Forum - View topicMawaru Penguindrum's dub being directed by... Steven Foster?
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Animerican14
 Posts: 963 Location: Saint Louis, MO |
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So... it seems that Mawaru Penguindrum's-- er, "Penguin Drum"'s-- dub is being directed by Foster himself.
The thing is, though, there really doesn't seem to be a whole lot of backing of this info. I was first tipped off by JesuOtaku's (Hope Chapman's) tweets as of late, and doing a google search of his name with Mawaru Penguindrum.... the only places immediately showing up that speak of his directing the show as actually being news are some tumblr posts, a couple forum posts (which seem to be mentioned at the same time as as the news of him directing Grave of the Fireflies' dub), a mention of a twitter-post that talked of hearing about it at a Sentai booth at a recent con, and JesuOtaku's own Sept. 28 tweet. Someone also decided to add his credit to Penguindrum's page, but I suspect that came about from the original twitter post. So one of my questions is, has this been talked about anywhere else with more substantial info or evidence? I kinda doubt that the original tweeter would've trolled, but still, it'd be nice to see a little more to the news. And second, assuming that this is true... what ought we expect of it?  Might it be the "Good Stephen" or "Bad Stephen," to borrow Surrender Artist's phrasing, that we see here? Would Foster be respectful enough of Ikuhara's first major work since The Adolescence of Utena and keep its layers of meaning and symbolism intact? Might Ikuhara even take a bit of a hands-on approach and/or have a say in how the dub script goes?
Admittedly, this apparent news has gotten me into an... ambiguous state of panic. I say "ambiguous" due to both how relatively limited my exposure to his dubs are and how the ones I've seen never set off a terrible nerve-- I liked what I saw of Le Chevelier De'Eon's dub years ago, was pleasantly entertained by what I saw of HOTD's (I don't care much for accuracy to subs in good schlock like that), and was touched by the performances in Mardock Scramble. However, from what I've read, a lot of the "humor" he inserts/adapts is rather ill-placed and some of his adaptations can really change meanings of scenes... and Mawaru Penguindrum, with its blend of the theatrical and strong absurdity with dead-seriousness and symbolism, thus seems too easy a target for the "Bad Stephen" to get his mitts on. Thoughts? Agreements? Any reassurances? |
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Mad_Scientist
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 3011 |
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I looked up the source in the ANN encyclopedia, and it is indeed the following tweet, which I believe is one you were referring to in your post. https://twitter.com/Opn01/status/251725306614915073
Haven't been able to find any other sources yet. |
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Vata Raven
 Posts: 710 Location: TN |
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As an anime fan that NEVER watches anything with the Japanese track (unless there is no English audio)...I can't tell if the mess with the script or not. For me to not watch a dub, the voice acting has to sound off to me...like does the acting sound dull, do the voices fit, ect. And of course I don't watch ecchi and other genres, but that has nothing to do with the VAs, just personal taste.
