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Five Steps to Better Fanservice


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Sharkacon



Joined: 20 Jul 2015
Posts: 28
Location: The Glendeasy, AZ
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:26 pm Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
I do find myself rolling my eyes at a lot of fanservice actually, Isuca as an example had me super annoyed by a number of problems that it lent too hard on fanservice while kind of making a mess. It felt like High School of the Dead was the start of some shows that kind of took it a gross way that things just did not feel natural.

I am kind of interested for what Shimoneta might mean for the topic, I started off kind of annoyed, but I ended up thinking that there was a real point to how confrontational things were. What does a woman wearing panties on her head even mean?

I couldn't watch Isuca past the first few episodes. There was nothing original about it. It felt like they added nudity because it sells, put in a busty nekomata because it sells, made the MC live with a tsundere because that sells, made the main heroine a generic tsundere with no redeeming quality because... Well, you get the point. Nothing original, just action packed with tropes. Not my cup of tea. I remember it as being fairly well drawn, though, so I guess it had that going for it.

Shimoneta, on the other hand, I'm loving. The theme seems like an excuse to pack a show with fanservice and dick jokes, but it's not bashful about it, and there's a good deal of meta-humor at work. I can watch it when I want to veg out and not have to think too deeply about it, but still appreciate the show's commentary on itself and censorship.
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Ahirue



Joined: 15 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:24 pm Reply with quote
Free! and Kill la Kill are probably my favorites in terms of fanservice, although in KlK the stuff with Satsuki and her spoiler[mother, Ragyo,] really grossed me out. And I agree with what some people have been saying that if it's balanced with well-executed humor and story, and attractive art, I'm fine with most fanservice, and there's certainly some that suits my tastes enough for me to enjoy it.

I admit, I often feel conflicted about well-designed skimpy and/or revealing outfits on female characters. On the one hand, I object to the principle of the things, but on the other, some of them look really good...!

Clearly we need more male characters in flattering, well-designed skimpy outfits, too, so I can feel less guilty about enjoying girls in outfits that have more belts than fabric. Laughing
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nobahn
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:09 pm Reply with quote
^
I completely concur; you have exactly summed up my conflicted feelings on the matter.
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:37 pm Reply with quote
Unfortunately for me one of the big problems for me when it comes to fanservice in anime (other then being an adult gay male attracted to other adult men, and thus vastly under-represented), is that I just don't find anime characters attractive at all.

As an art-lover I can appreciate a well-designed character, but sexual attraction? Nothing whatsoever. A little classy sultriness or sensuality can spice things up nicely, but I tend to find anything more then that a distraction at best.

I mean...when I kind of break it down in my head, a lot of anime characters look about as sexually attractive as erotic cave paintings. Look at that picture form Free! in the article. The way the guys chest and rips are drawn just look...wrong to me. I keep imagining that they're bodies can like...fold into themselves vertically to compact themselves like a robot.
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nobahn
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:08 pm Reply with quote
^
That's very interesting; may I trouble you to link/show images (anime and safe for work, if that's possible) that you find erotic?
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:46 pm Reply with quote
nobahn wrote:
^
That's very interesting; may I trouble you to link/show images (anime and safe for work, if that's possible) that you find erotic?


Oh my. I honestly think that I'm a bit too shy for that Embarassed

If I could think of anything at the top of my head (and I use the term "find erotic very loosely) it's Berserk, if only for the more realistic proportions on characters and having a (albeit straight) sex scene that I think is genuinely well drawn and structured. So I guess it's not something that I find erotic but really appreciate in an artistic sense I suppose?

I guess on the gay side...well I guess I just have to mention Gengoroh Tagame, who I do have some appreciation for most of the same reasons. Sure his men tend toward closer to what I actually find attractive in real life, but even then I just think he's a good artist who know how to make 2D sex look sexy, even when he goes to...extremes.

Don't know if any of that helps, but I think it's really cool of you for wanting to understand.
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Hyperdrve



Joined: 03 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:37 pm Reply with quote
Part of what distinguishes anime from other artistic mediums is how it can approach fanservice. When it comes to (non-superhero) character creation, I don't think there's another medium that can outdo it. I think anime over its lifetime has evolved to a point where it's made character creation into a social science. So in some ways fanservice can also be a way for an anime to flex its muscles.
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Kadmos1



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:02 am Reply with quote
SilverTalon01, I would rather have an adult male because at least the harem guy actually has a guy's voice. However, some male seiyuu can pull off the teen voice (Mamoru Miyano, for instance). Unless they meet the requirements I mentioned or they have boyish/androgynous voice like the Japanese Naruto, I feel that the female voice is really distracting and unnatural to use for a guy. Heck, I feel that the director/creator did a casting mistake if they did such a decision of having a women do a harem guy's voice.
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Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:10 am Reply with quote
Years ago I picked up the first few volumes of the Dance in the Vampire Bund manga and I honestly really enjoyed the story...but there's only so much nearly naked vampire loli I can take...or risk being seen reading or watching.

