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RIGHT TURN ONLY!! - After School Geass Time


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jenthehen



Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 451
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:13 pm Reply with quote
Good. I thought I was the only one who thought Saikano was so overrated. I watched the series (haven't read the manga), and I was totally disappointed. The pacing was horrible. It lacked any reasonable explanation for why things were the way they were (WHY was chise an ultimate weapon? It seems like she was JUST because it would be sad because she is a cute high school girl - well, I don't buy it, and therefore I couldn't emphasize with her.) The damn show just tried TOO HARD to be sad, so in the end ... it wasn't. I am usually very emotional with fiction (I've cried during commercials!) and ... I did not shed a tear for Saikano. I was bored for most of it.
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classicalzawa
Space CowboySpace Cowboy


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 5200

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:48 pm Reply with quote
I've never gotten a chance to read or see Saikano, but I might be passing over this one for a while longer it would seem. I don't like "I care for you" lines or moments in anything, if it really does happen high frequency, it'll probably annoy me. A lot.

I'd most like to see Liar Game licensed, I know I'm not alone on this one. I think it would go over very well here personally.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 6418
Location: IL

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:51 pm Reply with quote
Saikano is a seinen manga. Therefore, it's relationships are going to be adult relationships. Shuuji isn't in high school, he's in college. And Shuuji likes sex, Cause he's a guy. The last sex scene spoiler[Basically is the first time that Shuuji could ever have sex with Chise, or what is left of Chise, since Chise put all her memories into that "messenger" that she sent. It was pretty much the last bit of Chise left.]

As for "WHY" she's an ultimate weapon, it's because the government made her like that. Is that any different than Gunslinger Girl? It shows how an obtrusive government and war can completely wreck what could have been a beautiful relationship.

I love seinen manga. I love Saikano. I know it has its faults. Shuuji is a guy with needs. Akemi is a girl with needs. When staring face to face with what can only be impending doom as your city is bombed to nothingness, can you blame these people for fulfilling their needs?

At least Saikano wasn't just generic crap.
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nightjuan



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1420

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:10 am Reply with quote
Quote:
But give her Geass powers and an unbeatable mecha, and she becomes a far more compelling character—perhaps even more so than Lelouch in the original.


Certainly thrilling enough, but does that really make Nunnally more compelling as a character or does it actually make her a Mary Sue, I wonder? Laughing Just as a rhetorical question. I suppose the internal conflict she has to face would be interesting, going by the description, but giving her so much power right from the beginning seems to be a bit of...a risky decision. At least Lelouch, contrary to the implication, had to build up his organization and deal with the fallout of his careless use of Geass. I'd say that was more than just wearing a mask, but there are different ways to look at it.

To be fair though, I think the reviewer may be on to something as far as focusing more on Nunnally and less on the all too familiar ground goes, but that will have to be seen firsthand before making any more comments. I'll get back to you on that.


Last edited by nightjuan on Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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vashfanatic



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3413
Location: Back stateside

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:10 am Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
And Shuuji likes sex, Cause he's a guy.
...
I know it has its faults. Shuuji is a guy with needs. Akemi is a girl with needs. When staring face to face with what can only be impending doom as your city is bombed to nothingness, can you blame these people for fulfilling their needs?


Right, 'cause guys are just balls of hormones wanting to have sex all the time, while women have comparatively smaller libidos (if they have any at all) and have to be the guardians who "let" men have sex with them. 'Cause guys only think about sex. They can't help themselves!