This guy has also directed Saiyuki, No.6, Orphen, Kiba, and Gilgamesh, I love those dubs. The guy, if you heard him in the Saiyuki commentary, he sounded like a decent guy, funny. I don't think he's going out of his way to screw over the animes that people thing are "bad," think he's just adding his own personal touch, but not trying to mess up the show too bad. Like...I think he's trying to make it his own "child" without ruining the story. Does that make since? I mean, if you're going to direct, might as well add your own touch to it. I would do that, but it isn't like he's writing the script. So, if you don't like how something is written, then that's the writer's fault, not the director's. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Here's the thing: he writes most of those adaptive scripts, too. The ones he doesn't, he "oversees," so he edits the scripts written by whoever else at Sentai that's helping him carry the workload. I'm not a fan of Foster's writing or directing. Even "Good Foster" to me lacks a kind of sincerity or affection, like he's more interested in his own wit and flavor than the distinct voice of the work he's adapting. All his adaptive work sounds like him, and the "best Foster dubs" are for work that just so happened to sound like him in the Japanese too. BUT! I have no problem with him continuing to get work. He has for years. That's fine. My problem is that he's been getting 90% of Sentai's output and they have a LOT of output. Even if he was an excellent ADR director, which discrepancies of taste aside, he's not, not excellent anyway, that would be too much for one person to apply the necessary TLC to each property for. Directing, writing, and casting a dub, or even one of those processes at once, is an art, not a mechanical, repeatable process. He can't be *expected* to turn out quality work when he's Sentai's go-to guy and getting rushed and overworked. That he's notorious for lacking givadamm in his work is just insult to injury. @~@ EDIT: As regards Penguindrum's dub specifically...the problem here, and I think this is the dominating complaint here is not just that "it's Foster," because I agree 100% with the original poster's summations of Chevalier, HOTD and Mardock Scramble being enjoyable for three completely different reasons. No, it's that Penguindrum fits in a VERY specific slot of "material Foster does not and presumably cannot do well." When Foster is called upon to take something very seriously, as with Chevalier, a period piece (well, mostly) with no real wiggle room for subversion or Fosterization, or the upcoming Grave of the Fireflies, it usually goes over just fine. That being said, it has to have *absolutely no wiggle room* for nonsense. Guin Saga had the unfortunacy to be seen as "fantasy that takes itself too seriously" and got a gag dub for it. It lacked the "gravity" that a period piece with morbid low fantasy or a massive Ghibli classic would have. When he's given schlock like High School of the Dead, Ghost Stories, or Samurai Girls, he's probably going to turn out an inaccurate, over-acted, "poor" dub but it's...okay? This is debatable, and while I don't "admire" the practice because it is disrespectful to the original material, it doesn't bother me because it's essentially "garbage in, garbage out" and so long as it's entertaining, the integrity isn't all that important. So they're bad dubs that remain...somehow forgivable. After all, how praiseworthy are Funimation's very well dubbed renditions of Master of Martial Hearts or Sekirei? I'm glad they're faithful to the original intent of the material, but tossing fresh fruit into the garbage doesn't make it less trashy. So it's debatable. And then every once in a while he gets a project like Mardock Scramble that, wonder of wonders, fits his voice as an adaptive writer. I haven't seen the movie, but from what I hear, it's a dark, melodramatic, profane work that "takes itself too seriously" but in a way that's tremendously entertaining. The dub for it was praised principally because this is the kind of work Foster understands well, which is great. I really wish Sentai was dubbing Detroit Metal City so he could indulge in it, too. I think he'd do it justice in English. To get to the point: Foster absolutely ruins material that requires a balance of humor and drama, pathos and wry charm, and he really really really can't deal with subtlety in character writing. Angel Beats! is a horrifically bad dub with a professional sheen on it, sort of like a really terrible pop song. Some people embrace it for that sheen, but it ruins the original material, and the more you care about that material, the more painful it is to watch. I guess it can be said that Foster is allergic to the truly sincere in anime...unless it's TOO SERIOUS to make fun of without coming across a little jerkish, as in your Chevalier's and GotF's. The bad news? That combination of humor and tragedy, bombast and subtlety, all of it working together to come across as unironically and sincerely as possible is...most anime. At least, a lot of anime that's deemed worthy enough to bring over here. And none moreso than Penguindrum, which strikes a balance even Funimation might have trouble getting just right, (as evidenced by the occasional WILD swing of opinions on their dub of Ouran, which I adore and think is excellent, but it bugs some fans.) But you know what? They would try their darndest to get it right. They really would. Foster? From a combination of having a LOT on his plate, and being either unable or unwilling to work with material of this kind sincerely, will not give a flying fork. X_x; |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6872 Location: Kazune City |
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Oh ho, sounds like the GotF speculation thread all over again. What's the ETA on "Quit being such a fag, Shouma!"?
Or there's stuff like Demon King Demon King, which is an obvious "Let's get this POS out the door to placate the 'no dub, no buy' crowd" effort from all involved.
Last edited by Zalis116 on Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Great. Steven Foster is taking on my favorite anime in the past few years.