Then there's Gunslinger Girl, which I would feel a lot more comfortable with if it were entirely about cyberized child soldiers, (complete with the existence of Gunslinger Boys) and had no fanservice intent. The fact that there seems to be a significant titillation intent bothers me. I hope I don't get into trouble for saying that if a show starring moe loli girls has a fanservice intent, it can be a real impediment to enjoying it. But at first glance, it can be hard telling the difference between a show with cute little girls in it and a show with cute little girls which the camera will ogle--especially when both shows have bath scenes and beach episodes.
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Kadmos1



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:29 am Reply with quote
Another form is when they have intertextuality examples. That is, a show like Lucky Star shows allusions or references to another series.
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shawnji_us



Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:07 am Reply with quote
Maybe it's because I started watching anime in the late 80's and early 90's, but I've lost a lot of interest in anime over the past several years due to what, I feel, is an over-prevalence of fan-service shows. I lived in Japan for six years of my life, and five of those were as a married man, so that may have something to do with it as well, I don't know.

You might be tempted to say I'm a prude, but I actually enjoy anime pornography (provided it's not all rapey), so I don't think that's the case. I guess it's just that when I sit down to watch something as entertainment, I have no interest in attempts to titilate unless they service the plot (and even then, I can usually find a good argument against them). This is why I can't watch Game of Thrones, and people around the water-cooler look at me like I must be from Neptune.

The last show that had any nudity in it that I remember genuinely enjoying for its characters in spite of it was Video Girl Ai. I was also in my late teens at the time, and unrequited love was definitely a topic that hit home for me.

I grew up watching edited-for-TV stuff like Robotech, Sailor Moon, Dragon Ball Z, and a bunch of films on Sci-fi; and it was my aunts that got me into those shows, who often avoided fan-servicey stuff themselves. I think Tenchi Muyo and Love Hina were the only harem shows I ever watched, and the romantic aspects were what hooked me, but I've since grown out of both of those completely; although I still love the Tenchi movie about how his parents met. I revisit that every now and again.

I really only started buying anime myself with Slayers on VHS, and the fanservice there bothered me a bit too, despite how incredibly tame and tongue-in-cheek it often was. My next purchases were films like Akira (due to my previous exposure on Sci-fi), Urusei Yatsura 2: Beautiful Dreamer (ditto), Robot Carnival (yup, still have my Streamline VHS), Yu Yu Hakusho: The Movie (the pre-Funimation one), etc...

As DVDs became popular, my first shows were Cowboy Bebop and Trigun. I got into stuff like Hellsing briefly, but I eventually stopped caring for over-the-top violence too at some point. I watched Eva (Rahxephon's way better) with some friends, along with Golden Boy, FMP: Fumoffu, and some others I wasn't extremely keen to own myself, but kind of tolerated and even chuckled a bit at. Steel Angel Kurumi and Chobits were probably the most risque things I ever sat through with friends.

No, what caught my attention more was stuff that my friends didn't care for much, and many people have already named throughout this thread. I got into Serial Experiments Lain, Boogiepop Phantom, Please Save My Earth, Kare Kano, Planetes, Master Keaton, Monster, Kino's Journey, Mushishi, and others. I did find some enjoyment from Shonen shows like Hajime no Ippo (I guess I'm slightly hypocritical when it comes to dick jokes, maybe because you get used to that kind of "locker-room humor" as a guy) and One Piece (until the fan-service got too over-the-top), but overall I liked stuff that was a little deeper and largely avoided fanservice altogether. I oddly really enjoyed sports anime for a time, like the aforementioned Ippo and others like Princess Nine and Initial D (if that counts).

For several years, I didn't watch anime at all because I thought it wasn't worth digging through all the harem shows to maybe find one show with substance, but Attack on Titan's popularity in Japan while I was living there piqued my interest enough to check it out, and I concluded it wasn't half-bad. Most recently, the buzz around Madoka Magica made me finally watch it against my pre-concieved notions of it looking, "like pandering drivel," I think was my exact wording. I was completely absorbed by it despite almost quitting after episode one. It's the best thing I've seen recently, but now I'm sort of in a lull of not finding anything interesting again.

I guess it's a weird position to have, and I'm definitely not saying anyone is wrong for enjoying what they enjoy, but I tend to be of a mind that I like my titilation kept to pornography and out of my narrative-driven storylines. If I'm really hung up on a character, maybe I'll dig up some sexy fan-art outside of the context of the show, but that's probably the extent of it and it usually has to do more with their personality being what turns me on. I just have a very gutteral reaction to shows with huge boobs or a "moe" look that make me almost immediately disregard them as uninteresting fluff.
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Sharkacon



Joined: 20 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:30 am Reply with quote
Shenl742 wrote:
I keep imagining that they're bodies can like...fold into themselves vertically to compact themselves like a robot.
Man, I'd definitely watch that show. Laughing

As for finding the drawings sexually attractive, I can't say that's why I like fanservice. You know that cliche anime character who hates 'real girls', because, "2D girls are the best!"? Yeah, I can't help but feel sad for the guy (unless it's Nijigen from Golden Time, because that dude's awesome). The girls (and guys) don't look realistic, even when the art is fantastic. Good fanservice in anime (for me, at least) has a lot to do with the scenario being portrayed. It's more like PG-13 phone sex than PG-13 porn.

