Forum - View topicANNCast - This One's About Reviews!
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
neocloud9
 Posts: 1178 Location: Atlanta, GA |
|
|||||
|
This is more of a response to the recent ANNCasts in general, but I've noticed that I really have a lot more respect for Zac and all he does now. Hearing his voice makes him feel much friendlier and more approachable - I remember feeling kinda intimidated by him on the forums not too long ago, especially since our opinions differed pretty radically on some things. But now that I realize what the reviewers have to go through just to stay current and keep up with releases, I'm amazed at how polite and reasonable everyone's been able to stay. I don't think I could do that. Kudos, y'all.
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
AJtheFourth
Posts: 21 Location: Kansas |
|
|||||
I agree. I think another thing to take into consideration regarding reviewers is that the more things you review, or are required to review, the more jaded you eventually become. Despite that fact, this ANNcast was the best yet and devoid of that bitterness that tends to creep into everything after being worn down by years of reviewing. Also, Zac, thanks for that small disclaimer about how not all Key anime adaptation fans are rabid fanboys. I am a girl, and I appreciate series like Clannad, Air, and Kanon, for their more dramatic elements. The closest I'll ever get to actually playing a visual novel is Harvest Moon. I thought Erin's Clannad-AS review was more than fair, and it's sad that she was ripped apart for it. As for your best/most analytical review yet, Zac, it was definitely your review of Seitokai no Ichizon in this past Fall Anime Preview Guide. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
belisarius
Posts: 203 Location: Concord, NC |
|
|||||
|
This was the first ANN podcast I've listened to and the only podcast I've ever listened to in its entirety. I enjoyed it quite a lot for a few reasons. It's interesting that in the modern sphere the audience for reviews is as much a part of the review process as is the author's reaction. There was a lot of discussion about who the perceived audience for reviews was, what your objectives were in talking to that audience, and what your obligations to that audience were. I find that sort of interesting because not long ago, and still in some circles today (coughpitchforkcough), the reviewer or critic's role was not part of a two way conversation but one of dictating tastes, or providing that A or F grade other people have mentioned. I think it was Zac who said he's started to perceive his reviews more as a jumping off point for the inevitable discussions on the forums rather than absolute judgment on an anime/manga/OVA whatever.
It was also interesting to hear people talk about reviews they'd like to do over and how their style has changed over the last however many years. I remember four or five years ago Zac did a Hey Answerman that sparked a particularly massive debate (or flame war depending on how civil you were being) on the forums. It was one of the few that actually prompted Chris to put a post on the front page defending Zac and asking people to please just calm the F down. I wrote a response to that column that in retrospect was probably over reaction in a lot of ways and I took a few things out of context. That's one thing if I could go back and do over, it's something I'd change because although I still disagree with some of the assertions Zac made at the time, I didn't make my case particularly well and the tone of my response wasn't really warranted for what was essentially a debate about fansubbing cartoons. The point I am trying to make here is that not only has the reviewer in many cases changed, but a lot of the audience has as well. Some of us have grown up, some of us have changed our minds, some of us have come to expect different things from the anime we watch and we go into reviews looking for different things. It still amazes me how often reviewers on ANN get accused of being pretentious for having four syllable words in their reviews or for attempting to contextualize the work they're reviewing in the bigger picture. It's as if a portion of the audience expects the review for everything to be written in gushing meme speak and anything more is obviously taking itself too seriously. I wonder how many people, five years from now, will look back on their posts assailing this or that reviewer for being a stuck up anime snot and think "wow, I'm amazed at how juvenile I was". Anyway, this was really enjoyable to listen to and if the powers that be are considering doing similar panels again, I'd be interested in hearing more. Another thing you might or might not consider is looking for a few trusty forum users who regularly respond to reviews to take part in the discussion, since you're positing that the review process is to varying degrees as much about the reader's response as it as about the review itself. Of course, culling a reliable signal from all this noise would be a daunting undertaking, but it could be interesting none the less. Thanks again for an insightful podcast guys (and gals). |
||||||
|
||||||
The King of Harts
 Posts: 6712 Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia |
|
|||||
|
Honestly, I don't take reviews to heart. I'll read them because I like hearing the opinions of other (level-headed) people, but I already know ahead of time if I'm going to buy something or not because no one knows what I'll like more than me. Sometimes when I'm debating on when to buy a show, I'll see what Theron has said about it and if he likes it, I'll get it sooner rather than later. That's about all the influence a reviewer can have on me.
I also read Zac's reviews because I just enjoy reading what he writes. Even if we disagree on some things, I just enjoy reading why he hates it because he's a very level-head person who can support his complaints and I'll sometimes see myself going, "Yea, I get that". Zac just sounds so human; sometimes it'll feel like he's talking to me instead of me reading it. The sarcasm he puts in is also a huge plus. |
||||||
|
||||||
penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
|
|||||
|
It's not just that the Dragon Box is proper aspect ratio, Zac. There are other differences. Now, if only there was a way for me to do something to inform folks of that...
