Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Isn't Gundam Bigger In America?
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louis6578
 Posts: 1866 |
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I agree completely. In fact, I feel as though Gundam has too many mech fights (crazy, right?). There are times when fights happen that don't add anything. Main characters from both sides end up okay, with only supporting characters dying. These fights don't develop the characters. If a Gundam anime like Zeta or 0079 was shortened to 26 episodes, I think it'd manage if it removed the fluff. Fate/Zero is all about the battle royal and the people fighting in it, but each fight adds something. The fight at the docks injured Saber's arm for a while, Kiritsugu permanently damaged Kayneth in their fight, etc. The sad thing about this is that the actual PLOT of the Universal Century Gundams is well-written and realistic. It gets bogged down by unneeded arcs and repetitive fluff. That said, Gundam 00 was well-paced in its first season, so maybe they learned their lesson. I haven't seen many AU Gundam series as of yet. |
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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Gundam is a meta franchise, therefore you can like one chapter and hate all the others. It's like Final Fantasy in a certain sense. You can certainly play one chapter without caring for the others. Only die hard Gundam fans, and reviewers on websites (including this one) will tell you how you cannot watch one Gundam without exploring all the other things of the franchise. Of course you can, Gundam series are written so you can watch them without knowing the ins and outs of over 40 years of Gundam productions that span tv series, oav series, videogames, and manga. You really think modern Japanese audiences (teenagers) immerse themselves in 3/4 decades of Gundam lore so they can watch the latest chapter ? Of course not, to think otherwise is simply preposterous. And yet most people are guilty of this in the west. It's like a rite of passage or something. You poor schmuck can't understand Gundam without watching all the Gundams that have preceeded it.
They're wrong. If you pay attention you can watch a Gundam series and understand exactly what is going on. It is not and has never been rocket science. Even the basic premise of the show is always the same. Each series offers a little variant on the theme, but 90% of the iceberg is still the same. As for why Gundam is not a cultural phenomenon in the US, well is Star Trek a cultural phenomenon in Japan ? So trying to frame the problem in these terms is idiotic. On the other hand you can ask which Gundam series are liked by american audiences. And as I said before, Gundam being a meta franchise some series will appeal better to american sensibilities than other chapters. It's like sports anime. Same thing. Americans don't take nicely to sports anime, they want to practice sports not watch it on tv. As for mecha, most series coming out of Japan because of its history are always predicated on the "war is bad" theme. For a country like the US that idolizes its military and thinks that all solutions to world problems come from bombing the shit out of people it's understandable why a mecha series that heralds the message that "war is bad" and "peace at all costs" isn't well liked. Different cultures, different historical paths. That is why Gundam as long as it is based on pacifism will never become a cultural phenomenon in the US. It will stay niche. Some chapters more liked than others, but never achieving that kind of universal fandom that it has enjoyed in Japan. |
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omiya
 Posts: 1833 Location: Adelaide, South Australia |
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Funny you should mention Majestic Prince - the main appeal of any Gundam anime to me is the music, an introduction to Yuki Kajiura and vocalists like Yuuka Nanri, and lyricist/composer/vocalists like Chiaki Ishikawa and Lisa Komine. When I found out that Chiaki Ishikawa was writing songs for Majestic Prince I watched the anime and enjoyed it. The Gundam Wing OP's are brilliant, e.g. Just Communication (live version): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TLkRSQFcPc Gundam Seed ED1 "Anna ni Issho Datta no Ni" by See-Saw (Yuki Kajiura and Chiaki Ishikawa): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWfwwe-3bnA So many other songs in the Gundam franchise were great - it's worth going through what you can find on Youtube if you like good music of anime. Chiaki Ishikawa also wrote the character song Taiyo (sung by Allelujah Haptism, voiced by Hiroyuki Yoshino): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWlXMBLjdYY Majestic Prince OP1 "私は想像する" original version written by Chiaki Ishikawa and sung by Natsumi Kon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-MrzH9uzcA Self-cover (live) by Chiaki Ishikawa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dbhoO3_qRc Interview with Natsumi Kon and Chiaki Ishikawa about the Majestic Prince songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4dmU-jSXLo. PS, see the artists listed at http://www.gundam.info/gundam-live-expo/. |
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PMDR
Posts: 141 |
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For me, the problem with Gundam was Animag, the old English-language anime magazine. Early issues were JAMMED with episode-by-episode synopses of Gundam episodes (Zeta, if I remember right), and these weren't just summaries, oh no, it was almost scene for scene, and stuffed with very dense detail that assumed the reader knew everything there was to know.
