Forum - View topicNEWS: Osaka Considers Regulating Boys-Love Materials
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BassKuroi
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I think Japanese government starts to feel the nuclear family, i.e. the capitalist mode of production, is threatened not by homosexual individuals or groups; but by new female citizens who don't feel the desire to create homes and raise children, and focalizing their libido by the consumption of this kind of mass-media products.
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bubblegumliam
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I believe you are mistaken, these issues are intertwined. The sterotypical belief is that the majority of pheodofiles are homosexuals. So when illustrators/animators produce maerial which involves CHILDREN engaging in gay sex, then that blurs the lines. Tken on face value it is not immediantly apperent but that is certainly what it connotates when you really look at it. That this child porn is gay porn, that all pheodofiles are homosexuals. As to say that this material is a form of 'ARTISTIC EXPRESSION' is utter nonsense. Art is defined by the dimentions used to create it and more importantly, has something meaningful to say. It should have chain of thought, development and an issues/issuses addressed. That it should behold something deeper and not to be taken at face value. Yaoi is not this, infact it is a form of kitsch. Material which is produced solely for the purpose of being taken at face value and mindlessly consumed by 'fans' who do not know any better. It is simply to be taken as it is, romantic fantastic crap. It does not hold up a mirror to society nor does it have anything meaniful to say. The only thing it could possibly say, and does so many times over, is the sexual frustrations and indisgretions of the 'illustrator'. But that does not justify he use of children. The majority of Yaoi does not hold any artistic merit. Most of it is simply watered down pornography, and in the case when it is full blown pornography depicting CHILDREN, it should never be published, let alone concieved in the first place. Sadly, it does. And I cannot believe it has taken the Japanese goverment this long to start saying what yaoi can and can't get away with. When it comes to issue of children consuming this material, it is the goverments responsabilty to control the accesibilty of any form of pornography, let alone child pornography. Because if a child sees another child of a similar age engaging in a sexual act, it puts pressure on the child to behave as such, let alone all the other problems it gives rise to. |
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rinmackie
 Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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Excuse me, bubblegum, but who put you in charge of what does or does not have "artistic merit"? There are lots of things out there that I don't think have artistic merit but I don't necessarily think they should be banned. As for yaoi leading people to think that homosexuality = pedophilia, I assure there are already lots of people out there who've never read yaoi (and probably never will read it) who already believe that. As for the children, I believe these materials are already age-restricted and no actual children are used in the creation of them. You don't have to like yaoi but you have no right to tell people what they should or shouldn't enjoy based on your opinion. And btw, there are actual gay people who DO like yaoi.
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The_Q
Posts: 57 |
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Anytime! In the wake of this consistent censorship surge that's been happening, we'll need all the help we can get. Just make sure to forward that link to anyone you know that may be interested in its cause.
yep, it doesn't contain merit because you say it doesn't! You wouldn't by any chance happen to be a member of Equality Now would you? Because they said the exact same thing. |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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But we know stereotypes aren't always true, don't we? One of the many studies being linked to in all these debates pointed out the majority of the acrtual child porn pics on the net are male, yet the reported actual victims tend to be female. It's also been pointed out pedophiles & predators aren't necessarily the same thing. Some pedophiles never take their perversion out of the closet-never carry it out on a real child (maybe because they realize how wrong it is or are satisfied by the pictures & few being caught). I'd say that's a preferrable route (a child never being molested). Many predators who victimize children aren't pedophiles, but merely opportunistic-they'll abuse whatever they can get their hands on. Predators are a notch or two up from pedophile.
My teachers explained to me The Classics are merely those stories that have stood the test of time. They do not actually have to be great works of art, simply stories loved enough to survive. Every year many stories are published. Some are thoroughly worthy, but vanish to obscurity. I love Robert Bloch's humor, but most people just know him thru Psycho. I love To Reign in Hell by Steven Brust though few seem to know of it. You're saying all these novels people read every day are worthless because they aren't classics? How are they supposed to become loved classics?
I have heard this so many times. My mother in law continually belittled my love of sci fi, fantasy & horror because she only read true life & self help books. Her opinion was all of my fantasy stores were crap because they depict things that aren't real. How much yaoi have you read before making this decision? Have you read Est Em? At its worst, yaoi is no worse than the average Harliquin Romance novel. At its best, there are some excellent stories that explore many things, but in particular relationships. I have read more than a few yaoi titles that have been disquieting.
Where's the artistic value of Pokemon? YuGiOh? Bleach? Naruto? One Piece? Are they not
Spiderman? Superman? Batman? Did they not start as simple entertainment aimed at children which have, from time to time felt the need to say something important, but otherwise are merely an excuse to depict heroes clobbering villains? Go back to the really old stuff from the '60's & tell me there was deep artistic value to Superboy.
