Forum - View topic

Hey, Answerman! - Popularity Contests

If you have an objection to the widely held interpretation of the ending (which is basically the same one Zac has, because its not that complicated) you need to actually put your interpretation up, and not just complain that no one is explaining it well.

...and I really think the creators of Madoka just couldn't bring themselves to have a hard, edgy ending to the show... a punch in the gut to the audience or at least something more tragic like, for example, in Cowboy Beebop.

ChibiKangaroo wrote:

...and I really think the creators of Madoka just couldn't bring themselves to have a hard, edgy ending to the show... a punch in the gut to the audience or at least something more tragic like, for example, in Cowboy Beebop.

Then you didn't pay attention to the ending. spoiler[Madoka could not bring Sayaka back to life, Magical Girls still die in battle or from despair, and the Earth is still plagued with monsters. In fact, Madoka arguably made things worse, because the new system is vastly inferior to the old one at giving Kyubey his quota of energy, meaning the entire universe is in slightly more danger now.]

I'll repost this:

To those poor souls who need their hands held to understand the ending, please read this guide. All of it. And then shut about how the ending sucks. Moaning that you can't understand the ending doesn't mean it is confusing or badly written; it just means you didn't pay enough attention.

I have put my interpretation up, many times. Here it is, extra special just for you. In a nut shell, the ending was "spoiler[We have decided to wrap everything up neatly with Madoka using her wish to become a god and right all wrongs through out history, thereby conveniently eliminating the vast majority of the tragedy associated with becoming a magical girl which we have carefully cultivated through out all of the previous episodes. We did this because, at the end of the day, magical girl shows are supposed to be about love and hope conquering all evils and despair. Thus, Madoka becomes a god of hope and love, and makes almost everything right in the universe for all magical girls. But before the show's over, we'll have a few characters give a sentimental speech about how Madoka's loving gift to us all is the most special and selfless act that a sentient being can possibly take. (Hooray for super sentimental exposition in Anime.)]" There's my interpretation. Sarcastic? Yes, but honestly, I'm tired of hyper sentimental speeches in anime series and I really think the creators of Madoka just couldn't bring themselves to have a hard, edgy ending to the show... a punch in the gut to the audience or at least something more tragic like, for example, in Cowboy Beebop.

As for what you are saying about spoiler[Magical Girls still dying in battle? That's great, only its the same thing that would happen in any other magical girl show. The big distinction of Madoka from other magical girl shows was that it twisted the concept of becoming a magical girl into some kind of harvesting system, where the supposed cute little cuddly mascot is actually an ammoral mastermind who's used countless magical girls as batteries to power his agenda, and left them as horrifying monsters once he's done.]

spoiler[She did not eliminate injustice, she did not right any wrongs, all she did was make a cruel system a bit less cruel, and a bit more fair. The cup of the universe is now half full, instead of half empty.

She did this by sacrificing her very existence in the world, leaving behind only a single person who knew she existed. The girl who loved her more than life herself is now the only person who remember she existed. Homura lives with this knowledge, carried along only by her promise to protect Madoka's universe, and the hope that one day, when she finally falls in battle, she will be reunited with Madoka.]

Anyone else here finding the redundant Madoka debate boring and off-topic?

I thought the Answerman feature about it focused on critical review, but the discussion here is about the show's ending.

Wouldn't the Madoka thread in the anime forum be a better place for this discussion?

I don't know about you but I would say that making it so that spoiler[magical girls no longer transform into hideous monsters ala Claymore is a PRETTY BIG wrong that she righted. (Again, I can't help but wonder how much Madoka was influenced by Claymore).]

spoiler[Also, the whole sacrificing her existence thing is not quite logical. The guide you guys point to states that she sacrificed her existence because of the time paradox created by traveling into the future to kill her own witch. However, the time paradox doesn't occur until the future, so she doesn't have to cease to exist until the future comes. Since she constantly exists in the present, the time paradox never really comes to fruition.] This is why time paradoxes usually involve changes to the past rather than changes to the future, because a change to the past can influence the present, whereas a change to the future technically cannot.

ChibiKangaroo wrote:

spoiler[Also, the whole sacrificing her existence thing is not quite logical. The guide you guys point to states that she sacrificed her existence because of the time paradox created by traveling into the future to kill her own witch. However, the time paradox doesn't occur until the future, so she doesn't have to cease to exist until the future comes. Since she constantly exists in the present, the time paradox never really comes to fruition.] This is why time paradoxes usually involve changes to the past rather than changes to the future, because a change to the past can influence the present, whereas a change to the future technically cannot.

spoiler[Madoka transcended the concept of linear time. When Ultimate Madoka Destroyed Kriemhild Gretchen (which occurred at every point in time and at no point in time) she paradoxed herself into becoming a concept.]

This is also entirely secondary to the actual point, and focusing heavily on it is a great way to divert the argument. So cut it out.

Ok. I still don't think this makes the whole time paradox thing work though.spoiler[ There's no real reason for Kriemhild Gretchen to occur at every point in time and at no point in time. That sounds like just another contrived concept. If Madoka needed to collect all of the despair from all magical girls, past present and future, it logically makes sense that the Kriemhild Gretchen would only occur once she was finished. Thus, it would only appear at one time, i.e. the time when she cleansed the last grief seed. Logically, this would occur in the future because it would be counterproductive to work your way back from the future to the past. As I said before, changes you made in the future would not affect the past/present, and changes you made in the past could affect the present/future. Thus you would work your way from the past to the present to the future in order to be thorough. As a result, Kriemhild Gretchen would occur in the future, and there would be no time paradox.]

"No one really understands the intricacies of a magical girl wish. There are unanswered questions everywhere you look. For example, there are no known length or linguistic constraints on how a wish is given, but, according to the Incubators, no recorded wish has ever attempted to string seven "and" clauses together, or presented the Incubator with a page's worth of verbiage. It just doesn't happen."

"Similarly, despite the Incubators' insistences that 'any wish is possible', nearly all wishes are relatively tame. The grandest recorded wishes regard the fate of nations, or of certain aspects of the human condition. Grandiose, but it is possible to imagine much more."

"The nature of the seeming reality distortion behind a wish is also quite vague. Some wishes generate obvious miracles, but others seem to generate nothing at all. What is always the case, however, is that what is wished for always becomes true. Period. No exceptions. The most disturbing cases are those where what is wished for turns out to have always been true. It raises the possibility that the most powerful wishes are the ones we don't know about."

"Some have suggested that, ultimately, the safety of humanity is unassailable, grounded within the types of wishes that require humanity's survival, however tangentially. We will see…"

—"What is a wish, really?", blog post, MSY "Theban" community blogging platform.

Going back to the question of American companies co-producing anime, who cares? Anime does not have to subscribe to Western themes to be great and appreciated by audiences in this part of the world. I also think it is kind of silly to say that anime has become too Japanese.

Plenty of amazing anime has come in the last 5 years and if you are not enjoying it because it is too Japanese, you are missing lots of great stuff.