In retrospect, it seems like maybe they printed this stuff to fill pages, or maybe just because they had it on hand. But either way, the way the series was covered in Animag threw up a gigantic brick wall in front of anyone who was new to Gundam. There was NO freaking way you could possibly understand what they were writing about unless you were already a uber-Gundam fanatic. Let me put it this way: compared to those Animag articles, I found it less of a challenge to pick up the SPT Layzner roman album, which was all in Japanese, and try to muddle through reading about and looking at pictures from an anime I had not yet even seen and knew nothing about, in a language I didn't yet understand. When something totally alien is easier to deal with than a episode article in a language you can read, there is a huge problem. I also figured that Gundam didn't need any more fans. It may be awesome but it's got fans like the ones who wrote all that stuff, and so the show doesn't need me to watch too. And I didn't. Layzner turned out to be an amazing series and the whole experience of getting to know that series ended up enriching my life in multiple ways. Going from not understanding any of it to being totally aware of almost every part of it was like falling in love with someone and getting to that point where you can almost read each other's minds and it seems like you've never been apart. Truly I owe a deep debt of gratitude it to those Animag articles for steering me away from Gundam. It's true, the franchise didn't need me. That said, I did watch Wing and thought it was OK. I watched F91 and didn't understand any of it. I saw some of 0083 and forgot what it was supposed to be about before it ended, and as noted in other threads, I found the Gundam X music by happy accident and fell head over heels for the music. It's a wonderful soundtrack and easily among my favorites. What I have seen of Gundam X is limited to Youtube clips. Mainly I am in it for the music. No desire to see Unicorn or SEED or whatever flavor of the moment is running. The older animation style of original Gundam and Zeta and up would absolutely not bother me. But I've never really solved the issue of why I should care about Gundam when it already has legions of fans and too much lore for anyone to grasp it all. Wing at least presented a self-contained universe that required nothing from its viewers but their time to watch it. Which is surely one of the reasons it was successful. The viewer was not expected to be an encyclopedia. |
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Beatdigga
 Posts: 4391 Location: New York |
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I think that's why G got so much traction over here. Because well...G is insane. Even by anime standards, the show is bugnuts crazy in the best way possible. It is so over the top nutty that even stuff that should be offensive like a Gundam with a sombrero or just weird like a German ninja turns all the way around and becomes awesome. And that sticks.
I've always had the theory that robot as superhero is preferable in the West to robot as face of war machine. Look how people are going gaga over Voltron on Netflix. |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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Going to have to disagree, especially considering how the fandom ravenously enjoys the hell out of Char Aznable who in narrative exists solely to have revenge on the family that he blames for killing his parents and forcing him and his sister into exile, without the war going on he wouldn't have so many opportunities to get so close to his targets. The Gundam Wing incarnation especially doubles down on the "WAR IS AWESOME!" effect where young dude bro pilots in overly swagged out mechs blow the crap out of other mechs. And people mentioned Gyrozetter earlier, yeah I can completely understand why the young boy demographic might find it a "kinda lame", the mech designs are very uninspired, the character direction is underwhelming even for a kids show, and then to do an asset flip they make the mechs perform choreographed dancing as if they were doing a Precure closing which seems "out of character" for what are supposed to be giant sized battling robots. The flip side of course I can understand why an Otaku fanbase would eat this shlock up as it feels as if it is a time lost series from the 90s. |
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dark13
Posts: 562 |
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@CoreSignal I could be wrong but you and I seem to be in the same line of thinking when it comes to Gundm. 
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GVman
 Posts: 729 |
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I'm something of a gamblin' man, so I'd be willing to bet money on the magic Gundam show that'd save the franchise in the US being none other than G-Reco. I've made worse bets, and its art is by the same dude who made Eureka Seven.
Speaking of Zoids, why hasn't someone brought the shows out (or at least the original and New CenturyģZero) uncut on DVD here yet? It was big enough that a show aired here first, for crying out loud. Discotek, get on it.
If Gurren Lagann counts as "mecha in the background," then I feel like most mecha shows fit that description. |
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Hazinger Zeta
Posts: 53 Location: New York |
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With
- DVD/Blu-ray re-releases of everything in the franchise out or set to be released and most of the new stuff getting releases with dubs (even if they're closer to Japanese prices) since Unicorn, - beautiful deluxe edition manga releases that other fandoms would kill for like that of the Gundam The Origin manga, and it being a such giant hit for Vertical that Sunrise took notice, and really took the reins for Gundam in the US, - Gunpla, some from the latest series as cross-promotion, available to buy in Barnes & Noble, occupying spots next to the Dragon Ball, One Piece, Power Rangers/Super Sentai, and Marvel figures, (though here in NYC, there are a couple of other stores like Kinokuniya which also sells them), and buying them online has never been easier, due to Bluefin, - Every new series in the franchise getting official simulcasted streams since Gundam Build Fighters - and English localizations of Gundam games which DON'T have "Dynasty Warriors" in the title, like EXVS Force, Breaker 3 and the upcoming SD Gundam G Generation Genesis, which is the first game in that particular series to be translated, I'm more than okay with the current situation. Though as something that would have really gotten more new fans, Sunrise should have just adapted ALL of The Origin as a TV series, instead of just the flashback arcs, since it added so much more to the characters and the world than the original show even had time for, and it would have looked fantastic in good 2D animation. |
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DRosencraft
Posts: 665 |
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Can you simultaneously overestimate and underestimate a group? In any event, I feel like that's the case with Gundam. The US fanbase isn't just looking for mindless robot v. robot action. That wasn't what Wing was, that wasn't what G was, that wasn't what Seed was. Were any of these hyper complex? No, but to insinuate them as mindless is overblown by a fairly wide margin. At the same time, the issue for Gundam as a franchise is the fact that it never strays too far from the UC timeline and that creates a myriad of problems.