Thank you sexual attitude from the 1950s. Rolling Eyes

In all fairness, at least in the anime, everybody was horny in the face of the end, including the female characters. Didn't make the sex less creepy, though, what with the noseless character designs - and the ultra-downer ending was so depressing I didn't even have the energy to get teary-eyed over it. (The episode "Akemi," on the other hand...*sniffles*)

*sigh* As often is the case, none of the manga this week interests me in the slightest. Paycheck tomorrow, though, and then I'll be buying volume 3 of 20th Century Boys.
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bahamut623



Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1400

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:18 am Reply with quote
I actually really enjoyed Nabari no Ou. The humor in particular really stood out to me. Anyways, I enjoyed this single volume more than anything in the past several volumes of Naruto.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 6418
Location: IL

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:26 am Reply with quote
vashfanatic wrote:
Megiddo wrote:
And Shuuji likes sex, Cause he's a guy.
...
I know it has its faults. Shuuji is a guy with needs. Akemi is a girl with needs. When staring face to face with what can only be impending doom as your city is bombed to nothingness, can you blame these people for fulfilling their needs?


Right, 'cause guys are just balls of hormones wanting to have sex all the time, while women have comparatively smaller libidos (if they have any at all) and have to be the guardians who "let" men have sex with them. 'Cause guys only think about sex. They can't help themselves!

Thank you sexual attitude from the 1950s. Rolling Eyes

I don't know if you noticed, but I mentioned Akemi's "needs" as well just so I didn't get a sarcastic post like yours. Hell, you have it right there where you quoted me, did you just read over it?

I could have mentioned other female character's needs too. Like those of the track coach (or some sort of coach/teacher that spoiler[had sex with Shuuji as a student and then later on as well]
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Teriyaki Terrier



Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 5689

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:31 am Reply with quote
To be fair, at least Saikano had adult characters. At least the characters were 18 and not under that age. I've actually read a couple of chapters, but its all right, but I don't want to read too many series that are sad.

Bright, happier are much better. Except for K-On, because Yui is even more moe and iratating in that as well.
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KrisEllieOphi



Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 111
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:46 am Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
Saikano is a seinen manga. Therefore, it's relationships are going to be adult relationships. Shuuji isn't in high school, he's in college. And Shuuji likes sex, Cause he's a guy. The last sex scene spoiler[Basically is the first time that Shuuji could ever have sex with Chise, or what is left of Chise, since Chise put all her memories into that "messenger" that she sent. It was pretty much the last bit of Chise left.]

As for "WHY" she's an ultimate weapon, it's because the government made her like that. Is that any different than Gunslinger Girl? It shows how an obtrusive government and war can completely wreck what could have been a beautiful relationship.

At least Saikano wasn't just generic crap.


He's in college? Where was THAT? They're all in the same class in HS.

It IS different from Gunslinger Girl, yes. Because in GSG, they choose very specific children. The orphaned, the sickly, the "damaged." Triela was a product of a child trafficking ring, Rico had something that paralyzed her (or otherwise left her bed ridden), Henrietta's family was murdered and she was raped and beaten, Angelica's parents had her run over by a car, Petrushka was going to be a star ballerina until she got a leg tumor and had to get her leg amputated.

If there WAS a specific reason why Chise is chosen, I certainly don't remember it. I don't think there was a given reason, and she hardly seems like the best choice to begin with.

If it doesn't sound like it, I do love Saikano, in both it's written and animated forms.

Also, I desperately want someone to license Yoshiki Nakamura's Tokyo Crazy Paradise.
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vashfanatic



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3413
Location: Back stateside

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:47 am Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
vashfanatic wrote:
Megiddo wrote:
And Shuuji likes sex, Cause he's a guy.
...
I know it has its faults. Shuuji is a guy with needs. Akemi is a girl with needs. When staring face to face with what can only be impending doom as your city is bombed to nothingness, can you blame these people for fulfilling their needs?


Right, 'cause guys are just balls of hormones wanting to have sex all the time, while women have comparatively smaller libidos (if they have any at all) and have to be the guardians who "let" men have sex with them. 'Cause guys only think about sex. They can't help themselves!

Thank you sexual attitude from the 1950s. Rolling Eyes

I don't know if you noticed, but I mentioned Akemi's "needs" as well just so I didn't get a sarcastic post like yours. Hell, you have it right there where you quoted me, did you just read over it?