Well... the Golgo 13 dub seemed good enough. I liked Cromartie High School's dub Honestly, I don't really have a lot of experience with Foster, because he tends to direct dubs for garbage (like Clannad), and I tend to avoid garbage, but his reputation worries me. How'd he suddenly get a good show? I hear Ghost Stories is an abomination. Funny, but an abomination. |
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Vata Raven
Posts: 710 Location: TN |
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You honestly calling all his shows he'd directed "crap?" Orphen (1st season) isn't crap. No.6 is a great anime. Saiyuki is a awesome anime. He's also directed Un-Go and Heaven's Memo Pad, and chances are, he's going to end up directing Kids on the Slope. Honestly, it's you own damn opinion on if you think the man does a piss poor job on these shows. I find all his directions to be great because I don't go out of my way to compare the Japanese and English, of course they're going to be done differently, they're directed by different people. English is the original for me. |
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Animerican14
Posts: 963 Location: Saint Louis, MO |
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Well, one person's garbage is another person's treasure... so maybe it seems sudden for you, but maybe not so sudden for others (especially since, you know, I'm sure many people disagree with you about Clannad. Haven't see the show yet myself, though. And, I personally don't consider Angel Beats "garbage," another show he's dubbed.) Gah, this post turned out to be more of substance-packed site for dub doomsday predictions for Mawaru Penguindrum's dub than I anticipated. It's rather scary, and makes the under-3-months wait for Penguindrum and its dub seem longer now. But, seeing all this disdain and powerful belief in a catastrophic Penguindrum dub from Foster before we've ever heard the dub or even seen its cast list, as substantiated as it might be... will this dub even be given a chance in the first place when Dec. 31st actually passes by? How good will the dub need to be to negate what might end up becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy-- one that pleases both the Theron that likes AB's dub and the JO that hates that dub? For one like myself that usually takes a lot of stock (perhaps too much) in what ANN critics and top contributors say about dubs, it's startling to see such a contrast between viewpoints/standards that I had thought as not being so unlike each other when it comes to dub evaluation. Don't think I've ever thought this much about an ADR director for a show as I have now, and this thinking is opening up a whole can of questions that ask about the relationship between Stephen Foster and a show he dubs for (and perhaps the relationship b/w any ADR director and the anime with his/her imprint). How is the ADR director chosen? If Foster's really getting 90% of Sentai's dubs loaded onto him, why is that-- is it a matter of him continuously volunteering for shows he apparently lacks "sincerity" for, being a workaholic, or him somehow being less busy than Chris Ayres and Janice Williams? Will the director necessarily have seen and comprehended the whole of the work if the anime has already been completed? When Foster got Penguindrum or started work on dubbing it, was he already aware of how the show played itself out? Isn't that how it's for pretty much all ADR directors of few-cour anime nowadays? How long does an ADR director take on dubbing a show, and is it common for him/her to micromanage? How far ahead is the dubbing done before the physical release? Right now, it seems like Foster has... what, at least three shows (MP, Heaven's Memo Pad, Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere) and two movies (GotF, Children Who Chase Lost Voices) coming out before the year's up. Has Foster worked on all 5 these in just the last half of the year alone, or does the amount seem daunting just due to how all his stuff is being released in a similar timeframe? I sure hope finding answers to these, at least the general sort, aren't completely out of the question. ~~~~~ Now, I have a hope in mind regarding Steven Foster's handling of the dub--- and if it's so far and completely out of the realm of possibility, or see some huge major flaws in this hope, let me know-- and that is the fact of just who the heck is behind it-- Kunihiko Ikuhara, the "Director of Revolutionary Girl Utena" as he'll surely be called on the back case art. Would it be reasonable to assume that maybe he would defer more to Ikuhara's vision than he has other creators in the past, based in part on that pedigree and the relatively strong Utena fandom associated with him? (Heck, double-checking Utena's credits compared to MP's, it seem he was even more heavily invested in the latter than the former!) Ikuhara has also, in the past, been more involved in the American anime scene than others (his help with Adolescence of Utena's dub comes to mind)-- maybe that could happen again here? And maybe it doesn't need to be so much the dub performance that Ikuhara or whatever-committee-made-Penguindrum could supervise, but maybe the script? As much as Revolutionary Girl Utena's dub was awfully flat and lopsided in places, it seemed at least super-faithful to the original script from what I saw of it (even to a fault at times--- the ball/egg pun in "Nanami's Egg," anyone?), and thus kept plenty of meaning intact-- something that might matter more to me than anything else re: Mawaru Penguindrum. |
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nobahn
Subscriber Posts: 5120 |
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I was singularly unimpressed by 5 Centimeters Per Second; and what he did to Voices of a Distant Star was, in a word, unforgivable.
