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ANNCast - Revenge of the 2000s Reloaded: Spectacular Spectacular

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:45 pm Reply with quote
Nice opening Zac! Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:05 pm Reply with quote
Just for right now, YAY MORE PRINCESS TUTU! Very Happy

Something I wanted to ask Hope Chapman though... for your 10 categories, how did you end up ranking them? Did you choose the ten anime representative of each category and then rank the anime according to what was best amongst the selection? Or are you ranking the categories themselves based upon which category you felt had a better selection or had more impact in the 00's? Or is there no real ranking, just 10 shows representative of 10 categories?

Zac Bertschy:
Philosophy: "Watch a shit load of material - list is not based upon nostalgia, but how I feel about it now." (Note: Nothing he watched for the first time made it on the list.)

From Part I wrote:
Honorable Mentions: Redline, Princess Tutu, Mind Game, Victorian Romance Emma

10. Spice and Wolf (2008, Imagin)

09. Eden of the East (2009, Production I.G.)

08. Garden of Sinners (Kara no Kyoukai) (2007, ufotable)

07. Genshiken (2004, Palm Studio)

06. Interstella 5555 (2001, Toei)

05. Baccano! (2007, Brains Base)

04. FLCL (2000, Gainax)

03. RahXephon (2002, Bones)

02. Fullmetal Alchemist (2003, Bones)

01. Wolf's Rain (2003, Bones)


Justin Sevakis:
Philosophy: "In the macro view, how many of these shows would stand the test of time and how many would I remember in the next ten years."

From Part I wrote:
Honorable Mentions: Kino's Journey, Gankutsuou, Story of Saiunkoku, Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, Eden of the East, Paprika

10. Princess Tutu (2002, Hal Film)

09. Fighting Spirit (Hajime no Ippo) (2000, Madhouse)

08. Fullmetal Alchemist (2003, Bones)

07. Sky Crawlers (2008, Production I.G.)

06. Haibane Renmei (2002, Radix)

05. Wolf's Rain (2003, Bones)

04. Emma: A Victorian Romance (2005, Studio Pierrot)

03. Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit (2007, Production I.G.)

02. Millennium Actress (2001, Madhouse)

01. Baby Blue (2007, Studio 4°C)


Hope Chapman:
Philosophy: "Not just top 10 favorites. Looked at 10 facets of what makes anime the best of what it is or what it is trying to be."

From Part I wrote:
10. Ouran High School Host Club (2006, Bones)
Category: Comedy
Honorable mentions: School Rumble, Azumanga Daioh

09. Interstella 5555 (2001, Toei)
Category: Animation for the sake of animation
Honorable mentions: Redline, FLCL

08. Garden of Sinners (Kara no Kyoukai) (2007, ufotable)
Category: New media / moe / dependence upon fans
Honorable mentions: Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, ef: a tale of memories

07. Baccano! (2007, Brains Base)
Category: Pure entertainment
Honorable mentions: Samurai Champloo, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann

06. Welcome to the NHK (2006, Gonzo)
Category: Slice of life
Honorable mentions: Honey and Clover, Genshiken, Beck, Paradise Kiss

05. Princess Tutu (2002, Hal Film)
Category: Best children's anime
Honorable mentions: Dennou Coil, Spirited Away

04. Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo (2004, Gonzo)
Category: Feels cinematic / feels like one continuous experience
Honorable mentions: RahXephon, Death Note

03. Wolf's Rain (2003, Bones)
Category: Taking a uniform vision but episodes look at separate themes (NOTE: Hope's favorite kind of anime)
Honorable mentions: Haibane Renmei, Kino's Journey

02a. Millennium Actress (2001, Madhouse)
02b. Paranoia Agent (2004, Madhouse)
Honorable mentions: (none)

01. Fullmetal Alchemist (2003, Bones)
Category: Winning blend of all previous categories
Honorable mentions: (none)


Theron Martin:
Philosophy: "Looked at two primary factors: (1) Writing quality and (2) Did the title do something distinctive." (Note: Not all of his favorite titles necessarily made it on the list.)

From Part I wrote:
Honorable Mentions: My-Hime, My-Otome, Baccano!, Metropolis, Saikano, Scrapped Princess, Twelve Kingdoms, Paprika, Boogiepop Phantom, Living for the Day After Tomorrow, Eden of the East, Gankutsuou, Haibane Renmei, Redline

10. Simoun (2006, Studio Deen)

09. Spice and Wolf II (2009, Brains Base)

08. Cross Game (2009, Synergy SP)

07. Voices of a Distant Star (2002, CoMix Wave Inc.)

06. Spirited Away (2001, Studio Ghibli)

05. FLAG (2006, Ansa Studio)

04. Koi Kaze (2004, A.C.G.T.)

03. Black Lagoon: The Second Barrage (2006, Madhouse)

02. Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex 2nd GIG (2004, Production I.G.)

01. Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit (2007, Production I.G.)

Last edited by Crisha on Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:42 am; edited 10 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:10 pm Reply with quote
Wow, thanks for that listing, Willag. Very nice.

My only request is to wait a day or two to let people listen to the episode before listing our top 5s. I'd rather the second post in this thread not immediately spoil the episode.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:12 pm Reply with quote
Agreed with Zac up top. Just stopped by to say how excited I was for this. I quickly blocked my screen with my hands just in case though lol.

Oh the music, oh the music.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:13 pm Reply with quote
I would just put spoiler tags around your list cause I would like to know how to spell some of the series I haven't heard of.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:24 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
My only request is to wait a day or two to let people listen to the episode before listing our top 5s. I'd rather the second post in this thread not immediately spoil the episode.
Yes, please.

Edit: As an aside, I listened to part 1 kind of late, but Haibane Renmei getting some mention made me remember this analysis of the show that I found fascinating. For you who like the show (Justin, etc.), have you seen this?

More comments later, perhaps; back to listening to this grand finale.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:48 pm Reply with quote
I honestly don't see how Monster is a "soulless adaption". There's a difference between soulless and respectful, and I think the latter is a far better descriptor for Monster. It follows the amazing manga perfectly and gives it some great performances and music. It's a fair assessment that it isn't the pinnacle of what anime as a medium itself can do, which can be a reason not to put it on a top 10 list, but to call it soulless is a bit much.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:54 pm Reply with quote
FLAG is such an amazing title, I can't think of any in visual media short of watching Richard Engel embedded in a story that feels so real and believable. It's not even just the way it's shot, but the entire construct of the Central Asian conflict and the way the military is deployed and how they have to engage. I basically blew through it in one sitting, completely floored the entire time. If not for VOTOMS, this would be Takahashi's best work. Oh, and the 5.1 track is spectacular when you have vehicles moving in and out of frame.

I love Emma for its idyllic look into the 1890s society of London and the gentry. It operates much in the same way that recent Croisee in a Foreign Labyrinth series did, showing you snippets of life during peaceful times.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:13 pm Reply with quote
Why so much hate for Gasaraki? It seems like I'm kind of alone on this but I loved the series. In my eyes the mystery and the realism blend very well and I have no qualms about complicated political situations, a mecha show not having the protagonist constantly piloting his mecha or spoiler[shadowy conspiracies.]

Anyway, since Votoms(I know I'm late on the train) is flooring me day after day after day I guess I really have to finally get to FLAG pretty soon.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:36 pm Reply with quote
Also, my Top 3(number 2 and 3 of wich change depending on my mood):

1. Ghost In The Shell Anything
Yeah, 2nd Gig is really the pinnacle of the series with the amazing TV movie added on but anything GITS will always be my absolute cryptonite. I have watched all of this more often than anything else in my entire life and I- in contrast to Theron- actually like the characters a lot.

2. Moribito
Yeah, no debate, this show is incredible. From the storytelling and characterisation to the art and anymation. In this I will agree a 100% with Theron on that this is the single best fantasy anime ever made and I fail to see any way that this could be topped.

3. Eden Of The East
Yeah, once again quite alone with actually liking the movies. Sure, they fail to live up to the series' quality but even with that they're still great, if maybe only for the characters and their interaction. This franchise takes elements from old school action and political thrillers, blends it with fun adventure and does not fail.

Honorable mentions(that could just as well have been in this list):
Gurren Lagann, Darker Than Black(yep, I like it, no shame), FMA, Paranoia Agent, Wolf's Rain, Planetes....
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:00 pm Reply with quote
I enjoyed Gasaraki, but it's definitely not the same kinda of straightforward enjoyable I found other Takahashi stuff to be. I never thought there was a slow moment, but damn if some of the pieces didn't seem a bit more obtuse to fill in the puzzle. Maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention. Oh, but I also feel like they took the war from the opening and that might've led to FLAG, war in a similar area, but through a camera lens. Kinda made both wars more interesting since they're actually similar in some ways if you ask me. Set piece wise anyway.

But yeah, I'll buy anything with Ryosuke Takahashi's name on it. It's why I blind bought Intrigue in the Bakumatsu after noticing it in the TRSI sale (how I didn't already know he directed this, I dunno). I'll buy or watch anything with his name.

Man, I must be one of the few people who was severely disappoint by Gankutsuou. Part of it was of course that the visuals made my eyes want to bleed and explode out of my skull, which made paying attention to the actual show difficult, but I just didn't find it very interesting in the end. I did read an abridged version of the novel (because holy hell was I not reading 1200 pages, 600 I can do), I also found it kinda meh, but without the eye bleeding, far better. And I had to go with dub for the anime because trying to read subs with all that visual flash would've made them actually explode without doubt. For that category, I go RahXephon for sure, I wasn't sure what to expect from something compared to NGE (which I disliked) all the time, but it's pretty awesome. Watched it twice and will gladly again!

