×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
ANNCast - I Think We're Alone Now


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:54 pm Reply with quote
It depends what you consider good animation: Good choreography and cinematography, or a baseline of high frames-per-second? I've seen instances of that latter which don't impress because of how static and boring the shots were. Vice-versa; a show with not that big of a budget can make up for it with it's cinematography and choreography and push it above.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Myaow



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 1068
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:21 pm Reply with quote
reanimator wrote:
Zac, may I suggest Ben Ettinger of Anipage Daily for another try? His opinion on anime isn't what you're looking for, but he has the eye for art that puts anime fans to shame. Come on, he analyzed Dir. Mamoru Hosoda's directorial style in 2004 on his blog. That's years before anyone else.

I consider him as Giorgio Vasari of Japanese animation because he introduced history of Japanese animation from biographical standing to us westerners.

When Daryl Surat starts to talk about Sakuga fans and Ichiro Itano, you can tell that he was influenced by the blog.


Oh yeah! Ettinger's writing is so interesting, I'd love to hear him speak about animation.

I wish I were one of those "sakuga" guys who can tell the key animator of a scene just by looking at it, but my eyes aren't quite there yet. (I'm working on it! I've been able to pick out Yoshihiko Umakoshi a couple of times!) It'd be awesome if Ettinger could come onto the show and tell us his secrets!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Farix



Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 152
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:28 pm Reply with quote
Galap wrote:
Yeah, the one area that this podcast has yet to really explore is the vast area of animation itself. There's an extreme wealth of discussion to be had about animation in multiple facets, and the show hasn't really gone there yet.

Personally, I prefer that ANNCast stick to covering the anime and manga industry rather than turn into another critics' podcast. The latter are a dime a dozen while the former is critically scarce. RightStuf Anime Today was the only other podcast that covered the industry (mostly in the form of interviews with VAs) but it is defunct now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14783
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:11 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
It depends what you consider good animation: Good choreography and cinematography, or a baseline of high frames-per-second? I've seen instances of that latter which don't impress because of how static and boring the shots were. Vice-versa; a show with not that big of a budget can make up for it with it's cinematography and choreography and push it above.


Yep, s'why I like Alfred Hitchcock films. The guy didn't need modern production tech to do what he did.

More recently, a show that combined good animation, choreography, cinematography, fps, etc. is The Legend of Korra. Particularly impressive for an action show for not cutting much corners.


Myaow wrote:

I wish I were one of those "sakuga" guys who can tell the key animator of a scene just by looking at it, but my eyes aren't quite there yet. (I'm working on it! I've been able to pick out Yoshihiko Umakoshi a couple of times!) It'd be awesome if Ettinger could come onto the show and tell us his secrets!


Maybe he took a few animation courses or hang around animators circles? Can learn a lot even just by doing plain as that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Galap
Moderator


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2354
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:13 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
It depends what you consider good animation: Good choreography and cinematography, or a baseline of high frames-per-second? I've seen instances of that latter which don't impress because of how static and boring the shots were. Vice-versa; a show with not that big of a budget can make up for it with it's cinematography and choreography and push it above.


Well, good cinematography will make a show look cool, and *usually* higher FPS will make an animation look better (though not always!), but what really gets me going is a good representation of geometry and physics: things like 3 dimensional rotations and shifting perspective, the ability to convey notions of momentum, force, and impact, and an understanding of the physical properties of matter in motion to convey a sense of material.

If this is done well, you get a sense of the space that the scene or shot takes place in, and can remember and picture it well in your mind; mentally walk through it as if remembering a real location. In action scenes especially, through good use of what I call 'geometrical kinetics', you can feel the character's pain in a fight, feel their straining muscles as they use their limbs and manipulate objects, and even feel the lines of force, mass and gravity in inanimate objects that are moving. It's the difference between animated characters and objects being mere puppets on strings and real physical bodies imbued with a convincing replica of the properties that real ones have.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
reanimator





PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:42 am Reply with quote
Anime World Order wrote:
reanimator wrote:
When Daryl Surat starts to talk about Sakuga fans and Ichiro Itano, you can tell that he was influenced by the blog.


Bit of an aside, as the rest of my comment is largely unrelated to the topics of this ANNCast: although it's true that I do think Ben Ettinger is awesome for doing the kind of legwork that can only really be done if you can actually read Japanese, Ben tends to like a lot of things I don't care about for reasons I generally place little emphasis upon (and vice versa). His approach to watching things and writing about them is more or less alien to me, so while I do try to remember to read Anipages--his coverage of Masaaki Yuasa is particularly excellent--I don't think I'd say I'm "influenced" by his stuff.


Ichiro Itano is on my radar for two reasons. One, because I've been a Macross fan for...hmm, I guess it's "decades" now! Two, Itano has directed several of the legendary "bad" anime titles I happen to have a soft spot for, such as Angel Cop and Violence Jack, so when he makes something I generally have to look at it.

I don't really know the whole sakuga scene much other than noticing how lately, people get angry at me when I say Birth totally sucks. I figure it must be that more people know who Yoshinori Kanada is after having found out that Gurren Lagann/Panty and Stocking's Hiroyuki Imaishi named him as a big influence. Being into key animation requires a certain personality type that I don't really have. So I'll watch the Youtube compilations and read the writeups, but that's the extent of it for me.


My apology for speculation.


farix wrote:
Galap wrote:
Yeah, the one area that this podcast has yet to really explore is the vast area of animation itself. There's an extreme wealth of discussion to be had about animation in multiple facets, and the show hasn't really gone there yet.