I've talked about this with folks for decades now; you will never get a sustained boom for the Gundam franchise if you have to go back to a UC series, unless you start from the first as a remake at current production levels, and then run through everything at pace. To reach "hit" status a show has to have managed to bring in a lot of "middling" fans. These are the folks that will take a look, and read maybe one or two synopsis or reviews before deciding to take watch further. That's all it takes with any UC series to find out that there's about a dozen other entries before the one they're on now, stretching back 40+ years, many of which can be hard to find through conventional channels (Hulu, Netflix). going to be referenced and alluded to, teased, is a turn off if you know you can't or won't see the "rest of the story". Transformers is an aberration, but part of the reason that it works is because it gets massive amounts of advertising every time a new movie comes out. Even if there are entries in UC that require less backstory or knowledge, the awareness of a larger story that you don't know, that is hard to find or expensive to accumulate, is a turn off. They're not going to bother with having to deviate from the common sources they use nowadays to consume entertainment. And it will need a lot of promotion. This doesn't even get into the technical details regarding characters and story that make it hard to get into UC. The things that Wing and Seed do better than most entries in the UC universe is make the central conflict seem bigger than the characters on screen. We have how many UC entries now? And every single one is about Char or Amuro, or someone pretending to be Char, or a clone of Char, or some descendant of Char who is trying to be like his clone... a whole solar system at war, for centuries, all revolving around one guy. Reality or not, that's the impression most folks I've talked with get when looking at the UC timeline. Add in the odd juxtaposition of bits of supernatural fare that isn't really fully embraced or explained well, it simply has a lot of issues to grapple with. In the end, Gundam's problem of appeal in the US will be tied to its vocal, hardcore, base. Because the creators of Gundam are constantly going to be in the box of trying to appease that base by going back to the UC universe. So even if they get another hit like Wing in the states, or Seed, they'll follow up with something that is either trying to be a lot like something in UC, or is from UC, which will raise cognizance of UC and reintroduce all the problems that go along with that. |
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dark13
Posts: 562 |
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@DRosencraft exactly my friend you make a great point
people are not just looking for robot v robot,while having Cool looking mecha is nice, ( thats what model kits are for ) Gundam has always been about Drama, War, themes and Characters,  I also agree about the UC part of your argument, I'm a UC fan But I can admit its not a good idea to always go back to UC, since today's people never grew up with that time line.
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Paiprince
 Posts: 593 |
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Re:0096 is Gundam Unicorn not Origins. That's where my statement is directed at. |
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NormanS
 Posts: 167 |
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The only gundam series i watched to the end were the first gundam (as a child, in chinese as a kid), Gundam Wing and Seed/Destiny. I haven't watched the older gundam series before Wing, but i couldnt get into the later series like 00, Gundam G no Reconguista (which i felt pretty meh about it before dropped in the first few episodes), AGE and Builders . I really like the gundam mecha design as a whole (which is why i bought and built around a total of 20~30 gunpla models), but i couldnt get into any of the newer gundams after seed. As i felt i could get my mecha fix else where, if i wanted more despair, tragedy and edginess - ill watch Fafner and Schwarzmarken, for world-setting: Gargantia and Break Blade, For fantasy - Aquarion, Real robo genre - Macross...
Gundams appeal is that its gundam, which i believe is to its strength as its weakness as it cannot really take the series in a different direction without backlash, and with its rich history of strong titles in its franchise, needs to fullfill its great expectation that comes with the gundam title. |
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stararnold
 Posts: 227 Location: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada |
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This is where we need to ask ourselves, "Does Gundam really need an American-produced screen production (television series or film) re-imagining (live-action or animated) in order to gain Star Trek's recently reached level of mainstream status in America or is destined to remain unnoticed by the American mainstream forever?". |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 5976 |
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Ew  .
Gundam Musou wasn't bad "(even with the music rights issue and the changing of certain voices due to extenuating circumstances) unless you legit hate Musou games in general.
....Wouldn't that contradict the popularity of sports like Football, Hockey, Baseball, Boxing, MMA, & Basketball, while also clashing with the perception of how poorly out of shape we are 
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