Last edited by zawa113 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:40 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:01 pm Reply with quote
Clearly infiltration.cru is a major Kamiyama fan. (Not that I find anything wrong with that, mind you. Wink )
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:08 pm Reply with quote
Nice way to end the year, guys!

I agree with Hope Chapman that Gankutsuou has some substance. By the end, spoiler[when Albert grows up, he no longer is naive. In a tragic way, he realizes that he was a tool to the Count and that's the start of him maturing.] I'll be honest I didn't notice how they made Franz sound a spoiler[ bit gay (even though he was)] in the dub. But I agree that the dub was hit and miss, notably the young lead and the adult characters were great and the other young characters were pretty bad.

I have yet to watch Black Lagoon and I'm glad it's back in-print, but I want to wait for when Funi puts out Roberta's Blood Trail. I have also yet to watch Wolf's Rain, but I have it on my shelf. I'm so glad that I bought when I had the chance. But I wish I could say the same thing for Moribito and Princess Tutu, dammit. *snaps fingers* Oh, well I guess I got to add some stuff on my wish list.

I also agree that Chris Patton is a very good voice actor when he is given very good direction. Obviously, Welcome to the NHK is a great show with a great dub.

As a fan of Beck (which was on my top 3), I have yet to watch Paradise Kiss, too bad it's out of print.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:13 pm Reply with quote
An interesting thing I became more aware of about myself as I listened to the discussions on the show is that I am heavily preferential of series that are able to realize their "complete vision" - things like Gankutsuou, RahXephon, Moribito, Gurren Lagann, and Wolf's Rain really come together for me because they have that quality in them.

Sometimes, I'll get a lot of enjoyment out of a series that didn't quite come together cleanly but which was really ambitious and turned out to be highly entertaining in spite of its flaws (Code Geass is a favorite example here), but a show has to execute really well on many other fronts to make up for it. This has somewhat been my lament in the 2000s - with so many series being 11-13 episodes, I've found that within that length, there's a huge prevalence of "here's a series of events that happened" shows compared to the aforementioned "complete vision" shows. I think it's simply easier to present those kinds of 'visions' with 24-26 episodes, versus 11-13.

I'm cool with leaving the future open in the end of a series, but I also want big questions to be answered and plotlines to be given satisfying conclusions. Anime has often had problems with unsatisfying endings (even if the series was good overall), which has lead to me being very hesitant to ever blind-buy a series, so when a series has a REALLY GOOD ending that really feels like a conclusion to all the things that the show has built up over its run, that's a feat I'm likely to remember, and a show I'm likely to look back on fondly.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:18 pm Reply with quote
I have to agree with Theron, I found Wolfs Rain to be boring and pretentious. I will admit part of that is that I what the OVAs about two months after wrapping up the TV version. But I still found the show to be a utter, dreary slog that took forever to say nothing of importance. I hated the characters, not merely a inability to connect, but a visceral hate that made me wish for them to die spoiler[(and even when they did, they still managed to waste my time)]. I don't know, it quite possibly it has to deal with the fact that am I not a film student, I am an engineer, and I take a more practical view of things. But yeah, Wolf's Rain, hated it. Also, total sausage-fest. Hey, I'm just saying.

Moribito was nice enough, but I wouldn't but it on a top ten, mostly because I couldn't connect with the characters. Balsa is too maternal, and I don't care for maternal characters, so yeah, not a big fan. The animation is great, though.

There wasn't anything really decisive or bizarre on these lists, so it was kind of a disappointment. I kept hoping Theron would pick some really strange title and while we did get that incest show, it was defensible. Although I would question why he picked the Second Black Lagoon over the first. While the whole Indian counterfeiter arc was great, and includes one of my favorite exchanges:
Eda: Do you know what Jesus said in John Chapter 5? He said, "Don't bring me any trouble, bitch."
Jane: Isn't this a church?
Eda: And? God's not at home. He's on vacation in Vegas.

in the whole, the first season is better. In fact, I think Black Lagoon is the one anime that Hollywood could adapt and make money off, because it is essentially already Hollywood action movie.

You know what we didn't get which I was expecting (well, not really, but...) Pani Poni Dash. It has Shinbo with his own special style of madness (and lolicon, don't forget that), a truly bizarre and absurdist style, great voice acting, Ichijo-san, and a comprehensive set of in-joke and obscure references that puts Lucky Star to shame. Sure, you can only enjoy this show after consuming significant amounts of alcohol, but it is a piece of work for sure. (And a hell of a lot more fun to watch that Wolf's Rain).
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