I could have mentioned other female character's needs too. Like those of the track coach (or some sort of coach/teacher that spoiler[had sex with Shuuji as a student and then later on as well]


Yes, I know you mentioned Akemi - but you certainly didn't mention Chie, who considers having sex with a soldier, nor any number of other characters... you just started out with "'cause he's a guy," and I hate that line of argument. I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but I get ticked whenever people start taking that way.

The anime also generally did cut-aways on the sex scenes; I take it the manga did not? Seriously, the lack of noses killed any eroticism for me, but I guess it takes all kinds, eh?
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KrisEllieOphi



Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 111
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:50 am Reply with quote
vashfanatic wrote:


The anime also generally did cut-aways on the sex scenes; I take it the manga did not? Seriously, the lack of noses killed any eroticism for me, but I guess it takes all kinds, eh?


It's pretty explicit. To put it into perspective.... A review here a while back talked about the level of sex in the final volume of Ai Yori Aoshi, saying that it was nearly hentai. That was a joke to me, as I'd already read Saikano, and AYA is pretty tame compared to that.
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marie-antoinette



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 4136
Location: Ottawa, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:55 am Reply with quote
I still need to check out Slam Dunk, even though it isn't even remotely close to my normal tastes. Maybe because of that, actually, it would be nice for something different.

I do have to completely disagree about Saikano though. I think it's one of the best manga I've ever read. Now if only I could actually get my hands on the elusive seventh and final volume...I still have no idea why but it seems to be the only one of the series that is OOP or unavailable or something. Which is really REALLY frustrating.
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Kaelis Ra



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:46 am Reply with quote
I only own the first volume of Saikano, which I got rather a long time ago, and for whatever reason never felt like continuing it. My first impression of the review of it was that it seemed rather harsh, but thinking back to reading it the first time, by the time I got to the end of volume 1, I was completely unable to distinguish the feeling of awkward cringing discomfort of some of the scenes, from the feeling of sincere sorrow or sympathy for the characters. It seemed to have a generous helping of both.
To make me cry over a story is ridiculously easy and requires little more than a token effort from an author, and Saikano brought that out as per usual, however in retrospect, it feels like it was more the moments that made me cringe at how awkward they were that stuck with me...
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mufurc



Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 612

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:40 am Reply with quote
I actually enjoyed the first volumes of Nabari no ou. It's not going to win any awards for originality, especially in the beginning, but the story developed nicely (for all the ninja action, Nabari no ou is actually a shoujo manga and it shows) and the characters were nice and entertaining, so it was all good... until Yoite hijacked the story and everything went downhill. I hate it when that happens.

As for Saikano, I've only seen the anime but based on that I agree with the review. It was horrible, the character design (the no noses thing I could live with, but even without that the characters just look horrible), the loli (is there a reason why Chise looks like she's twelve? don't tell me they couldn't have expressed her innocence in any other way!), and the story... well, the "story" was just an excuse to wring sympathy from the viewer by making the characters' lives more and more miserable until they hit rock bottom. It was so ridiculous. All the while I felt that they were trying too hard to make it tragic which resulted in it being trite and melodramatic in the worst possible way.
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sunflower



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 642

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:51 am Reply with quote
Huh, I had a seriously different take on Nabari no Ou. I found it refreshing because it was poking fun at all the conventions within shounen ninja stories like Naruto, especially with its hero who is too lazy and apathetic to bother saving himself, much less anyone else. To me it is akin to Ouran in this.


And this...

Quote:
After that, well-spaced layouts and bold-lined artwork are simply icing on the cake: hey look, a BL manga with readable pages and identifiable characters! Now that's something special.


Please. This is no more true of BL than it is of other manga. Some stories have that problem, a lot do not. It all depends on the artist.

That said, Gakuen Heaven is boring in the extreme because of the cliches in it. The only thing above average about it is the art, by the wonderful You Higuri.
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