Forum - View topicTeasers and suspense for anime are getting out of hand...
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Divineking
 Posts: 1316 |
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I do kind of get annoyed when characters get resurrected for ridiculous reasons, but at this point it's just kind of a generally accepted rule in anime that if a character's death is off screen, they didn't really die(that would include explosions, falls and off screen impalemens), and will likely come back 10 episodes later to pull some crazy s***.
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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That's a rule for like any TV story.. it's the Schrodinger's Gun aspect it didn't happen or doesn't exist until we are informed of it so if we see a character falling and then cut-away we know he fell but if he comes back we can assume he survived somehow and imagine scenarios of how that occurred (That would be the imaginative aspect from the audience kicking in)
It's kinda like role playing, it doesn't matter which house you choose, the house with the interesting plot points is the one that is chosen. Gives them the illusion they have choice... |
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glargmonster
 Posts: 15 |
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Actually I agree with this idea that all this not dying has got to stop. In your one piece example, spoiler[ Pell flies away with a bomb that's supposed to kill a million people. And instead, it doesn't kill one guy, at point blank range! It's true that in one piece no one of any relevance seems to stay dead but I gotta think that Ace and Whitebeard are very, very dead. And staying that way. Hell they better be dead they got actual graves that were shown. ] Just because it's a common trope in American comic books or other stuff doesn't make it any less crappy a plot device to use. Consider some of the responses in this topic, there's no drama in the supposed death of some of these characters if we the audience know that there's no actual chance they are dead. They should mix it up and actually kill someone of importance early on in the story, then the reader might be kept on his/her toes the next time someone dies/"dies." |
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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I happen to agree with your larger point, in the sense this type of plot device was used too much and certainly a lot more than what would have been strictly necessary or convenient, though not with the specifics of your argument. For instance, spoiler[Nunnally's (and Sayoko's, for that matter) "dead" status was limited to a relationship chart updated on a weekly basis while the show was still airing. In other words, it wasn't meant to represent any definite statement but simply a rough guide to ongoing events as they happened. What's more, few people were actually checking that website or even knew of its existence, particularly among Western fans who cannot read Japanese. It's not worth overestimating its influence.] And besides, unlike some of the other examples in the series itself...I would argue that particular case had a perfectly reasonable -well, at least by anime standards- explanation with bits and pieces of supporting evidence in the original episode spoiler[(ie: there was more than one shuttle, as proven by both visual and dialog cues)]. In contrast, any other materials or statements (and there is more than one of those, I might add) released long after the series had ended that deal with another character's fate fall under a different category, making this a comparison between apples and oranges (no pun intended). There's no inherent link between the two situations, other than in the realm of assumptions and interpretations. Not that Sunrise isn't free to introduce retroactive continuity in a potential sequel, of course, which would make this argument completely moot...but that remains to be seen so far, considering both of the franchise's newest projects are prequels. For the time being, that debate leads absolutely nowhere. |
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Fifth B
 Posts: 213 |
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I really don't see this as any sort of endemic problem in anime right now. While there are quite a few shows in which characters appear to die but in fact sufer a "Disney Death", I haven't seen many examples of characters doing this several times over in a single series. The only shows I can think of that seem overloaded with fake deaths are shounen shows like DBZ. As long-running properties, they are quite similair to American comic books in that they need to keep people interested and watching without sinking the franchise. So, to answer the original question, no, I don't really se it as a bigger problem now than it has ever been.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Edit: this post is in response to nightjuan:
Maybe if spoiler[Nunnally] had been an isolated incidence then I could have forgiven it. (It was, but only in regard that an official - alright then, semi official - source claimed that the character was dead.) But we also had, in random order: spoiler[Cornelia, the Black Knight dudes, Cornelia's knight (who somehow regained his sight to boot by the finale), I think possibly even Cornelia again, Charles (just in terms of pacing issues he should have died then and there), Lelouch's mother, Suzaku, and Orange (who survived his dunking in the ocean at the end of season one).] That's just off the top of my head. Needless to say, I like many people thought spoiler[Nunnally had survived, although personally speaking I hoped I was wrong and that she was gone for good. Why? Not because I hated her, because I didn't, but because of impact reasons. Her "death" sent Lelouch over the edge, just like Marianne's death was half the reason Lelouch took up power in season one. But then Nunnally was brought back, and even though there was another shuttle, it still felt incredibly cheap. All of the angst and the regret and the hard work had been for nothing. That event played a huge role in splintering the fandom; Marianne just smashed it.] |
