Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2007-05-04]
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Fiction Alchemist
Posts: 438 |
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Delete.
Last edited by Fiction Alchemist on Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Steventheeunuch
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The problem with the word respect, from my own experiences, comes from the idea that it's actually a more polite way of saying 'tolerate', however, people imply tolerance, and then others expect 'respect' in turn. It's a huge problem using one word to describe another, when the two words do not actually mean the exact same thing.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16939 |
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Personally, I appreciate friends who will call me a douchebag when I act like one. Better to be told honestly you're acting like an ass by those close to you, instead of no one saying it and you keep acting like a douchebag. As for this bookstore crap, I've said it before so I'll say it again; Why the bloody hell are people so anal about this? Be grateful the kids are reading and not spray painting your damn car. Plus, I find it rather hypocritical of all you people bashing the "manga kids" and not EVERYONE ELSE IN A BOOKSTORE. So it's ok if I read a magazine, or a cooking book, or some of the newest Laurel K. Hamilton book right? Heaven forbid I read a manga though, I should be boiled alive right? Give me a break. All you whiners harp on the kids reading manga but never mention any of the other kids or adults reading other pieces in the bookstore. So what it boils down to is you're just whining because they read what YOU wanted to read. Now that's hypocritical AND selfish. I'm amazed, and disgusted, by the fact that our educational system is such a joke. Yet here are some kids trying to read something instead of getting into trouble yet they're admonished for reading. Nice message you're sending out. Last edited by Redbeard 101 on Sun May 06, 2007 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Steroid
 Posts: 329 Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be |
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Yes, that's a point. But to get to that point, several sub-points have to be reached. One is getting people in. Another is keeping them happy with your store. A wise bookstore does not just want to "sell me a book." They want to sell me many books, over the course of my life. They want to keep me out of their competitors' stores. They want me to think positively of them. There are several factors they can use to do this. One is allowing me to read the books in-store.
If that is their point, and if refusing to allow me to read manga in-store is going to prevent me from buying because I'm now ticked at the store, doesn't that work entirely against the point? In other words, which attitude does the bookstore prefer its customers have? -I want to buy manga. I need to get it from <bookstore>. Let me get in and get out as soon as possible because all they want to do is sell me a book. -I want to buy manga. Everyone at <bookstore> is nice and I always have a good time there. I'll read some manga and buy one, and then go back a few weeks later.
Yes, in a purely economic sense. But in the sense of reputation it's a huge credit, more than an unknown manga. If I were a manga publisher, and looking for a translator, I might well play that up as a way to save money.
Yes, they're losing money, but they're not losing. They're just exchanging money for inventory. And yes they are potential buyers, but not in the quantity of which they read manga. It's a choice of let them read n manga and buy m manga, or let them read no manga and buy m-prime manga. But buying n manga is not a potential.
And what if the parents abdicate that job? Should the store take a moral stand and lose money? Or deal with it as best as they can? Also, even if some manga cows never buy anything, some will buy books and some will buy refreshments. Again, you balance that against what you can get by being adversarial. But take into account all the costs of the adversarial approach.
Only problem there is crowd control. Letting people into the stadium free would be likely to cause injury and hazard. However, if that were not a consideration, then I would say absolutely.
How many cows will be cows for all points of their life? Even if it takes ten years for the cow to decide to buy something, I think most of them will.
