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INTEREST: Best and Worst Manga of 2018 Results - Comic-Con International


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Hikaru Suzuhara



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 88
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:13 am Reply with quote
Shounen. Seinen. Shoujo. Josei.

Quick! For those that don't already know, which one do you think Happy Sugar Life falls under? It must be either Seinen or Shoujo right? Well .... no.

See, manga are labeled these simply for the kind of magazine they are serialized in. Happy Sugar Life is Shounen because it is being serialized in Square Enix's Shounen manga magazine Gangan Joker. In other words, Happy Sugar Life is a “Boys” manga because it's serialized in a “Boys” magazine.

For another example, K-on, a work known for having a sizable female fanbase is a Seinen because it was serialized in Manga Time Kirara, a Seinen (mens) magazine. Springs 2018's Comic Girls was Seinen too for the same reason. It's serialized in the same Seinen magazine, Manga Time Kirara Max, as Is the Order a Rabbit? and Kin-iro Mosaic.
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Uthred



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 79
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:41 am Reply with quote
Kakegurui is for "Grown Ups" and The Promised Neverland (or Welcome to the Ballroom) is for kids? The categories are a mess.
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Jose Cruz



Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 1778
Location: South America
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:17 am Reply with quote
Aquasakura wrote:
Jose Cruz wrote:


I guess it is mainly the western habit of associating the age of the characters (or their apparent age in the case of Land of the Lustrous) to the age of the intended audience. This western habit is particularly problematic when one looks at manga since its very common in adult manga to feature children and teenager protagonists.

Yuru Camp is obviously a seinen manga made for men who are interested in camping but since it's characters are teenager girls they think the audience for it are teenager girls. Apparently even after one and a half decade of moe shows many western anime fans still haven't understood that currently slice of life anime shows featuring teenager girls as main characters are more often than not aimed at an adult male audience.
.


I don't see how this is a problem really, or more like I don't feel like that is a problem. I don't think this mindset is going to change anytime soon just because a half a decade now we have been slice of life anime starring people in their adolescent stages appearing on television, because even though we are familiar with those shows and their attended target demography, the wider population is not aware. Plus is this really a tendency for people to have this mindset in the Western hemisphere, or are you just talking the U.S?


I think it's a general tendency in the entire western hemisphere. Although I am not sure if it is as strong outside of the US as it is inside the US. That is because in the US they often categorize seinen manga as "teen books" usually because they feature teen main characters (for example, Wandering Son a very sophisticated manga about a transgender people).

I think it is a problem to categorize works of fiction incorrectly because manga titles aimed at demography X should be categorized for demography X because that group of people is the one that is going to enjoy it the most. I don't have any problem if people of all demographics are consuming some work of fiction but I think that might happen more frequently if it's core demographics are first correctly targeted. So I think that categorizing adult manga as teen material is not going to help it's sales in the long run.

Quote:
tasogarenootome wrote:
Yuru Camp runs in a seinen magazine, but is pretty much harmless in terms of objectionable content, unless you’re afraid it might entice someone to go camping. Plus, younger kids tend to like reading about characters a little older than themselves, so I think it would be good for a middle schooler who likes the outdoors.


That is so true, and I see this tendency with kids who like to watch the Marvel Cinematic Universe despite ratings saying otherwise. I also agree Laid Back Camp would be an excellent manga to share with children who are attending middle school. Anime smile If I had a c child or children I would not mind sharing this manga with them.


I don't think I would have enjoyed anything like that before I became an adult, things featuring more aggression and drama would suit my teenager self much better. Besides I couldn't consume fiction featuring female main characters when I was a teenager (I was quite close minded back then). Also if you look at the teenagers at MAL they often are the ones who complain about slice of life killing anime. My Hero Academia is more suited for teens.
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psiho66



Joined: 09 Feb 2016
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:30 am Reply with quote
Lord Oink wrote:
Sheriru wrote:
Land of the Lustrous for "Kids/Teens"?
Kids and Teens???

Are we talking about the same Story?


I'm more interested in Detective Conan being lumped in under 'adult series', but stuff like My Hero Academia is for kids. They're both for kids.



*Teens, while Teens are kids in fiction, stories for kids and Teens are separate. And Shounen is Teen fiction.
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psiho66



Joined: 09 Feb 2016
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:42 am Reply with quote
octopodpie wrote:
Jonny Mendes wrote:
Kakegurui, Detective Conan, Silver Spoon that are for Shonen (kids/teens) are "Series for Grown-Ups" in the US?

Land of the Lustrous, Delicious in Dungeon, Laid-Back Camp, Dead Dead Demon's Dededede Destruction that are for Seinen (young adults) are "Series for Kids/Teens" in the US?

Maybe there some mess up when writing the article and there will be a correction from ANN. If not, who chose this manga demographics in the US? Are they reading the stories?


Just here to clarify that the groupings are based on the PowerPoint from the panel and not an error/mistake in the article.



Doesn't make sense why Shounen titles who are for Teenage boys are marked for grown ups and Seinen titles who are for Adult males are marked for Kids/Teens. Its straight up factually wrong.
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psiho66



Joined: 09 Feb 2016
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:44 am Reply with quote
Uthred wrote:
Kakegurui is for "Grown Ups" and The Promised Neverland (or Welcome to the Ballroom) is for kids? The categories are a mess.


