Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: When Supernatural Battles Became Commonplace
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Clarste
Posts: 428 |
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Also could have been solved by him being more direct and "dropping character" to explain things to her. I think a longstanding failure of communication is exactly what we're supposed to take away from it, and why it's going to be resolved so relatively easily after both of them get pep talks from third parties. That fact doesn't diminish the scene in any way. |
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Plasmaeclipse
 Posts: 153 |
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It did for me the entire scene just felt hamfisted and melodramatic. The leaps in logic to make the miscommunication work grinds too much on my brain. They spend a majority of their time together I have to assume that in years neither of them ever made small talk about the kind of fiction Hatoko liked or that Andou, despite knowing that she doesn't get his lingo AND wanting to look cool in front of her, never tried to figure out her interests to impress her? For this to work these two will have had to have spent years together with Andou knowing literally nothing about Hatoko. If it had just started with the Literature Club where Hatoko doesn't fit in and the environment of having multiple people who share Andou's interests exacerbated the problem to this point I could have bought it, but I can't buy that in approx. 10 years of friendship this couldn't have figured it out by now.
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3653 |
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While we're discussing the implausible... also, superpowers.
I think if you're hunting for a real, justifiable relationship you're not going to find that here. If you aren't prepared to let the show dictate the terms, I don't think the show is going to work for you. |
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Plasmaeclipse
Posts: 153 |
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I've been enjoying the show quite a bit I thought it's been handling all the character stuff great until now, it's just this one episode that's getting to me.
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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A male protagonist in a harem show is oblivious to the feelings of one (more likely ALL) of the females in his harem? How ridiculous, and only in line with 90% of all harem shows ever. If you don't like harem shows that's fine (and if that's the case, you should probably just leave this show now), but to consider the male lead's obliviousness a deal-breaker means you've no idea how this is gonna go. And for people who are afraid of being hurt (emotionally) it's totally plausible that a person would be afraid to make plain their feelings out of worry of rejection and tell themselves that it's "fine" just being the friend in the interim. It's the entire BASIS of the "nice guy syndrome". |
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Plasmaeclipse
Posts: 153 |
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First off please don't pull the "this is how the genre works deal with it" argument I hate that, its a stupid non defense that tells me to stop thinking and just take it cause that's how it's always been.
The show has managed to conduct itself in an intelligent manner and Andou, while dopey, is very in tune with people's emotions. His chunni nature allows him to act on that insight in a headstrong manner without much fear of repercussions until far after the fallout. The problems I have with the episode could have easily been averted with a simple change. Frame her giant rant as Hatoko being jealous of Tomoyo or even the Lit. Club as a whole. Framing it from the "you don't understand" angle is shaky at best because the episode doesn't build to it well enough IMO. The jealousy angle is clearly there, but it's kinda brushed off once the don't understand angle crops up. It becomes so much of a non issue in the face of what was presented I have to wonder why they even bothered other than a easy excuse to spark the flame. Instead of being all dejected the first time she just accepts it and moves on, they're best friends even if she doesn't always understand him she's the only one willing to entertain him so everything okay. But then high school starts and he joins Lit. Club. Well now there's more people willing to entertain him, and not only that they actually understand what he's saying. Then with recent events like seeing Andou and Tomoyo's "date" she finds herself becoming irrationally jealous even though she knows she shouldn't be, maybe she spots them doing their little chunni union to add to the jealousy. All this pent up anger and jealousy turns into self loathing before it finally explodes out in pretty much the same way as the episode (though with some adjustments to take a couple shots at Tomoyo). It achieves the same effect and would have built on what was established better. |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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You guys with your deep insightful posts all trying to look cool. You miss what's important.
You want to know what I'm worried about. I'll tell you. Did spoiler[anyone think to turn off the stove under Hatoko's stew?] That's what I want to know. |
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Plasmaeclipse
Posts: 153 |
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Don't worry they have Sayumi's Route of Origin even if the house burns down she can just put it back the way it was
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Yttrbio
Posts: 3653 |
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Hatoko doesn't spoiler[need to turn on the stove in the first place.] They do show her turning it off, though.
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jojothepunisher
 Posts: 799 |
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That's what I was worrying about that entire time while spoiler[Andou was chasing Hatoko]. |
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trilaan
 Posts: 1055 Location: Texas |
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World's. Most. Epic. RANT! A great example of the Festivus, Airing of Grievances.
