Forum - View topicBishoujo vs, Moe: Genre vs, Emotion.
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Anymouse
 Posts: 685 |
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Many fans have debated the meaning of the word Moe. Many have pointed out that it was originally a word used to describe an emotional feeling felt towards a character, rather than a genre of animation. There is already a long standing term to describe shows with large casts of cute girls: Bishojo. The only problem is it sounds a little too close to shoujo, which could imply that the intended audience is girls, which in most cases is far from the truth. Would it be acceptable to start using Bishojo instead of Moe? It could reduce the confusion debate, and give a large big tent term to group all these types of shows together with, without having to debate whether prurient interest was involved, it was all platonic love, or whether the show is just a vehicle for lolicon. Of course, the Wikipedia points out that this is not actually a genre either, but is a term only used informally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishōjo |
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Nayu
Posts: 676 |
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Moe is the new bishojo.
Honestly, these terms are rather meaningless. Its all anime. Some of it is cuter than others. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 19161 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I think you're off base, Anymouse. The unwillingness to use "bishoujo" to describe the kind of series you're talking about has nothing to do with its similarity to "shoujo." Before moe became a big fad, this term was commonly used to refer to any series which featured a cast predominately composed of pretty/sexy girls/women. It is, as has been noted, a more casual term and certainly is not genre-specific. "Moe" has come to refer to a specific subset of Bishoujo where characters foster protective feelings in the viewer; this most typically involves an emphasis more on cute than pretty. What the word originally means here is entirely irrelevant, as that's what the word means now.
And this would hardly be the first time that anime fans (especially American fans) have co-opted an anime-related term from its original meaning to now refer to something specific. |
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Brent Allison
 Posts: 2445 Location: Athens-Clarke County, GA, USA |
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@Key: I think you're on the right track, but I'm not sure if I would characterize moe as a subset of shoujo. If moe-type characters foster protective feelings in the viewer, then what about male characters like Momiji from Fruits Basket and Honey from Ouran High School Host Club spoiler[at least before it's shown that Honey is a butt-kicking badass]? They are often created to evoke the same kinds of sentiments in viewers as other moe characters that are traditionally female.
Also, I tend to use "moe" as a descriptor of the intent of the producer rather than the actual emotions that fans respond with. If Anymouse is concerned about the conflation of moe with lolita, then perhaps the appeal to creator intent would help address those concerns so that the problem can (more or less) convincingly be reduced to the individual consumer (e.g. "They didn't mean for her to be thought of like that; that guy's just a pervert.") than put on the industry as a whole. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Human nature has me believing the only reason why this definition is debated is because there are a few who find themselves attracted to "moe", but will often be ridiculed for it and thus, will intentionally re-define it as to step away from this ridicule while harboring an enjoyment of it. In all conflicts, two sides oppose a position because neither side is willing to compromise and anime fandom certainly isn't any different. Since Fruits Basket was mentioned, can we consider Tohru as "moe" or that she can invoke it? When she's telling her tale of her lost mother, isn't this "moe" as defined by any of its definitions? Yet, I know many fans, especially those who enjoy Fruits Basket, will state Tohru is not "moe" and thus, the conflict ensues when some will state any invocation of "moe" makes the entire series "moe". This is why I refrain from using the word, simply because it's been so diluted, its only purpose now is to incite conflict. Right along with "fanservice"*, "tsundere", and "lolicon". *I will use this term only when there's blatant nudity and pantsu shots which only serve no purpose, such as the content found in Strike Witches. I know there are several anime fans who wish to remove the diluted terms commonly used, but it's in vain and the better approach would be to omit their use as well or ensure the definition is established well before the word is used in discussion, if only to help curb the inevitable incitement of disagreement. |
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Anymouse
Posts: 685 |
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True, but I was suggesting that Bishoujo could be used as a big tent term. Cuteness is in a way a type of prettiness. It is true however that the terms do have different connotations.
"Is it Live, or Is it Memorex?" |
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CrisGer A.A.
 Posts: 170 Location: 世田谷区 Setagaya Ward |
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Moe is also used more in Japan for romance as well as being about attractive female characters....they are in a series or a title to give it an added element that expands the story. Here in the US media design tends to claim terms as labels to gain appeal for the title, rather than considering the intent of the writers and directors. I tend to think many anime series have a range of characters and aspects in them to make them better stories, not just to gain attention or to make sales. It is not easy to transport Japanese words to english safely often, and Moe is a good example...i do think it tends to be more about a feeling of romance rather than just the appearance or nature of the characters. And finally Japanese culture looks at aspects of such things VERY differently and in a much more normal and relaxed way than the western cloned mass american culture which is really uptight about all of this...making use of these terms even more challenging.
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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So you don't see a problem with using "bishoujo" for "moe" regarding shows like Chi's Sweet Home or Potemayo? Or that bishoujo specfically refers to females when moe can refer to female, male, or other? |
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Anymouse
Posts: 685 |
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It's true, it can't be used to refer to Chi's sweet home. But it is not the kind of show that leads to 20+ page debates on it's intended audience and artistic authenticity, and etc. Potemayo could easily be described as Bishoujo. I am not saying every show that was created with the intention of inspiring protective feelings is Bishoujo, but am saying that every show with a cast of young women can be called Bishoujo.
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gsilver
Posts: 768 |
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In some circles, I'd get flamed for describing something like Kaiji, which is neither cute nor pretty, as being moe, but IMO, it is.
The characters, while being manly men, are also characterized in such a way to instill protective feelings from the viewer, which is what moe is at is core. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Except that for the central human cast, it's 4 males and 3 females. |
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