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INTEREST: Cowboy Bebop Writer: Anime Will Die Out in Few Decades


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Nagisa
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Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 6128
Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:34 pm Reply with quote
How can an industry die out from a lack of thematically-heavy titles and overindulgence in escapism when it started as pure escapism? I'm sorry, but I don't exactly remember Astro Boy or Tetsujin-28 being profound treatises on the human condition. I remember them being fun, slightly vapid adventures designed to entertain kids and sell toys. And the entire industry followed that line of logic for the vast majority of its existence. It wasn't really until the last couple decades that "smart" anime became the hip, cool trend thanks to the likes of Evangelion and Ghost in the Shell achieving mainstream success. Before that, the closest we got to the sort of anime that Sato seems to think sustains the medium were guys like Tomino trying to shoehorn something into their big robot blow-em-ups.

Is the anime industry dying out from a lack of creativity and substance? Will it follow current trends right into its own oblivion? No. No, no, no, emphatically no. No more than any other form of entertainment in this period of global economic turmoil. All the industry is doing right now, in a sense, is going back to basics and sticking with what works precisely to stay alive. Unfortunately, what works and what sells and what comprises the backbone of the industry isn't the "smart" stuff. All the Haibane Renmeis and Boogiepop Phantoms and Paranoia Agents and Mushishis, all the heady thematic stuff, those have always been fringe titles. They didn't sustain the industry and they never have; it's always been the vapid Ranma ½s and Dragon Balls and Pretty Cures doing that, and the bank they made in times of economic prosperity then allowed studios the cushion to do more avant garde works without fear of it crippling them. Just because that's the stuff we like and just because it's in short supply right now because studios are wary of taking a chance does not, does not mean the industry as a whole is dying, because we alone are not the entire consumer base and the shows we like are not (and have honestly never been) the anime industry's big money-makers.

Wait for things to improve. Wait for another economic upswing. I can almost guarantee that we'll see a sudden surge of "smart" thematically-heavy anime titles right around that time thanks to the consumer majority dropping even more money on the bland, milquetoast shounen and moe titles. They'll make bank, the industry will get ballsy, they'll start snatching up the starving artist types again, and the next Hideaki Anno or Yoshitoshi ABe will produce the next mind-blower and we'll all be happy and forget we ever even considered this Chicken Little nonsense.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:49 pm Reply with quote
Hey guys, play nice. Try to avoid phrases like "shut the f*ck up" when you're making your points if you don't want to be banned.
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erilot



Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 25
Location: INDIANA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:00 pm Reply with quote
I myself have not watch anime for awhile. The past two years there have been no series that makes me want to see them. If based on a manga, I prefer the manga always. It is sad that anime seems to be not as popular. I am actually going to sell off all my DVD's thru E-bay since I no longer watch them, many I have never watched, and I have no plans to watch any again. They are collecting dust on my shelves at home.
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chocobolily



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 32
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:24 pm Reply with quote
I don't think it's reasonable to say the entire industry will die out within a few decades. Certainly all industries (video games, movies, etc) are not currently willing to take as many risks because they can't afford to lose money. But high-quality shows will continue to be produced even if fewer in number--sure, there's a lot of fluff and crap out there, but plenty of people enjoy it and put their money towards it. That money could potentially fund the next great show.

Also: maybe I'm misunderstanding what Sato was saying here but aren't there too many different age groups watching anime for it to disappear? For example, when I was a kid, I didn't want to watch anything that wasn't animated. Children will still have anime, right?

This reminds me of what people say about print lately. Yeah, there's less money going towards physical newspapers and books due to computers/eReaders, but just because something is less profitable doesn't mean it's going extinct.
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tuxedocat



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 2183
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:44 pm Reply with quote
chocobolily wrote:
I don't think it's reasonable to say the entire industry will die out within a few decades. Certainly all industries (video games, movies, etc) are not currently willing to take as many risks because they can't afford to lose money. But high-quality shows will continue to be produced even if fewer in number--sure, there's a lot of fluff and crap out there, but plenty of people enjoy it and put their money towards it. That money could potentially fund the next great show.

Also: maybe I'm misunderstanding what Sato was saying here but aren't there too many different age groups watching anime for it to disappear? For example, when I was a kid, I didn't want to watch anything that wasn't animated. Children will still have anime, right?

This reminds me of what people say about print lately. Yeah, there's less money going towards physical newspapers and books due to computers/eReaders, but just because something is less profitable doesn't mean it's going extinct.


I'm thinking the same way you are. I just don't see such a vacuum forming. At all. I know the industry is in trouble right now, but a lot of industries are.

