Forum - View topicANNCast - Dork the Halls
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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He didn't talk about turning off desires, he talked about not having them. If someone has internalized the idea that sexual desire for children is wrong, I think it's safe to argue that the desire simply won't form. And whether such a person can be lolicon depends on how much he likens lolis to children. This is where your analogy with breasts fails. Anime breasts are idealized versions of real life breasts. Lolis are not necessarily idealized versions of real life children, just some traits (both visual and behavioural) that lolicons want to see in people in general. We can resist desires too. Let's say you want to punch a person, but don't. You might think that it's wrong to punch a person (internal morals), you think that this is not how a person should behave (external morals), you realize that this person will be hurt (empathy), you might get beat up or a cop is around (fear), you understand that nothing has happened to warrant a punch (reasoning). It may be harder to resist persistent desires than impulsive ones, but doesn't mean it can't be done. So even if a lolicon has an attraction to real life children as well at best you could condemn this person for baiting himself. Also Merry Christmas! |
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Dreg
Posts: 12 |
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Great show, you guys!
I would disagree that Tomokoe doesn't try to improve her life in Watanabe, though. She tries a lot of things to improve her life, it's just that they were all the wrong things. As adults, we know that therapy, empathy, and personal hygiene were the real solutions to her problems; however, the show makes it pretty clear that she believes impulsive behavior such as spraying soda on her face, working at a bakery, and forming a club without any kind of mission statement or purpose were the solutions to her problems. She works to achieve the same goal the audience desires of her; however she does not have the maturity to know the proper strategy for it. I can relate to this as well, since I used to believe that if I was good at a sport I showed no natural talent or interest in, I would be popular as well. I also think there is a strong positive current in the show that underlies the more visible frustration and failures of the main character. Through the supporting cast, we see that the world is full of people who will be there for her no matter what, from her best friend that she secretly resents, to her parents who give her both space and discipline in equal measure. Even those that lose a certain amount of respect for her, such as her cousin, are quick to show that they will always love and care for her. Not only that, but we see the kindness she receives from total strangers such as the boy who gave her the umbrella and the upperclassman who gave her a hug. All this kind of adds to the "it doesn't really matter" we receive at the series' end. I think, as an audience, we can see that the world is not the cold and heartless place she believes it to be, and that she has caring people in her life which she is becoming better at noticing over the course of the series. And those are the true victories for the protagonist. When she remembers how close she used to be with her brother. When she takes a break from her own self-pity to comfort her best friend. When she learns to enjoy little moments with the people she's with instead of the people she wants to be with. They're not huge gamechangers or anything, but they're there. |
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StudioToledo
 Posts: 847 Location: Toledo, U.S.A. |
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Glad to hear I don't have to waste money on the Hobbit films.
Thinking of what could have been, this came to mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBnVL1Y2src |
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Mad_Scientist
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 3011 |
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If you completely ignore medical research and science regarding pedophilia, you can argue that. Kind of hard to argue it otherwise though.
Again with this nonsense. Sorry, loli anime characters are in fact drawings of children. Or drawing of characters that look a bit like children but are actually 1,000 year old vampires or whatever. This is blatantly obvious, no matter how much you or others try to ignore it. There are of course differences, which is why I do acknowledge that not everyone attracted to one will be attracted to the other, but it's pretty clear there is some overlap.
I never argued that people can't resist desires. But the argument that a pedophile shouldn't be condemned for having desires he didn't choose as long as he doesn't act on them is completely different from the argument that a loli anime fan shouldn't be condemned because he's not actually a pedophile. Also, didn't you just say earlier in your post that anyone who is a pedophile is someone who never internalized the idea that sexual desires for children is wrong? If that were actually true for all of them(it's not) then that would be plenty to condemn them for.
Merry Christmas! Though it seems a bit weird to suddenly bring that up in this discussion. |
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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@Mad_Scientist
The cause of pedophilia is unknown apart from some correlations, but since many researchers believe it's a sexual orientation I will take back my musings about that as uninformed.
I said "not neccessarily" children. I don't think of them much like children at all after considering a bit, though the first impression is definitely that of a child, and I don't think there's any doubt that it's the basis for the archetype. But the argument is that a pedophile is attracted to a child, lolicon is attracted to a set of manufactured traits, many of whom involve neoteny. So loli anime characters are in fact drawings of lolis. They have some similarities with children and some traits that have nothing to do with how most children I've ever met look or act. Pedophiles will of course focus on the similarities, there's the overlap and no one's denying it here. Whether it classifies as a "connection" in the context of this discussion is a semantic question, because the main point was criticising the idea that lolicons are inevitably attracted to children. It would be more precise to say that pedophiles might be attracted to lolis.
There's no contradiction because when the desire to punch someone arises, you may not think of the other one as a person, so an internalized "punching a person is wrong" wouldn't kick in. Yes, this wouldn't work in the case of pedophilia since it is inherently an attraction to children, but I simply listed all the ways I could think of how one can stop himself (consciously or not). P.S. I said Merry Christmas, because this is a [sarcasm]wonderful[/sarcasm] topic for it. Not that I don't wish it for you. |
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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double post
Last edited by jl07045 on Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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varmintx
 Posts: 1204 Location: Covington, KY |
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Utterly off-topic, but where are the usual "Christmas: Anime-Style" articles?
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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This one was posted yesterday. I have not noticed any others. |
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varmintx
Posts: 1204 Location: Covington, KY |
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caragnafog dog
Posts: 5 |
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Nevermind.
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