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Sorry for my earlier phrasing, on re-read it is just terrible and I apologize for that. That said, I do stand-by the "he doesn't know, because .. plot" The fact is that there's a lot of angst that's gonna happen that could be avoided with talk, but that's not the story they're telling and frankly there's a bunch of people (in real life) that DON'T talk to each other when they really should, and even saying "they're friends" doesn't solve that because friends OFTEN get taken for granted. All that said, I think you're either going to "get" Hatoko, or you won't. I don't mean that in an intellectual way, I mean you've either experienced that or you haven't. (to this day I know people who see themselves in other anime characters that I just don't "get") For some people, there's someone they know that they feel they CAN'T lose. They got to know them as friends (maybe they were in a relationship when they met, maybe they were friends as kids, etc.) and one day one of them realized they liked the other. But that's not always easy to say, you have an established relationship, and its RISKY to change it. Especially in your teens, everyone around you is changing and you're possibly ALREADY worried about losing you friend to new friends or other things, so if you tell them you're attracted to them and they don't feel the same, you might never talk to them again. And for some people, that seems WORSE than not being "with" the person they think they love. But that's the thing, before puberty, you don't think about "relationships" you just think "I like hanging out with this person". And Hatoko was fine keeping "stasis", because maybe Andou hadn't "chosen" her yet, but he hadn't "denied" her yet either, anything was possible. Hatoko & Andou's relationship is Shroedinger's cat, it could be there, it could be an illusion, as long as she doesn't ask the question, she won't get an answer, which is both frustrating and comforting depending on what you THINK the answer will be. Andou spending time with Tomoyo makes one answer more real than the other (and not the one she wants). I think her rant makes perfect sense because she's STILL afraid to tell him that she likes him out of fear of rejection. Instead she lashes out about what SEEMS to be driving a wedge between them (his "chuuni"). If it were ONLY about jealousy, she'd have done this back in episode 2 over Mirei. But this is different because when Andou won't even talk to her about what he's doing with Tomoyo because "you (Hatoko) wouldn't understand", that's a big deal because now she's about to lose EVERYTHING. If she "fixes" the her lack of understanding of chuuni, then they can still be friends (and maybe she can even "steal" him from Tomoyo), but if she can't understand his hobby, then she not only loses him to another girl but she maybe loses him entirely even as a friend. Sure, as an outside observer, you can say ANDOU should value their friendship more and make more effort and/or they should AS FRIENDS discuss things and reinforce their relationship, but that's not always how things go and it is REALLY easy to doubt yourself and your place in things, especially at that age. |
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Great Rumbler
 Posts: 329 Location: Oklahoma |
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Surely everyone here has experienced that moment when one of your friends starts talking about something and you just smile and nod your head approvingly, even though you really don't care one bit, because you don't want to hurt their feelings.
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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I found Hatoko's blow up completely understandable. It ignited not simply because of the jealousy she felt seeing him hang out with Tomoyo, but her realization that Tomoyo understands Jurai in a way Hatoko never will, because Tomoyo gets and shares (but I'm not sure Hatoko knows that) his hobbies. Whereas Hatoko's been trying and failing to understand him for years, and pretends that it's not a problem because she's afraid the gulf will pull him away from her. Her angry rant was earned, and frankly, I agreed with some of the points she made. Why does Jurai prefer the dark side of things? Why does he like terms like "evil" and "sin"? Does he want to be the bad guy? (I know he probably just wants to be the "dark and gritty" hero, but it's actually bugged me.)
I felt Hatoko's rant was brilliantly crafted, because I understood it on a visceral emotional level and as meta textual commentary of the show (and the genre!) as a whole. Kudos to the voice actress for selling it so well, too. As for what kind of literature Hatoko likes, when she returns Andou's light novel to him in the middle school flashback, she comments that it's "just not like a regular book." I took that to mean that she's just one of those people who only reads contemporary realistic fiction, and can't stand fantastical elements of any kind, including scifi and magical realism. I don't get these people at all, but they exist! Hell, I'm *related* to people like that! 
Anybody have any fun stories to share about friends and family putting up with your own chuunibyo or fanatical fandoms? 
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gpanthony
Posts: 241 |
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One of my best friends is that kind of person, I love her a lot and like hanging out with her, but she just doesn't get pop fiction things the way me and some of our other friends do. She's very active and I'm not to that extent, so theres definitley a wedge there. Actually, this opens up an interesting perspective to me so perhaps I should make greater strides to go on some of her outings with her. I could definitely benefit from it, I think. Time to send a text. |
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