I think Sato is basically ranting. not that I am unsympathetic. There are a lot of Science Fiction writers here in the States that feel the same way, and rant the same way about what publishing companies are releasing. People want escapism, and the latest formulaic vampire urban fantasy is probably going to outsell that unique cyberpunk sci-fi novel. I'll admit to reading both. The cyberpunk is probably the one I will think about and remember more after the fact, probably due to the amount of intellect investment I had to put in while reading it. Most people don't want to put in that kind of effort with their entertainment. They want that easy escapism. I can understand how a writer would become disillusioned by that, considering the amount of pure creativity, hard research and dilligent effort they put into their work.

Quote:
As a storywriter, Sato had a big axe to grind about the place of the story in Japanese anime. He complained that his works are labeled “difficult-type” (muzukashii-kei), something like the opposite of “atmosphere type” (kuuki-kei) anime. The latter is the type where nothing happens, or there is no significant plot, narrative or development. They tend to focus on cute characters and be very popular with moe fans. Sato said guys like him get no work, even as “Hollywood rips off our ideas.”


I think he is giving way too much credit to "Hollywood". Laughing

He definitely is on to something about the outsourcing. Even though Japan may think that keeping these "slave laborers" in the dark about their animation processes will keep the industry proprietary, I really doubt that will be the case in the long run. Here in CA we've been dealing with the software industry and outsourcing, as well as foreign contractors. For a while, corporations were firing domestic workers like crazy in favor of the cheaper labor. Now that "cheap labor" is growing its own industry, and the corporations who hired them are sweating bullets about the potential competition. Looks to me like the same situation may occur between Japan and Korea.
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Onizuka666



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 266
Location: U.K
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:51 pm Reply with quote
You know, I'm glad to see that we are having a decent debate about this without degrading into bird splat insults.

Anyway, I think that Sato is right with regards to tsunami of souless moeblob and harem shows. While some here might be trying to hide behind the ANN Top 20 of U.S releeased anime shows etc, I seriously think that Sato should have a much better view of all anime that comes out in japan, and thus is a better judge than many of us. Remember, we only get a mere fraction of the anime content japan has to offer.

For anyone doubting the tsunami of moe cheese, have a look at the japanese anime season broadcast lists. For the sake of it, take it back three or four years from now (cue de lorean flames). Now ready all the synopsis for each show, and you'll see how many are cookie cutter cash in crap.

Staying on topic, Sato is talking about japan and anime there, not U.S anime releases or ANN Top Tens. Besides his point, japanese animation studio practices have to change. Sleeping at the studios has to stop, and hours need to be more acceptable to allow life outside of work. They must get into working to live, than out of loyalty etc, because when work becomes your whole life, a person is only existing. Thing is Sato is in the industry and is also in a position to perhaps start his own studio and make these changes that need to happen. if someone like himself doesn't lead, nothing will ever change.

Also about nurturing new talent again, perhaps ANN should start shopping the idea of around of a annual international anime competition. Run the idea by any in the industry that will listen.

Hey ANN, is there any chance that you can get that guy from Tokyo Uni back on the podcast again? His input was really enlightening, and I'd love to hear his view again.
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LemonCookies



Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:52 pm Reply with quote
rockman nes wrote:
Ranma824 wrote:
rockman nes wrote:
Ranma824 wrote:
I'll take wish fulfillment nonsense over anything Sato can write every day of the week.


I'm a douchebag.


Double Fixed.


Seriously?... Seriously?..

Justify your dislike of Sato's work, or shut the f*ck up. Your choice


It's his personal taste just as much as it is yours in liking his work (I'm assuming you do).

I love how everyone bats around terms like "good" and "bad" for various shows and genres. We can differentiate between influential shows from those that aren't, but such shows are always coming out. If you don't happen to like certain newer shows, that's fine, but you can't therefore say "anime sucks now," because that's based on your personal taste. Another self-proclaimed anime fan can just as easily say the opposite, and he would base that on his personal taste.
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DrunkMurray



Joined: 05 Jan 2010
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:52 pm Reply with quote
I dunno, I've been watching anime going on 15 years now (I started when I was 13) and I'm still enjoying the new shows every season.

Right now I'm digging Highschool of the Dead and Legend of Legendary Heroes, heck I even like Ookami-san to Shichinin no Nakamatachi. Not everything has to be a mind blowing introspective piece that makes you question the world around you, it just has to be fun to watch and make you smile. If the claim that nothing good has been released since the Bebop era, then what about the last few years alone bringing us (off the top of my head) Eureka 7, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, FMA: Brotherhood, Code Geass, Spice and Wolf, Daughter of Twenty Faces, Gintama, Kannagi, Baccano, House of Five Leaves, Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, etc...

Sure one series success may spawn a host of cookie-cutter clones, but really is that a bad thing? I'll eat both chocolate chip cookies or ones made with M&Ms, they may be practically identical but still damn tasty.

