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wolf10
Joined: 23 Jan 2016
Posts: 906
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 Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:15 pm
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Kids these days are so spoiled by their Eye Geez and their Yufo-tables. Yeah, this is basically a really colorful Power-Point of a CliffsNotes summary of a Wars of the Roses AU slash fic, but that in and of itself is a wondrous and beautiful thing.
Once again, I feel validated in my decision to not brush up on the manga first, though I do occasionally have to pause to look up names and remind myself that both Richard (Duke of York) and Henry (VI) have sons named Edward (the future IV and Westminster, respectively). My knowledge of English history before Henry VIII is very tragically limited, though finding out that Henry VI was crowned before he turned 1 is really all the context I needed for his characterization here. The only choice he's ever made himself is to pursue Richard, and for once I find I can be invested in the beautiful tragedy of that, even knowing that, spoiler alert, everyone is going to die, because the history (and the histories) have already been written, and this is just another way to experience that.
Also, Richard's now in a love triangle with a father and son!? One who wants him as a man, the other as a woman?! Who comes up with this stuff? (Aya Kanno, naturally.)
(In the process of brushing up on my English history, I may have stopped by the Wikipedia page for James I and VI of England for a refresher on Very Probably Gay™ or Bisexual® monarchs, and just maybe tumbled into the rabbit hole that is the essay collection of gay historian Rictor Norton. I've already been down here for hours and I don't think I'll be leaving any time soon.)
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Kirki
Joined: 11 Jun 2019
Posts: 296
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 3:21 am
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| wolf10 wrote: | | Kids these days are so spoiled by their Eye Geez and their Yufo-tables. Yeah, this is basically a really colorful Power-Point of a CliffsNotes summary of a Wars of the Roses AU slash fic, but that in and of itself is a wondrous and beautiful thing.
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Because I checked on the manga, I realized that the anime adaptation doesn't offer more from the manga experience (the greatest contribution is probably the voice-acting) but it doesn't bring it down either. Whether you watch the anime or read the manga makes little difference. I understand it as an aesthetic choice and I like it - the only thing I would change would be the color palette, but I guess it was made this grim and gray-toned on purpose. If something screamed "this isn't a happy story" more than that, I wouldn't know.
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SHD
Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1752
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:23 am
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| Kirki wrote: | | Because I checked on the manga, I realized that the anime adaptation doesn't offer more from the manga experience (the greatest contribution is probably the voice-acting) but it doesn't bring it down either. Whether you watch the anime or read the manga makes little difference. I understand it as an aesthetic choice and I like it - the only thing I would change would be the color palette, but I guess it was made this grim and gray-toned on purpose. If something screamed "this isn't a happy story" more than that, I wouldn't know. |
I think the anime absolutely brings down the manga's aesthetic. Yes, it's dark. But it lacks a visual "punch". It lacks drama, it lacks the heightened depictions that the manga is so good at. The manga's art is dramatic, the anime just looks flat, gray and uninspired. And this is unrelated to the actual animation quality - this is inept and visionless artistic direction, which brings the whole show down since it doesn't convey the elevated (melo)drama that is the story's bread and butter.
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wolf10
Joined: 23 Jan 2016
Posts: 906
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:31 pm
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| Kirki wrote: | | (the greatest contribution is probably the voice-acting) |
ON THAT SUBJECT, THOUGH. I thought I was watching this for Bishounen Richard III sexually confusing everyone in the court of England, but then I got Aya Hisakawa, Sayaka Ohara, and Shizuka Itou all chewing the scenery as their career-best evil queens (technically two evil queens and a duchess, but not for lack of trying). What does the recording booth even look like after they tape this show? There must be teeth marks everywhere.
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yeehaw
Joined: 09 Sep 2018
Posts: 427
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 1:05 pm
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Man everybody loves Richard, except Richard
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Gina Szanboti
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11392
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:37 pm
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This is why I said back in the Preview Guide that I've never been that interested in Euro-royals, since they're all related and have like 4 names among them, so my eyes glaze over when the numerals kick in. I really need a flow chart to keep these same-name people straight.
I did really feel bad for Prince Edward's clumsy and futile attempts to woo Richard. At least Richard kept the brooch (?) instead of breaking his heart right there on the spot.
Is it just me, or is it weird to offer your prisoner a sex visit from a prostitute? oO And maybe weirder to invite your jailers in for a foursome? o.o
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yuna49
Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3804
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:24 am
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I find it hard to accept the conceit that men see Richard as female. He's never looked like a woman to me.
