonder if his blatant refusal to admit the female brain works in the same exact way as the male one can be read to be misogynistic on top... |
You are wrongly interpreting him.Yes some women hate men,that is undeniable,however it seems sociologists these only define sexism and racism based on unprivileged and privileged groups.For example,racism against white people is impossible since white people are institutionally privileged group,it is the same with sexism.Though really Chagen46 is not a sociologist,so he should stop using this definition in his own way.It is quite irritating actually.
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