Forum - View topicINTEREST: Hayao Miyazaki Calls AI CG Animation 'An Insult to Life Itself'
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
fathomlessblue
 Posts: 349 Location: Manchester, UK |
|
|||
|
I feel the great irony that is Miyazaki's existence is the underlying message that in order to truly understand & articulate human behaviour you first must learn to despise it.
As with a lot of previous statements, I can't really fault his stance. So some folks created a cg body that pushes with its head in order to move in an odd and unsettling way? Of course an artist who has spent his life studying movement and mannerisms would have a thing or two to say about that. He has the experience, partly because of age and partly by putting the effort to expand his craft. Absolutely that model would be distasteful and disrespectful to someone who's actually paid attention to how people with actual physical impairments behave. It's the same point Araki was making via Rohan Kishibe - that what separates a talented artist from a mediocre one is having an actual interest in the subject you're studying and also learning things beyond it to add creativity. Fiddling about with a model like a kid with their first piece of 3d software isn't going to impress anyone, let alone a master of their field. That said, jesus wept Miyazaki, you don't have to be such an asshole all the time! I know the cantankerous old man routine has always been a part of his persona, but at least try to use criticisms to inform rather than put down for once. There's benefits in sweetening the pill. Last edited by fathomlessblue on Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:09 pm; edited 5 times in total |
||||
|
||||
|
SkerllyF
Posts: 244 |
|
|||
First, I respect Miyazaki. He may be right about the current state of the industry, but when you see the mayority of people saying that "anime is dead, too many light novels, to much moe and fanservice" I ask myself if we just want the industry to change for us, and if we want to only watch smart anime because that makes us smarter(when in reality you get smarter by learning things in the world, not by being in front of a TV watching smart tv and movies all the time)? There are awesome anime series that include fanservice and moe, yet we avoid watching them because our mind has been codified to do this. And there´s as good anime series as there´s good western animation(meaning than western animation in its mayority these days has a whole lot of cliche and boring works and the good series you count them with your hand). And on topic, if he thinks CGI anime are all bad and only serves as saving cost measure, he hasn´t seen how good Appleseed 2nd CG movie, SAint Seiya: Sanctuary and the Japanese Final Fantasy movie look. Yet we´ll have a lot of people saying that they don´t want to watch CG anime because they´re all bad by default. CG in TV needs a lot of work to look better but let´s not treat the series that use it well as awful. Remember, if you say that Japan has a bad taste, then you may have an even bigger bad taste and awful intelligence because you say that anime is dead when there are awesome series out there and you don´t want to search them. If otakus are nasty people, then you are even nastier for the deep hatred towards them |
||||
|
||||
Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
|
|||
|
I must admit that I also found Miyazaki's comments heavy-handed and quite inappropriate. That the animation was monstrous and off-putting was quite evident, but surely some art should be in such a way! Though I have a distaste for them, many graphic horror films can justify their objectionable content, and these animators' similar innovations should at least deserve the benefit of the doubt at this stage. Whether or not the CG animation ultimately exhibits a certain social insensitivity is a point not to be overlooked, but surely this issue is a function of that particular animation's ultimate context within a wider artwork—something that lies beyond the scope of a mere technical demonstration!
|
||||
|
||||
|
CCTakato
Posts: 514 |
|
|||
|
||||
|
||||
penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
|
|||
Who cares if he's unpleasant? Let the mediocre be pleasant. |
||||
|
||||
|
H. Guderian
Posts: 1255 |
|
|||
|
When AI begins to get good and smart enough to make animation itself, I wouldn't mind so much.
Miyazaki and myself lament that Humans are surrendering our capacity to animate, willing to give it over to the AI for the sake of profits. That we lose the urge to animate ourselves, that the joy of making animation becomes secondary to hammering out Product, that is what I lament. Its not the AI's fault. Its the humans enabling the AI to the deficit of our own industry. |
||||
|
||||
Artesox
 Posts: 90 |
|
|||
|
Stubborn as always, no wonder his creative style has been so stale.