Dragon Ball Kai, while a more streamlined version, is missing a lot of the magic of the original DBZ, to me. The new score bothers me, for instance. Yeah, a lot of the needless filler is gone, but I find myself missing some of said filler (come on, who doesn't love Yamcha as a baseball player or Gohan meeting the grumpy robot?). My hope is that, if Funimation does licensed Kai, they'll finally provide an English dub for the show that is both accurate and well-acted. DBZ may not be the greatest show of all time, but it's about time it receives at least the same effort that Funimation puts into other programs.But, mostly I'm resigned in thinking it likely won't. Love the "special effects". My philosophy on anime reviews (and I paraphrase from my bit in the Answerman thread) is that they're largely meant as a guide to those with similar tastes. But, I would add that a person has to be an active consumer of opinions, even as guides. If you're shopping from one source, that's okay, but if you find yourself disagreeing with that source constantly, perhaps you need to find another source that's more in line with your own personal tastes. On my blog, I've always just done my personal, honest opinion on everything, without holding back in the slightest. I'm not really looking to influence others' opinions that much, I'm more trying to entertain them with my own opinion, and perhaps provide a little insight to how I think when I'm watching a particular anime. Homosexual ninjas piloting robots? Sounds like a hit! Fund it! I don't think I've ever been told I've "ruined Christmas". I think it's something I would like to strive for. I don't think I've ever heard of the anime you were talking about. I don't see the draw to Key anime. It seems like a lot of copy-and-paste, with the same generic "anime character design", character types, plots, and melodrama. Maybe because I've not sat down and watched entire series, all I'm getting is a window view of it, but I honestly can't stand the trend of similar programs. They feel so creatively bankrupt. I love Mike Toole's input. He is a great reviewer and interesting personality in the anime industry. He's always interesting to hear from and I'm glad he was on the podcast this week. I'm a AWO fan, too. I loved their Bubblegum Crisis review. I always get paranoid, though, when I hear about crazy fan behavior. Am I like that? I have a feeling I am, at least on occasion. At least when it comes to English dubs. My standards can be impossibly high at times, I've been told. A very compelling podcast this week, Zac. I always like hearing about the ins and outs of anime reviews, because I feel it helps me on my own. Plus, it's fun to hear about others' painful stories. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
|
|||||
|
Man, you guys are way too nice. Thanks for all your comments and I'm glad you enjoyed the show.
We will definitely be talking more about reviews in a future episode, and I am planning a show where we have some forum regulars on. |
||||||
|
||||||
rainbowcourage
 Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
|
|||||
|
I definitely enjoyed this week's installment as a blogger/reviewer myself. It made me think about technique, and I agree that many reviewers have a tendency to weave plot summary in and out of a piece. Not a good habit.
And what I'm looking forward to (and I can't foresee this not happening) is a Theron/Carl episode. 
|
||||||
|
||||||
Greed1914
 Posts: 4447 |
|
|||||
Agreed. There is only so much time in the day, so it's not really fair to the viewer to have to sit through hours of material just to get to where the show possibly gets better. On a different note, this was my favorite podcast so far because it was so informative. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
The King of Harts
Posts: 6712 Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia |
|
|||||
That sounds like an awesome idea, but what would you talk about with them? I get the feeling it would turn into a talk show-type deal where you guys ask them questions about their fandom. I guess if you pick the right people, funny and witty and not too uptight, it could be really good. Or, if you pick the wrong people, it'd take a faster nosedive than a duck from Duck Hunt. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
|
|||||
Ah, right now the short list is: - Case - PetrifiedJello - DomFortress lol |
||||||
|
||||||
LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
|
|||||
Indeed that is a lol. Good podcast and very informative. |
||||||
|
||||||
seattlescotsman
 Posts: 39 Location: Seattle |
|
|||||
|
Zac said:
"(Witchblade) is a direct adaptation of an American (comic)." -- from about 3:00 into the podcast I'd just like to point out that the Witchblade anime only shares the vaguest of similarities with the comic book -- namely, that the Witchblade is something that can only be worn by a woman, and that there is a lot of fan service. Besides this, the two creations are nothing alike. The Witchblade comic book is a gritty supernatural crime series that follows Sarah Pezzini, a detective in modern-day New York. She accidentally is bound to the Witchblade, which is a sentient supernatural artifact. While the Witchblade encourages the wearer's appetite for destruction in both the anime and comic, in the comic it does so by speaking to her, has its own agenda, and tries to influence her will, but does not destroy the wearer's body (as it does in the anime). No characters or settings are alike (or even similar) between the two creations. Also, the role of the Witchblade itself is very different between the two -- in the comic, it is a sentient force to be used in a supernatural battle between the Angelus and Darkness, two equally-terrible spiritual forces fighting for control of the world. In the anime, the Witchblade is just a mechanical weapon, and is used to fight in human wars against other mechanical weapons, for corporate power/wealth. I just thought I'd point this out, because I thought it was a little unfair to compare the anime to the comic. Not that I would say the anime doesn't feel like a comic book -- it does. It just doesn't feel like the Witchblade comic book. It feels more like a Saturday morning superhero cartoon, remade for adults. (on a side note, for anyone thinking about reading the Witchlade comic, I recommend starting when Ron Marz started writing the series, as he kind of rebooted the whole thing a couple of years ago, and it's pretty good). |
||||||
|
||||||
|
The King of Harts
Posts: 6712 Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia |
|
|||||
-I like PJ. It'll be interesting/weird to hear his voice. -I'll reserve my comments Actually, the more I think about, the more I look forward to it. I hope you plan on doing one soon. |
||||||
|
||||||
Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||||
If you just want chaos then you should totally think about Mario with a bunch of numbers trailing. 