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opn
 Posts: 904 |
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Williams is the one who told me that foster was directing it and since it was just decided noone had been casted yet so its true. I do not get the hate for him at all. I think he's a perfectly fine director with some bad dubs (guin saga and orphen) but the clannad,AB and especcily the children who chase lost voices dub were all good. Mardock scramble was also a good dub so have faith and wait until the show comes out before saying it will be crap.
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NJ_
 Posts: 3022 Location: Wallington, NJ |
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Wait, he directed 5 Centimeters Per Second? Well that explains why CoMix Wave had it redubbed. |
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Animerican14
Posts: 963 Location: Saint Louis, MO |
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Ah, so you're the one that asked! That's cool.... was that all you asked, though? (I have a feeling several fans would've punctuated that question with a follow up of "WHY?", heheh) And, "it was just decided"? Aww, jeez... hasn't Sentai been sitting on this license for at least some number of months before announcing it, given that NIS America had hinted at someone else having the license over the summer? I'd imagine that they'd have started dubbing it earlier, but instead, they have less than 3 months to effectively start voice work. And what the bloody hell about all those other things he's dubbing that's arriving before the end of the year-- are they being done simultaneously, or has there been more progress made on some shows than others? Well, in any case, I guess that at least answers my sub-question out of my can of questions, "How far ahead is the dubbing done before the physical release [for Penguindrum]?"-- 2-3 months that include the Holiday season . Wonder about those other questions of mine....
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penguintruth
Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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[First part of post removed. Ditch the attitude and condescension. As the rules state you can disagree, but are expected to do so civilly and respectfully. The condescending and outright vicious behavior you exhibited here is not going to fly. Learn to be civil or don't bother posting. - Keonyn] "English is the original to me." This is not a matter of opinion. It is a FACT that the Japanese version is the original. If the Japanese original didn't exist, the English version wouldn't exist, because there wouldn't be anything to dub in the first place! You don't even care if an English dub is inaccurate? If it disrespects the original material? If it spits in the face of the hard working people who made the show in the first place? You might as well not watch the show at all if that's your attitude. An anime is Japanese. The people who made it, the people who originated the storyline, the dialogue, the music, the voices, all Japanese. Now, that doesn't make them inherently superior because they're Japanese, it makes them the first, it makes them important because they were the first, that this product doesn't exist without them. English dubs are a marketing tool. An anime can exist without an English dub. It cannot exist without the Japanese crew. It simply does not exist without them. You might as well not watch anime if you have so little regard for an English dub's accuracy to the original product. |
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getchman
 He started itPosts: 9121 Location: Bedford, NH |
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guys, ADV was given permission by the Japanese liscensor to turn Ghost Stories into a gag dub. everyone involved with that show, not just Foster, did their best to make it goofy as possible. I loved it. i've never seen 5cm/sec in japanese, only ADV's dub. that was years ago, and it still slightly depresses me when i think about it, so i will probably never watch it again
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opn
Posts: 904 |
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Heh yep and that wasn't the only thing i asked (i asked about the status of a lot of other shows like space bros,MB and who was directing the bodacious space pirates dub) but for penguindrum that was all i asked  . And im really curious on what their going to do too but given how fantastic the dub for children who chase lost voices was i have faith in foster. And i imagine shows have had more progress done than others.
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