Oh my god. Didn't their mommies ever tell them "If your friends jump off a bridge, would you?" It is the PARENT & not the GOVERNMENT that is supposed to instill values in their children or they really have no place having them. Children are not cattle. They are supposed to be special. Parents are supposed to teach them how to become productive members of society by the time the child reaches the age of being an adult so somewhere along the path of being a child the parent better be teaching the child how to evaluate right from wrong & to make decisions for themselves. There is the satisfaction in no temptation? I'm sorry, but if I walk the straight & narrow all day & don't blow my diet so my cholesteral in in the range my doctor wants it to be, I feel a certain amount of pride I avoided temptation. If all things that could blow my diet are banned by the government so we all have perfect weight, blood pressure, cholesteral, etc., where's the work that we can be proud of? I was a virgin when I got married back in 1980. My daughter is 19 & a virgin right now. It's not all that hard to rear a child to make decisions the child would be happy with. If my daughter decided to no longer be a virgin, whoopie--she is an adult now & can make the decision for herself, much as I chose not to drink until I was an adult & by the time I made it there, it seemed stupid to start. But the point is my parents reared me not to fall to peer pressure. I successfully reared my daughter not to fall to peer pressure. Why do you feel it's impossible to teach a child to stand their ground? |
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musouka
Posts: 707 |
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Spoken like someone ignorant of the history of the genre. "The Heart of Thomas" was the first male/male commercial work published in a mainstream manga magazine. It involved young boys and their love affairs in a German boarding school setting. While initially only a middling success, it's considered one of the foremost classics of shoujo. It dealt with things like sexual desire and abuse. It also paved the way for magazines like June. June is a magazine devoted entirely to male/male romance, started in the late seventies. This is where the series "Poem of the Wind and Trees" was published, also about young school boys and even more explicit than "Thomas." This is also regarded as one of the foremost classics of the shoujo genre in general, along with series like "Hi Izuru Tokoro no Tenshi" (which also deals with male/male relationships). To be honest, I think you are rude and insulting by implying those works have no literary merit. They are far beyond "romantic fantastic crap" and delve into many complex emotional states and situations. For you to even imply that those works have nothing meaningful to say is offensive not only to the women who found freedom in producing and consuming them, but to the gay men who read them because they were the only thing that even partially reflected their own reality in the mainstream, and the straight men who are touched by them even today, such as Matt Thorn. You do not have to like BL, but you shouldn't try to tar it with such an ignorant brush if you don't know anything about it and its roots. Last edited by musouka on Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tuxedocat
 Posts: 2183 |
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So basically they are saying, "You women should STOP looking at yaoi and start making those bento boxes!" ? LOL! Actually, I think most women in Japan who read these won't speak up. unfortunately. Most of them don't want to call attention to themselves. My guess is they are counting on this silence to pass this thing. This is just a starting point, since they can go after the loli and ecchi yuri easily if they have this as a law. It will just sneak in there. I notice this subject doesn't attract anywhere near the discussion that lolicon does. That's the insidious plan, I suspect. I'm guessing the loli/yuri fans won't care about this until they use its passing to expand laws that include those genres. |
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BitShifter
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The government power that allows one to be sent to prison for creating or receiving words & drawings that are "offensive" and "without artistic merit" is something you would expect to find only in the most totalitarian regimes. Here in the US, the Miller Test is nothing more than an unconstitutional compromise that allows a majority of people to force their beliefs about "artistic merit" onto the minority. |
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dho332
Posts: 20 |
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let me bring back my post to the discussion table in a way that won't force the mods to delete it like they do with every single one of my posts because they don't believe in freedom of speech. Much like politicians, ann administrators don't support people like myself that believe things in the minority. I am very concered with the japanese legal system and their incredibly vague and ambiguous laws that can do nothing but harm freedom of speech. I am a bisexual and a pedophile and many of the recent headlines have been incredibly hard hitting and lead me to use many expletives while posting. This is because I am used to using expletives, since I am around people that frequently use expletives, and I am used to saying violent and immoral things, since my family is atheist and I read guro manga. I am very sorry that I have expressed support for the child porn industry. However, since child porn in japan, as well as homosexual porn, make up a majority of the industry, and I am really into economics and politics, I have recently been concerned. I care more about having food to eat and a roof over my head than mandating the destruction of human lives and talent and destroying jobs once held by talented mangaka. I don't see unemployment improving the economy, and I don't see outlawing consumer products helping businesses. I don't see making things in my possession illegal when I purchased them with no harm in mind, and being arrested when they are found in my possession to be just. The world we live in today to me, may not be flawless, but it is much better than the world that I see if we force millions of mangaka from their jobs and cause thousands of businesses to fail because of political agendas. If there's one things UNICEF or the UN has ever done well, it is destroy my hopes and dreams, and take things I like away from me.
[Mod Edit: ANN supports your right to your opinions when they're posted in a manner that is within the guidelines of the site. Unfortunately many of your posts have not been, and so they have been removed. It has nothing to do with your differing opinions, since we have many frequent posters from all walks of life and on all sides of major issues. The issue has been with how you present those opinions, and how that has proven to be destructive and uncivil, even downright trolling, on numerous occasions.] |
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paputsza
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I don't know where you've been living, but anime doesn't have any artistic merit to most people. You have to get wrapped up in it before you can appreciate it. Heck, to a lot of people art doesn't have any merit in the first place. Yaoi, as with most manga, isn't even about how good the art is, it's about the story. At least that's how it is with me. That's why I can watch Shin Chan and why South Park does so well. The art is secondary. Watching something visually pleasing is just a bonus, because people like to use their senses. But yes, ww3 if this thing goes through. It's stupid to think that men who molest men are worse than men who molest women. I couldn't care less if they ban shota though. In all, I'd say yaoi actually lowers my expectations from a guy. I can spend a day reading shojo and suddenly I want to be swept off of my feet by the richest guy at some private school and enter a indefinite buildup for the next few years. But yeah, I feel like chopping off the testicles of the people who made up this legislation so that they stop being so stupid. I hate that they're singling out the porn that women read. They should work on hentai and yuri, then we'll see about yaoi. I'm pretty sure the people who thought up this legislation are just looking down on yaoi because it's not something they personally get off on and they feel guilty about what they do. |
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