|
||||||
|
||||||
Prede
 Posts: 388 |
|
|||||
|
Very interesting podcast. I find the stuff about how to write reviews, the problems with fanreviews, and other good points on how to make a review interesting, quite usefull. Mostly because I'm trying to write my own reviews for certain anime out there. And personally when I read reviews I want the reviewers to be subjective, I want to hear their opinion, and I want to know why they hate or love the show. I want thier opinions to be backed up by facts, but in essence it's still an opinion. But if they disagree with what I think about it, I'm still ganna throw in my two cents. I always do that. I think a lot of people are like that through. It's just a normal reaction.
And yes there are a lot of reviews out there that are just plot summery for like 5 paragraphs, and then one paragraph of real substance  . That doesn't really help anyone. When I first started writing reviews (for some small website no one ever heard of), my editor (she's an editor for some small newspaper as a side job) used to tell me I did that all the time. It's really tought to get out of that sometimes. But she did help me very much, and I like to think my reviews have gotten better with time. I look back at some of my older reviews through and really roll my eyes at what I've written. I think like "really I wrote that...ewww. Ughh...what was I thinking when I wrote that". Like everything, you get better at it the more you do it, although having an editor (for a short time) sure did help me out a lot. I got a lot better at it over a very short period of time, and it's not like I've been doing it forever either. It's only about a year now that I've been writing reviews. (Currently I just write reviews for my blog no one reads, if anyone was wondering)
Oh and Box Set reviews > Single Volume Reviews everytime. I find them much more useful, then a review on a specific couple of episodes. Reviews of an entire show/season are much more useful to me, because I want to know if the show is good in general, rather then a couple of episodes are good/bad but who knows what's to come? I like to buy the entire series, even if it's a single release. So I want to know the whole idea and gist of the show, and their opinion on the entire thing. I'm happy to see more reviews this way, so that's good. And Zac it's not just when you give Clannad, Kanon, and Air type shows bad reviews that anger fans. You think if you gave Full Metal Alchemist, Princess Mononoke or Cowboy Bebop a bad, no even a mediocre review there wouldn't be a crapstorm on the forums? If you actually looked at these series critically, subjectively and reviewed them pretty hard, or gave them anything lower then a B you'd piss everyone off and the forums would be on fire. Even if you had good points, and made perfect sense people would get mad and complain. I think the reason this is, is because there is this huge "group think" thing going on in anime fandom. Think about it. Miyazaki is always perfect no matter what, Key shows are great, and anything touched by Shinichirō Watanabe is full of cool (in fans minds, no matter what the reality is). Sure you could argue that those shows always are good, but in my opinion that's silly, it's much more likely just some groupthink thing going on here. Another groupthink thing going on is "dubs are alwasy bad". No matter what, some people just think dubs are always bad. "There can be no good English dubs! Japanese > English DUh!11! The original is always better" Come on, realistically there have to be good dubs, and there have to be bad dubs. They all can't be bad. It's the same thing with certian types of shows. They all can't be good. Not every Miyazaki movie is going to be good , not everything Kyoto Animation does is ganna be good. That's impossible. People need to drop the whole groupthink that these things are masterpeices before even seeing them, and just watch them for what they are sometimes. Anime fandom is filled with this "groupthink mentality" and if you say anything that goes against it, no matter how much evidence you have to back it up, your always the wrong one. Your always the person who's stupid. It's never the giant group of crazy people yelling "GRRR Full Metal Alchemist is a MASTERPIECE!!11!one! How can you even think to say something bad about it!!!1!one!". Even though it's an opinion to begin with! Groupthink is a real problem in many fandoms but more so in this one. Now I'm not saying people should go against what everyone thinks for the hell of it, or to be some iconoclast or something, but they should give their real opinions and they should think subjectively about the shows, and not worry about what others think about them. Oh and to finish this off about reviews, there's another thing that bothers me generally. There's a lot of negative reviews out there. Sometimes I feel a reviewer doesn't like anything. I mean I kind of get why some of these people are jaded, but please review something you think is good sometime. I can understand why all postive reviews are anoying. But review after review of the whys and hows of an anime sucking are no fun either. I don't agree with the whole idea "90% of everything is crap". There's a hell of a lot of good anime out there, at least there's more then enough for me to watch. There has to be about the same amount of anime these reviews like as well, so they should spend a little more time reviewing those titles. I like to hear both good and bad reviews. I don't want them to force it or anything, but it's just nice to hear both types of reviews. I think reviewers should try and aim for that a little. Last edited by Prede on Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:21 pm; edited 7 times in total |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group