While the example given by the students wasn't a good sample of genetic algorithms, his response was a thousand times worse, being stupid in nature, and fed by a little anecdote that has nothing to do with anything. But I guess self-hating people must see that as some sort of wisdom is his baseless bucolic pandering, so whatever. 
Last edited by Artesox on Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
7jaws7
 Posts: 704 Location: New York State |
|
|||
|
As harsh as Miyazaki was, he's not wrong about the flaws of using AI to animate. I think it's okay to experiment with new ideas, but they should be used few and far between. We're not quite ready for something like that in video games or anime.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Artesox
Posts: 90 |
|
|||
We already use that in games, all the damn time by the way. And would you believe it, people praise it! Procedurally generated maps for example, are dearly beloved. Now onto the topic of what the guys were doing, genetic algorithms could lead to AIs capable of automatically generating content aware walk cycles. You could create large crowds of people walking without the stiff looking movements that plague said shots. Which is amazing, and would surely improve the quality of games and anime. But nah. muh arcadia, muh technologyless pure life. Last edited by Artesox on Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
|
JennLegacy
Posts: 107 |
|
|||
|
I really think there's some misinterpretation going on here in the comments. He's not criticizing CGI or CGI anime or saying that CGI lacks humanity compared to handrawn or anything like that. CGI doesn't make things less human because there are still people behind the scenes physically animating everything. Even he did some experimenting with CGI post "retirement." The real issue here is the animation has been procedurally generated, completely cutting out the artist from the equation. Animators are usually encouraged to study real life movement and understand the actual flow, feeling, and motion in order to make believable movements. If we're going with Miyazaki's anecdote for instance, an actual living breathing CGI artist would understand disabilities and pain while an AI animator wouldn't. It may sound silly to people who aren't artists, but personally knowing and understanding a subject affects the final product A LOT.
With that being said, I understand Miyazaki's stance on it, but I feel his criticism is much too harsh. As much as animators complain about how lifeless "tweening" looks, people are still using it because it makes animation production run quicker and more efficiently. And there was a lot of cynicism in the North American animation industry when Adobe announced their procedurally generated lip syncing program for the same reason as Miyazaki's, but people have come around a bit and it is a useful tool that can only improve as time goes on. Automated animation techniques has been a pretty sticky issue in the animation industry for some time now (and mind you, this is completely different from the handrawn vs. computer argument), and everyone is just in this awkward position where we have to accept it and learn how to make the best out of it. I do think this kind of tech can be improved and adjusted to add more of human touch alongside the computer algorithms though. So while my initial sentiment is similar to Miyazaki's, it's really hard to judge when the program is in such a primitive state. |
||||
|
||||
|
Pikapwn
Posts: 8 |
|
|||
|
Does anyone know if there is a way to watch the full documentary (with English subtitles)? I would really like to watch the whole thing.
|
||||
|
||||
AJ (LordNikon)
 Posts: 504 Location: Kyoto |
|
|||
Here's a spoiler for ya about us old men. spoiler[You too will be a proud member of in what will be a much shorter time than you would think, unless, you're planning to die young and fast in a blaze of some sort of millennial glory. Wait till your kids or grand kids make those knocks on you as well.] |
||||
|
||||
|
grouwl
Posts: 69 |
|
|||
|
Dudes, who let granpa miyazaki out of his retirement home!!? Now he's out on the streets talking shit about new technology and making more movies...Didn't we learn our lesson yet!!, now you deal with this mess...I'm tired of it!!
|
||||
|
||||
Animechic420
 Posts: 1728 Location: A Cave Filled With Riches |
|
|||
Well he's not wrong... |
||||
|
||||
|
ew121
Posts: 160 |
|
|||
Go Nagai is an absolute madman that innovated the entire industry with several genres. Miyazaki just made mainstream movies that do nothing out the comfort zone. Please don't compare them again, the contribution Nagai has to both manga and anime is bigger than anything Miyazaki has ever done. |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group