No, that's not what I'm saying (not here, at least). What I'm saying is that there are right and wrong ways to charge and pay. And charging per read is akin to when Homer Simpson charged people to see and ride Bart's elephant, starting at $1/$2, bumping up to $100/$500, and then trying to collect the difference from people who already rode it. If charging for the use of a book that a person has bought is all right, then so is retroactive charging. At some point, we have to say that the power lies in the hands of the consumer, not the producer. |
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Strephon
Posts: 177 |
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Wow. How many specious arguments are contained in this one statement? 1. This is a forum for discussing anime and manga, not cookbooks, genre fiction, or magazines (except inasmuch as they're anime/manga related). Therefore, people have been staying on-topic rather than turning it into a generalized complaint about "things that annoy us in bookstores." 2. I don't think anyone who's against the problem feels that other parts of the bookstore should be wildly different; it's not hypocrisy, it's just keeping the argument focused. 3. Has anyone reported this behavior in the magazine, cookbook or genre fiction sections? (By which I mean not just reading the material but reading the entire item in lieu of buying it--as opposed to just browsing--while lying in the way of other patrons, and possibly damaging it.) I've never seen it in any of those sections at my local Borders, but I have seen it in the manga section. 4. Cookbooks and genre fiction are a bad analogy. Cookbooks are generally purchased to be used, not read for the plot, so there'd be little purpose to sitting and reading one cover to cover. Very little genre fiction can be read in one reasonable-length sitting, so fewer people are likely to make a practice of reading it in-store in lieu of buying it--it would take a fair amount of dedication to read an entire 700-page Laurell K. Hamilton in the store. Sitting and reading a chapter to decide whether to buy it is a separate issue. People may read entire magazines in the store, but I don't think anyone here particularly feels differently about magazines than manga in that respect. 5. Manga has only recently risen above the level of a niche section of most bookstores, and could return there if sellers don't find that the rewards are worth it, while magazines, cookbooks and genre fiction are well-established and not likely to go anywhere. Poor behavior on the part of patrons of that section are a mark against it; poor behavior that also decreases its profitability is a major mark against it. 6. No one is against people reading, in general or manga specifically. However, there's such a thing as an appropriate and an inappropriate way to do something, even if it's worth doing normally. Sitting and reading something without paying for it is appropriate in a library, less so (depending on specific circumstances) in a bookstore, and inappopriate when it inconveniences others (especially when it can be done without that inconvenience). 7. Yet again, we find an argument which basically boils down to people arguing against the statement "Don't be a jerk"--it seems there have been a lot of those lately. Is "Don't be a jerk and ruin it for everyone" really that difficult a concept? |
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Ahiru
 Posts: 62 Location: ...just a duck in Oregon |
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My local library is quite small, and it has about 4 shelves worth of manga, and around 3 shelves of anime. However, all the libraries in the county are on a linked system, and if you are a library card holder you can order any title in the system, and have it sent to your local library for pickup. I've checked out over a hundred anime titles (series, OAVs, and movies) from the system so far (probably about half-way through the catalog, and they continue adding more) The manga catalog is even larger. My local branch has a preponderance of Dark Horse titles; probably because it's (literally) down the street from Dark Horse Comics - about 3 blocks! |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Intellectual Property is hard to classify (from a "cost" perspective) because it is inconsistent. A Takahashi work might definitely sell for $10/book but a "Random mangaka" work might not sell for $5/book, so it's not a "fixed" cost product it is entirely dependent on the interest and choice of the buyer. To that end, there are three types of anime/manga buyers:
A. People who will buy the product, period. B. People who will buy what they "like" (the "like" is a variable target but does require some investigation/reading/viewing to determine) C. People who will never buy the product, period. Like with fansubs, the argument comes down to this: How big is group A and how passionate about their opinion are they? Because at the end of the day, you're arguing, is the inconvenience from C (and to a lesser extent, B) worth losing sales to A in order to GAIN sales to B? C is never going to buy the product, if you let them read, they will, if you stop them from reading, they'll leave, BUT, B will also leave and you'll be left with only A. The domestic anime market (and to a lesser and only partially related extent, the American comic book market) shows that the passionate fanbase is dedicated and focused, but also relatively small. If you add people from outside this market, you increase