That's most likely why I don't seem to notice a lot of the fanservice some people complain about, or I intentionally ignore it. A random panty shot because a girl bumped into the MC in the hallway and fell does absolutely nothing to enhance or detract from the anime for me. Whereas a passionate on-screen kiss, with no overt skin shown, can leave me hot and bothered.
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Jose Cruz



Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 1778
Location: South America
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:43 pm Reply with quote
Model of well done fanservice?

Strike Witches, of course! I enjoyed it as simultanouesly social criticism of fan-service present in Japanese pop culture and a touch of subtle comedy as it looks like the camera itself is clearly trying to mess up with the show. It might not be the fact that the creators intentions were those though.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

shawnji_us wrote:
As DVDs became popular, my first shows were Cowboy Bebop and Trigun. I got into stuff like Hellsing briefly, but I eventually stopped caring for over-the-top violence too at some point. I watched Eva (Rahxephon's way better) with some friends, along with Golden Boy, FMP: Fumoffu, and some others I wasn't extremely keen to own myself, but kind of tolerated and even chuckled a bit at. Steel Angel Kurumi and Chobits were probably the most risque things I ever sat through with friends.

No, what caught my attention more was stuff that my friends didn't care for much, and many people have already named throughout this thread. I got into Serial Experiments Lain, Boogiepop Phantom, Please Save My Earth, Kare Kano, Planetes, Master Keaton, Monster, Kino's Journey, Mushishi, and others. I did find some enjoyment from Shonen shows like Hajime no Ippo (I guess I'm slightly hypocritical when it comes to dick jokes, maybe because you get used to that kind of "locker-room humor" as a guy) and One Piece (until the fan-service got too over-the-top), but overall I liked stuff that was a little deeper and largely avoided fanservice altogether. I oddly really enjoyed sports anime for a time, like the aforementioned Ippo and others like Princess Nine and Initial D (if that counts).

For several years, I didn't watch anime at all because I thought it wasn't worth digging through all the harem shows to maybe find one show with substance, but Attack on Titan's popularity in Japan while I was living there piqued my interest enough to check it out, and I concluded it wasn't half-bad. Most recently, the buzz around Madoka Magica made me finally watch it against my pre-concieved notions of it looking, "like pandering drivel," I think was my exact wording. I was completely absorbed by it despite almost quitting after episode one. It's the best thing I've seen recently, but now I'm sort of in a lull of not finding anything interesting again.


Try reading manga like Vinland Saga. There are like 10 times more hours of fun reading great manga than great anime. Also you could use information provided on internet forums and blogs featuring lists of great anime to watch. I think a good way to find out good anime to watch is to see which are the most popular series at the moment by the volume of discussion in their respective threads.

Among titles released after 2011 that are great and don't feature any fanservice I would add: films like The Wind Rises, Tale of Princess Kaguyahime and When Marnie was There. Series like Ping Pong the Animation, Shirobako, Barakamon, Eccentric Family and Space Battleship Yamato 2199 (it has a little fanservice though if you consider the skin tight suits of the female crew of the starship). There is just so many great anime that don't use fanservice at all.

Hyperdrve wrote:
Part of what distinguishes anime from other artistic mediums is how it can approach fanservice. When it comes to (non-superhero) character creation, I don't think there's another medium that can outdo it. I think anime over its lifetime has evolved to a point where it's made character creation into a social science. So in some ways fanservice can also be a way for an anime to flex its muscles.


How about manga? Razz Well, in both cases the reason why fanservice is more developed in manga/anime is that since it is drawn you can make anything in our imagination. Also, western animation/comics don't do that because they still have repressed sexuality in the sense that westerners in general cannot allow themselves to feel the pleasure of stylized designs. Because if you think about it, some erotic manga character designs are almost "optimally" designed for maximum stimulation for the male brain.


{Combined serial posts. ~nobahn}
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:39 pm Reply with quote
Najica Blitz Tactics Now there was pointless fanservice.
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Agent355



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:32 pm Reply with quote
Jose Cruz wrote:

Also, western animation/comics don't do that because they still have repressed sexuality in the sense that westerners in general cannot allow themselves to feel the pleasure of stylized designs. Because if you think about it, some erotic manga character designs are almost "optimally" designed for maximum stimulation for the male brain.

Have you seen western comics lately? They're full of cheesecake & beefcake shots! And they're only getting more racy, with comics like Sex Criminals
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