Actually the section is Kids/Teens and all 3 of those titles are Shounen aka. Male Teen aimed (and yes Kakegurui is the wrong place along with a big number of other titles on this list)
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Chrno2



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 6171
Location: USA
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:49 pm Reply with quote
Ashita no Joe would be perfect for classic stuff. Don't know if 'Fist of the North Star' could fit in any library. But I passed a few suggestions over to 'Seven Seas Entertainment', because they have a survey that you can fill out of what titles you'd like to see. So I tossed around some classics since they released the 'Devilman' and 'Harlock' books.
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Aquasakura



Joined: 01 Jan 2014
Posts: 700
Location: Chesterfield, Virginia, U.S.A
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:54 pm Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
Here in the forums we are prohibited from posting lists without explanation of why the items are on the list.

If I didn't already understand why, these lists would explain that rule, especially the "worst" list.


Uh-huh! It would have been nice if we had gotten some explanation (at least a short) to why the titles on listed accordingly.

Hikaru Suzuhara wrote:

See, manga are labeled these simply for the kind of magazine they are serialized in. Happy Sugar Life is Shounen because it is being serialized in Square Enix's Shounen manga magazine Gangan Joker. In other words, Happy Sugar Life is a “Boys” manga because it's serialized in a “Boys” magazine.


That is another factor as well. In fact I believe there was a discussion about this before, but it does remind me how demography is determine is Japan is quite different from how it's done in the U.S. Using one of my favorite anime as an example one would think that this anime titled Little Witch Academia by Studio TRIGGER one would think the story would targeted for girls given the cast of characters and if this were to get publish here it might be marketed to such audiences, but instead you got one that is label seinen and other shounen and it's all due to that they were both serialized in magazines that are targeted for those audiences. There is one other LWA manga that is an exception as it is label a shojo manga, but that to is also due to it being serialized in a magazine for girls (that and it had both the character designs and comic panel formatting of a typical shoju manga).

Jose Cruz wrote:

I think it's a general tendency in the entire western hemisphere. Although I am not sure if it is as strong outside of the US as it is inside the US. That is because in the US they often categorize seinen manga as "teen books" usually because they feature teen main characters (for example, Wandering Son a very sophisticated manga about a transgender people).

I think it is a problem to categorize works of fiction incorrectly because manga titles aimed at demography X should be categorized for demography X because that group of people is the one that is going to enjoy it the most. I don't have any problem if people of all demographics are consuming some work of fiction but I think that might happen more frequently if it's core demographics are first correctly targeted. So I think that categorizing adult manga as teen material is not going to help it's sales in the long run.


I see, but I wonder if they would really. Even if they were categorize in their correct demography there are going to be some who would still think some of those titles are for a younger audience given main cast and the focus of the story.

Also, as Hikaru points out demography in manga is determine by what magazines the titles get publish under, and some of those titles people in the U.S would not expect to be targeted for a certain demography. There are romance stories publish under shounen magazines for example when the romance genre in the U.S is generally consider to be something women and girls are into. Also, like the example I mention above Little Witch Academia would most likely be something that would be consider targeted for girl in the U.S, but instead it's label as either targeting boys or young men, and there is nothing in the story really to indicate that LWA is directly meant for boys/young men either unlike in other series like Dragonball by Akira Toriyama which is clearly targeted for boys given the presentation of it, or Comic Party written by Sekihiko Inui if you are familiar with the manga given both the cast of characters and the themes or situations the story focuses on.

So there is both what Hikaru brought up and the general expectations people in the U.S have as appose to the general expectations the people of Japan have that you have to deal with, or get over for that matter. It's probably for this reason why the manga are listed in their expected categories (the one dealing with respective ages of course). Now perhaps if whoever is publishing those manga did happen to just advertise them with their respective demography they had in Japan perhaps what you mention could happen but I have this feeling it might not happen over here (not unless there is a major shift in culture that changes people views on literature).

Jose Cruz wrote:

I don't think I would have enjoyed anything like that before I became an adult, things featuring more aggression and drama would suit my teenager self much better. Besides I couldn't consume fiction featuring female main characters when I was a teenager (I was quite close minded back then). Also if you look at the teenagers at MAL they often are the ones who complain about slice of life killing anime. My Hero Academia is more suited for teens.


Well when I was a teenager I enjoy slice of life shows. In fact around the time I began to become aware of Japanese animation is when I was watching a slice of life shows, and it was a nice change of pace from other shows I watch that were either comedy skits or action adventure (even though the Adventure genre is one of my favorites). It was one of the main reason why I find Japanese animation appealing. Also, I didn't mind when a show star a female lead and in fact welcome it with open arms.

But seriously when I was agreeing with tasogarenootome that Laid Back Camp would be good for adolescence, I was speaking in a general sense so I was not just referring to adolescents who are part of the anime fandom. Of course people are going to have preferences for what they like to read and not everyone is going to be interested in reading Laid Back Camp nor like the story, but there those who would be interested in this manga series and would end up enjoying it.
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melmouth



Joined: 19 May 2012
Posts: 167
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:34 pm Reply with quote
This list is a Godsend to me. I'm an old man who's been reading manga in translation for 9 years. The vast majority of manga are clearly not meant for people like me. They are built around the sensibilities and passtimes of young people. I used to occasionally find one that I liked among the many thousand, but now not many.

Some of the categories in this list are like custom-made for me to pick from. The presence of "Yokohama Kaidashi Koki" in one of the lists seals the deal.

I'm saving it!
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