your sales base, but there will be a loss in "passion" for the product. Cartoon Network anime shows that if you let lots of people check out a series for "free" then more people will buy it than if you DON'T do this. The point being, it depends on the makeup of your customer base. If the standard Borders has a customer base that is say 10 people, 5 are type A, 1 is type B and 4 are type C, then it's probably a net loss for them to have the grazing as they might be losing sales to A over the actions of the B&C groups. If they come out with net sales to only 3 people they're losing 2-3 of the As because the 1 B might not be buying and the 4 Cs are just hurting product. OTOH, if the store sees 2 As, 6 Bs and 2 Cs, then they're probably seeing a net gain in sales as the 2 As are probably able to find product acceptable to them and if you only sell to 50% of the Bs, you're still seeing +3 sales for 5 total, vs. only 2 sales if your new business practice discourages the Bs & Cs from coming. But then, this is all theory and the anime industry disagrees with me on the notion that a large part of their sales is derived from customers who WILL purchase a favorite once they become attached to it, but would ignore many series (and maybe even anime as a whole for the most part) if left without a "free" method to check things out. I also think people are a LITTLE hypersensitive about book "condition". Don't get me wrong, if you buy a book new, you should get it "new", but if the cover is not COMPLETELY flat, I don't see that as a problem. OTOH, if there are visible creases in the cover or tears or rips to the property, you HAVE damaged the property and should be forced to buy it for the damage you inflicted. But if the cover just "bows" outward because the book has been open for a while, that's going to happen once it's read and just deal with it (and shelve it between other books to try to flatten it again), not everything needs to be owned with an assumption of "collectibility" and a thought toward "perfect condition" unless you're just REALLY anal. Visible creases on the cover can hurt the cover art and rips and tears can hurt the reading experience, normal "wear" on the book that doesn't hurt reading is not a problem IMO. That said, I pondered the idea of opening a manga cafe, but if I did something like that, the whole grazing phenomenon would be a "competitor" to business. Because that happens so blatantly, I'm not sure if a manga cafe is viable or not. :\ |
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WesW
 Posts: 144 |
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This was a long post from page 3, so I won't quote the whole thing here. Anyway, I just wanted to say that this was one of the best posts I have ever read here, on any topic in any thread. From the column:
If you believe in the multi-verse theory, I think that our reality contains a relatively rare Zac, and that in most universes he is a feminist author rather than an anime reviewer/editor. 
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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I don't see how the two are mutually exclusive. Based on what I've seen Zac put up for public consumption I totally believe he writes such screeds in his spare time. Now, he may not currently be a PUBLISHED feminist author, but that's a different point entirely. (but then, I bet he uses a woman's pen name for that so he'll be taken seriously, just like he pretends to be a man in anime circles, really "Zac" is just a program designed to spit out pompous statements denouncing anime fans and trying to prop up the faltering anime industry, it was put in place a few years ago when ANN was bought out by a consortium of anime companies in an effort to sell you half-@ssed product and keep you from ever getting the good anime) 
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Eos
 Posts: 168 Location: Jersey |
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....what? I think you're digging a little deep for counter arguments. It's enough to defend Belldandy without unleashing "the rage" against everything from Shonen Jump girls to Pretty Woman.
I can't for the life of me come up with a moment when Orihime was "a piece of property." |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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How far are you in the manga? (spoiler comments are unreleased chapter info) spoiler[Granted, they're the villians, but in the current manga chapters that is EXACTLY how the Espada and Aizen are treating her. ] And of course, with respect to Ichigo, Inoue is strikingly similar to Belldandy in behavior except more ditzy and spacey. I LIKE Inoue, but if someone is going to slam Belldandy and then say Bleach has great women, I'd like to know what Inoue does that is "better" than Belldandy. Shonen JUMP is targetted to young boys, and Afternoon (which AMG runs in) is targetted to men, as such I wouldn't really expect EITHER book to have the leg up on the other in terms of female depiction, but if I HAD to pick one, I'd put my money on Afternoon since the SJ demographic has many boys who probably still think girls have cooties. |
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Ama no Kagaseo
Posts: 5 |
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-Raises hand.- I made this account specifically for replying to this topic. I'm not sure if you should expect any further activity from me after this point, as I'm not very big anime fan. Especially amongst so many here.