Personally, I prefer that ANNCast stick to covering the anime and manga industry rather than turn into another critics' podcast. The latter are a dime a dozen while the former is critically scarce. RightStuf Anime Today was the only other podcast that covered the industry (mostly in the form of interviews with VAs) but it is defunct now.


I understand that status of domestic anime & manga industry matters to fans of North America, but I think ANN covered enough and there are things that domestic companies can't talk openly. ANN can talk with European and Australian side, but subject matters may remain the same.

If fans want to talk about core anime and manga industry, then covering Japanese side is important because they are the ones who make them. Domestic companies take whatever Japan makes and rarely have resource to make their own property.
Back to top
Brakus



Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 130
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:54 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
DmonHiro wrote:
Oh for the love of GOD!!!! Just sit the hell down and watch Tiger & Bunny!!!! You want to know why you keep getting distracted? Easy? You like it, and you're afraid it's going to shit the bed, and you're going to get disappointed. Well, it's not. Lunatic has a back story you're not going to guess.

Anyway, if you drop it, it's your loss. I'll see you in 2 years when you say "Damn, why didn't I watch this earlier?!", like you did with Redline.


Well, at least you're being totally reasonable about it.


Indeed - and I'm telling you, the fans of this show will not lead you astray on this one. Stay the course, Zac (and Justin). You haven't gotten to episode 10 yet where it really starts to hit its stride....

Get all the way through the show, and then I hope you will still feel excited about Tiger and Bunny as most of us fans of the show do for the past year. Stay the course!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lostrune



Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Posts: 313
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:39 pm Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
Yep, s'why I like Alfred Hitchcock films. The guy didn't need modern production tech to do what he did.

More recently, a show that combined good animation, choreography, cinematography, fps, etc. is The Legend of Korra. Particularly impressive for an action show for not cutting much corners.


The Avatar series is always an example I see people use as an example of good framerate but terrible cinematography and choreography, and I would be hard pressed to disagree with them. It says a lot when a girl getting her teeth brushed in Nisemonogatari has better cinematography Laughing. Hitchcock would be proud of that scene, I bet.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14783
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:07 pm Reply with quote
lostrune wrote:
enurtsol wrote:
Yep, s'why I like Alfred Hitchcock films. The guy didn't need modern production tech to do what he did.

More recently, a show that combined good animation, choreography, cinematography, fps, etc. is The Legend of Korra. Particularly impressive for an action show for not cutting much corners.


The Avatar series is always an example I see people use as an example of good framerate but terrible cinematography and choreography, and I would be hard pressed to disagree with them.


Oh please, who's them? Other anime fans? Don't hear it from them neither. The production crews actually watch real martial artists do their choreography so they learn how movements actually work in fights, not just flashy poses after another. My martial artist friends are impressed. Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anymouse



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 685
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:27 pm Reply with quote
The simplest way to keep Japanese releases from having to compete against American releases, is to jack up the American price. I know some people will bitch and moan, but who really cares? If a show is good I will happily dump $200 on it once I have the money. If I don't like a show I simply don't want to dump my money on it at all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Farix



Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 152
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:34 pm Reply with quote
Anymouse wrote:
The simplest way to keep Japanese releases from having to compete against American releases, is to jack up the American price. I know some people will bitch and moan, but who really cares? If a show is good I will happily dump $200 on it once I have the money. If I don't like a show I simply don't want to dump my money on it at all.

Been tried, failed miserably. Americans refuses to buy anime at premium prices. It also doesn't help that the market is largely targeted to an audience that doesn't have a lot of disposable income to start with.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:35 pm Reply with quote
Anymouse wrote:
The simplest way to keep Japanese releases from having to compete against American releases, is to jack up the American price. I know some people will bitch and moan, but who really cares? If a show is good I will happily dump $200 on it once I have the money. If I don't like a show I simply don't want to dump my money on it at all.


That might work for some things, but the flow of licenses would dry up even faster than before. You can't expect everyone to drop $200 on the mediocre and average. Even then, that's still cheaper than the Japanese release.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SereneChaos



Joined: 14 Oct 2011
Posts: 384
Location: Middle of Nowhere, USA
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:55 pm Reply with quote
Anymouse wrote:
The simplest way to keep Japanese releases from having to compete against American releases, is to jack up the American price. I know some people will bitch and moan, but who really cares? If a show is good I will happily dump $200 on it once I have the money. If I don't like a show I simply don't want to dump my money on it at all.


The day anime costs that much in the US is the day I only buy manga. Even if there are shows I would be willing to spend $200 on, it's not financially possible for me and many others to do so. I can fork over $40 a few times a year, but not $200.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Annf



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 578
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:32 pm Reply with quote
Anymouse wrote:
If a show is good I will happily dump $200 on it once I have the money. If I don't like a show I simply don't want to dump my money on it at all.

I'm the same way.
There's not really anything in between those two for me.
Pretty much jumps from "well I liked it but not enough to watch it again" to "this was great, I'll pay whatever it takes to get the absolute best release."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anymouse



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 685
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:58 pm Reply with quote
And how can people say the market can't support this? As American fandom gradually converges on Japanese fandom (especially as parts of the American middle class converge on the Japanese "100 million middle class") we will find the markets get more and more similar. Moe sells in the U.S. today far better than it did 10 years ago, and the market may converge yet more.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 4 of 6

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group