Ah well, maybe I'm just easy to please and not as serious about my anime as others. I really don't see any overall decline in the quality of anime, I just hear more complaining about how it's not like the good old days.
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Tomibiki



Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 834
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:56 pm Reply with quote
...Just rehash some Burn Up W and call it a day. At least we'll always have the classics!
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pajmo9



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 630
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:05 pm Reply with quote
LemonCookies wrote:
I love how everyone bats around terms like "good" and "bad" for various shows and genres. We can differentiate between influential shows from those that aren't, but such shows are always coming out. If you don't happen to like certain newer shows, that's fine, but you can't therefore say "anime sucks now," because that's based on your personal taste. Another self-proclaimed anime fan can just as easily say the opposite, and he would base that on his personal taste.


I agree. How good, bad or thought-provoking something is can change depending on the perception of the person viewing it. One mans trash is another mans treasure as they say.

In this artical Sato kind of comes across to me as thinking [as long as its something I would like its ok but if I don't like it then its hurting the industry and it should have never been made.] I would hope he's not that arrogant. I rather like quite a few of his works but there were some I didn't care much for. I gotta take them as they come I guess.
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Amethyst Alchemist
Former ANN Editor


Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 312
Location: where it's always a good morning
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:37 pm Reply with quote
Dagon123 wrote:

Amethyst Alchemist wrote:
The word "crisis" is becoming frequent in the vocabulary of Japanese anime company employees, and they are starting to realize there must be changes. Like someone mentioned, there are increasing numbers of international ventures and partnerships. It seems part of the way the industry is trying to save itself is by asking for "help" from America. More projects like Afro Samurai are probably on their way


I'd personally love to see this, you can bash Afro Samurai to hell and back but its original, as far as I know theres only ONE afro samurai anime, and its this one, and it did what it set out to do with flying colors, there are many other places outside japan that would love to do this (I'm looking at you France), would it be "traditional" japanese anime? no, but with the way the cookie-cutter shows are being flown off the assembly line, a change of scenery would only do it good, there are other things then being in a highschool japan ^_-


(I'm not in high school in Japan if that's what you were trying to say there at the end?)

I wasn't trying to bash Afro Samurai at all. I think it's a pretty good show, in fact. I was using it as an example for international anime projects. It seems to be that more partnership projects like it will become more prevalent, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Anime may lose some of its "Japaneseness," but increased international flavor may bolster its success and "sustainability" as an industry.

Projects like that might also help studios have more control over their shows. As things stand, production committees (i.e. TV stations, advertising agencies, DVD distributors) provide the funds for anime productions, and then they are the ones who get to hold onto the copyrights. It's sad for the people who put all their sweat, blood, and tears into a project essentially have to hand it over to someone else's control once they finish it. Maybe if they got financial backing from working with an American company, for example, they'd be able to keep the rights for their own show and be able to start supporting themselves better. It is law that such projects in the U.S. are the intellectual property of the people that make them. Hopefully, things will change in that respect in Japan as well.


Last edited by Amethyst Alchemist on Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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~nanashi~



Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 106
Location: Palmdale, CA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:46 pm Reply with quote
They have been talking about the "Death" of the Anime Industry for years now. That thought has lingered in the back of my mind for so long, could it really be happening? I don't mean to be dramatic in any way but it has been brought up more then once, from running out of ideas for a show to poor sales. The sheer mention of this puts my stomach in knots. Where is the Industry really headed?
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maaya



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 976
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:02 pm Reply with quote
Amethyst Alchemist wrote:
Dagon123 wrote:

there are other things then being in a highschool japan ^_-

(I'm not in high school in Japan if that's what you were trying to say there at the end?)


I think he was talking about almost every anime being set in a japanese high school, and imho conveying a very limited and simplistic vision of the world (its setting/society/the country... etc)

Well, certainly collaborations would be a nice change. Just like back when they created the world master piece theater series, there was a lot of international collaboration and that brought us quite a lot of nice series.

Amethyst Alchemist wrote:
As things stand, production committees (i.e. TV stations, advertising agencies, DVD distributors) provide the funds for anime productions, and then they are the ones who get to hold onto the copyrights.


Very sad and no good for creativity >.>
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7ThIsGod



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 80
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:28 pm Reply with quote
Dai Sato isn't Bebop's writer. He wrote a few, just 3, episodes, sure, but the series composer and the one that deserves to be called Bebop's writer is Keiko Nobumoto.
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garfield15



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1517
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:11 pm Reply with quote
Onizuka666 wrote:
Anyway, I think that Sato is right with regards to tsunami of souless moeblob and harem shows.

But that's not what he said. In fact, that's the opposite of what he said
Quote:
He also did not criticize fan service, because, just as many Japanese film directors came from the “pink movie” industry, many animators are coming from a background in erotic material (doujinshi, eroge or ero-anime/manga). Sexual desire is part of the creative drive.
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