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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A couple of those are still debatable but I'm not questioning the fact they were -and remain- a problem. Plenty of other characters died and have continued to stay unequivocally dead as far as we know, to be fair, but Code Geass R2 did shoot itself in the foot by making death an extremely relative concept by the time the series was over. It's one undeniable flaw among many and of particular relevance to the discussion in this topic. I don't disagree about the fact that, from the point of view of dramatic impact, it would have been better to let spoiler[Nunnally] die, even if the narrative's overall framework were to be kept otherwise unchanged. That would actually have the side-effect of enhancing some of the decisions Lelouch made afterwards as opposed to what was more or less the opposite. Perhaps to a greater or lesser extent, the same thing goes for the other character you mentioned...although at least that was portrayed as something of a mystery to begin with. Still, none of those are what I would consider "wise" decisions from a creative writing standpoint. As a conclusion, let's just say I hope this becomes less and less of a problem in the future....though it probably won't completely disappear, unfortunately, since it's a plot device that predates all of the individual anime titles mentioned in this topic. |
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Unicorn_Blade
 Posts: 1153 Location: UK |
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In a way I dont like when I get lead on that something will happen/someone will die, and then of course they never do. Like when I am expecting a tragic ending, because everything suggests it will happen, and it never does.
In Eureka 7 we get to believe that spoiler[Holland might die since the machine he is operating is sucking liofe out of him, and then he ends up all fine. I saw it as lack of consequence- not because i dont like the character, but what was the point in this pessimistic building up of tension? ] I am not even gonna mention how some other characters almost get spoiler[blown up or get in a middle of explosion, or crush with full speed into another aircraft, and make it out without a scratch.] I dont buy the argument about having to maintain some characters because they have fans that will stop watching the series if their fav die. I have never swiched off the TV when my favourites died, and that has happened oh so many times that I cant even count all of them. Sometimes bringing someone from the grave actually kind of ruins the whole thing. this has been happening a lot in the Gantz manga and I really lost interest in the whole thing after a while. In a way for me it sometimes (not always) looks like looking for cheap twists. "Mwahahaha, you thought he was dead? Gotcha! He is alive after all". Except that after a while it becomes a boring routine rather than a twist really. It does not always works, and like all other tools should be used when there is need for it, not when the makers lack ideas as for how to develop the plot. |
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glargmonster
Posts: 15 |
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I agree completely. Of course it's not always bad but as the topic subject suggests, it's getting to be ridiculous. Any plot device can be used effectively, but something like this is overused and flat out annoying. It's interesting that you mention Gantz, I just recently read the manga and I thought the way they handled this sort of thing was fine at first but naturally got out of hand. I don't think it's a spoiler but just in case I would like to mention that spoiler[currently it at least looks like there won't be anymore returning from beyond the grave.] To be clear, it's not as if not quite dying or returning from death should be banned forever, there just needs to be a lot less of it. At some point people need to die and stay dead for good. I'm aware this is an anime forum but if you look at American comic books, both Captain American and Batman "died" but although everyone knew they were not going to stay dead it was still kind of pathetic that the writers couldn't keep them dead for more than a few months. Back when Superman "died" in the early 90's it only turned out that he was in a kryptonian super coma or something like that. It was lame then and that sort of thing is lame now too. |
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taske
Posts: 6 |
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Thanks for the many back ups on my opinion and i do like it when they bring back someone that i care about but.....I also think to bring back 30 somethin people after an epic event is ridiculous. Anyway >.> yeah... Some animes can get away with it and some can't =^^=
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RHachicho
 Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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Personally I think it depends on the Anime. Sure in a work of some calibur you don't expect miraculous turnarounds to happen every day but in a feelgood story I don't mind if a character comes back. I especially like it when the whole cast is trapped after finishing of the main bad guy and their dead mate turns up just in time to save em all. What can I say I am a sentimentalist
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