However, I'll admit something before going on. Keep in mind, this should not bring frowns upon my opinions and actions. My opinions are equally as valid as anyone else's. This isn't to say I will disagree with any arguments sent my way. I speak of opinions, and everyone is entitled to opinions until they start to tell people otherwise. Debate is fun. Stay away from drugs! That little bit aside.. I'm going to admit. I'm what some of you could call a 'manga' cow. I'll sit there, and I'll read. If I like it, I'll buy it when I have the money. [I'm, I guess.. Lower class? Maybe Upper lower class. I barely have money for manga every once n' a while, much less a full blown DVD.] But the fact of the matter, I read without paying for it. I read about two pages back, and not all of the content. So.. If this has already been said, sorry. I felt the need to speak up. I read, to make sure I like the product. If I like it, I say "Okay, when I can, I'll buy this." and I'll leave. I don't want to buy something I wont ever use again. I don't want to pick up a product, and regret it later on. I've already done that once. -Glares at his copy of Rebirth.- So, when I do have money, I can spend hours in a book store deciding what I want to buy. So, since you don't know what everyone's intentions are, let it go. How many of these people do you see AGAIN after leaving the book store, steamed? Probably none. Let it go and move on. For all you know they went back and bought it. I will say this: People who read without buying -whatsoever- should be shot in my humble opinion. [Don't mind me. I could have shortened that to IMHO but I detest chatspeak.] But most of the people we speak of may not even belong to that group. ______________________________________________________________ Furthermore, I agree hands down with Zac, I believe their name is. I dislike Belldandy as a character because she feels very fake to me. My fiance is a huge fan of the series, and this isn't to say it's a BAD series. However.. How many women do you know will be a doormat like that? None. I do find Sakura to be slightly more realistic as the series progresses. But, I haven't read/watched Naruto for quite some time. [For reasons which shall not be said, but I'm sure some understand.] Last I recall, she became a much stronger woman when Sasuke left. Bleach has much better examples of strong women that do not really make the main cast. Let's take a look at the women of the Soul Society, putting obvious characters aside. And I'm REALLY fond of Yoruichi. She's very strong, and motherly. If that isn't a good portrayal of a woman I don't know what is. So in some aspects, I do believe Bleach to have more realistic women. Not perfect, but some good examples are present which should not be over looked just for the sake of counter-arguments. Perhaps I stand in a very small group of people, but I enjoy the Answerman reviews, and rants. I'd never take them personally, and... Really, they kind of make my day. They're so fiery, not angry. They've got fighting spirit in them! Woo! Randomness aside, I think a good majority of people that do get upset should take a step back and calm down. But, people say I'm naturally stoned. I swear it's a birth defect that just keeps me from getting wound up. I'm too mellow. -.- |
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Eos
Posts: 168 Location: Jersey |
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True Orihime's weaker, but she's a dynamic character who strives to improve herself, even if she's ditzy. I think what's "better" about her is that she has her own goals and aspirations. To be fair, there’s nothing wrong in liking Belldandy, but she’s more of an accessory to Keiichi, she exists to make him happy. Belldandy is less of a person as she is a concept, the ideal woman the usual bloke don't have a chance at landing. Of course Aizen treats her badly, you'd expect that kind of behavior from a bad guy character. 
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5633 Location: Southern California |
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I object to the fact that you are calling yourself a "Manga Cow." You, our new friend, are not. YOU are a normal person trying to acertain wether or not you will enjoy something. Reading two or three pages doesn't consitute "grazing." "Nibbling" perhaps but not "grazing." My definition of a "Manga Cow" is the person who collects either one at time or a huge stack of manga, sits either on the floor or in a chair, reads said manga and NEVER BUYS A SINGLE VOLUME. That is a "Manga Cow." Not you. |
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Iritscen
 Posts: 793 |
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No, don't leave! You just got here! Get to know us and our personality defects better! (Also, we don't criticize people on this board just because they aren't well-versed in obscure anime. You clearly are beyond the "All I like is [insert latest Shonen Jump title here]" point of fandom, so I'm sure I can speak for others when I say your input is always welcome here.)
You missed the first usage of the term "manga cow", which, as LydiaDianne just pointed out, referred to consuming the entire work (or several volumes at a sitting), rather than "nibbling" as you do. Nibbling is nothing to feel guilty over.
We don't use chatspeak much on this board, so you fit right in, btw, FYI, kthxbye.
You're male, aren't you? So you have a fiancee, not a fiance. Sorry, but that's been bugging me lately.
Introducing the handy-dandy spoiler tag. (Hit the spoiler button when posting to label the selected text a spoiler that you have to point to in order to see what's underneath.)
We need more people like that here. Seriously. |
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