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blahmoomoo
Joined: 27 Jan 2020
Posts: 466
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:31 am
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| yuna49 wrote: | | I find it hard to accept the conceit that men see Richard as female. He's never looked like a woman to me. |
I find it especially strange when Prince Edward clearly knows Richard's name, if not his position. As far as I can tell, Richard is an entirely masculine name. It seems to be a really bizarre hangup over feeling Richard's chest earlier.
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wolf10
Joined: 23 Jan 2016
Posts: 906
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:44 am
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| Quote: | | But Prince Edward is with Richard because he loves “her,” and he's trying very, very hard to crack Richard's icy shell. |
This is 100% invented for the subtitles, but it's a really good choice considering mini-Edward's mental state. (Japanese simply doesn't have the same linguistic concept of pronouns that English does, gendered or otherwise. Same for gendered names.) I'm sure he thinks he's keeping some kind of big secret, since this universe's York didn't have any daughters, and freeing Richard will allow "her" the freedom to live as a woman with a female name. Poor kid does not get it. At least he's cute.
| Gina Szanboti wrote: | | This is why I said back in the Preview Guide that I've never been that interested in Euro-royals, since they're all related and have like 4 names among them, so my eyes glaze over when the numerals kick in. I really need a flow chart to keep these same-name people straight. |
The convention is to call everyone by the name of their territory (thanks to the "one ass per throne" rule). Toriumi Edward is now Edward IV (of England), and Amasaki Edward is Westminster. I think Warwick and Buckingham are the only ones following that rule in Rose King, though.
Though I did flip open my mother's old copy of The Sunne in Splendour on a lark and come to the tragic realization that a genealogy chart doesn't actually help that much (some of that may be because it has even more characters).
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Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 2612
Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:15 am
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| wolf10 wrote: | | The convention is to call everyone by the name of their territory (thanks to the "one ass per throne" rule). Toriumi Edward is now Edward IV (of England), and Amasaki Edward is Westminster. I think Warwick and Buckingham are the only ones following that rule in Rose King, though. |
It really would make life much easier if Prince Edward was referred to as Westminster, even if only in the subtitles. I was this close to inventing nicknames this week, since I wasn't sure if people would know who I meant if I went with "Westminster" for our cute (but a little dim) prince.
Forget a horse, my kingdom for a few more first names!
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Gina Szanboti
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11392
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:20 am
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It also does not help that King Henry looks like Prince Edward's slightly older brother rather than his father. Was he, what, 3 when he sired him?
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yeehaw
Joined: 09 Sep 2018
Posts: 427
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:59 pm
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| blahmoomoo wrote: |
| yuna49 wrote: | | I find it hard to accept the conceit that men see Richard as female. He's never looked like a woman to me. |
I find it especially strange when Prince Edward clearly knows Richard's name, if not his position. As far as I can tell, Richard is an entirely masculine name. It seems to be a really bizarre hangup over feeling Richard's chest earlier. |
I assume he thinks Richard is a girl hiding her gender and that Richard is a fake name
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SaneSavantElla
Joined: 25 Jan 2013
Posts: 230
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:06 pm
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After reading the article a few weeks ago on the historical personages behind Requiem of the Rose's characters, I went ahead and spoiled myself of the events of the Wars of the Roses (thanks wikipedia and youtube) and I must say it improved my appreciation of the show as a whole even if I still find some of the scene transitions abrupt and jarring. It does help a lot knowing which Edward I'm currently staring at on my screen.
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CrowLia
Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 5505
Location: Mexico
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:26 am
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| wolf10 wrote: |
| Quote: | | But Prince Edward is with Richard because he loves “her,” and he's trying very, very hard to crack Richard's icy shell. |
This is 100% invented for the subtitles, but it's a really good choice considering mini-Edward's mental state. (Japanese simply doesn't have the same linguistic concept of pronouns that English does, gendered or otherwise. Same for gendered names.) I'm sure he thinks he's keeping some kind of big secret, since this universe's York didn't have any daughters, and freeing Richard will allow "her" the freedom to live as a woman with a female name. Poor kid does not get it. At least he's cute.
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I wouldn't say 100% invented. Unless my ears deceived me, I'm pretty sure I heard Edward use "kanojo" (she/her) in his internal monologues about Richard at least once this episode
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wolf10
Joined: 23 Jan 2016
Posts: 906
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 12:42 pm
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| CrowLia wrote: | | I wouldn't say 100% invented. Unless my ears deceived me, I'm pretty sure I heard Edward use "kanojo" (she/her) in his internal monologues about Richard at least once this episode |
I was expressly listening for "kanojo" the entire time and didn't catch it, but maybe my ears were mistaken. He might have used it for Richard in an earlier episode, though. (Doing a quick skim through now and not finding it.) Either way, aside from the "Do I look like a woman to you?" bit, the gendering is basically absent in the original language, so it's still a neat touch.
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