Forum - View topicREVIEW: Lucky Star Blu-Ray
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Actar
 Posts: 1074 Location: Singapore |
|
|||||||||||||
|
Let me preface this by saying that I disagree with the Slice-of-life show dichotomy the reviewer has posited. In contrast to atmospheric versus comedic, I would go for realistic versus surreal. K-On! and Lucky Star on one end and Nichijou on the other. Ironically enough, using my paradigm, Azumanga Daioh would fall right smack in the middle and perhaps that is why I never had a liking for it.
Regardless, I've already written ad nauseam about why I feel Lucky Star is a one of the best realistic slice-of-life series out there. To make things very brief, the main charm and appeal of the show is its depiction of mundane life and the fact that humor can be found within it. It makes us feel that we're not alone in our daily struggles. Just because something is simple, doesn't mean that it's lazy. This is a logical fallacy that the reviewer committed. In fact, it's very interesting to note that the sections that appeal to the reviewer the most are the Lucky Channel and Anizawa sequences - the loudest, most blatant and most in-your-face sequences... Hm... Firstly, one of the main arguments about the point of this show being its references to otaku culture is honestly ridiculous to me. Lucky Star was literally one of the first anime that I watched and I was still hooked onto the charm of the characters and humor. I knew none of the shows that it was referencing. But you know what? That didn't matter in the slightest. I didn't know what Initial-D was, but I enjoyed the exaggerated take on Yui's driving. In fact, I'd argue that as I got to know more and more anime, the show got better and better with each re-watch as it gained even more meaning. The characters lack any depth? Look. People in life aren't that deep nor do they face situations on a daily basis that afford them opportunities for deep introspection or character growth. 99% of the time, for high-schoolers, grades are the most important thing in their lives. Let's look at the simple things like the characters' favorite foods and eating habits. We usually don't get to know these things in most other shows unless it serves a particular narrative function (except for C.C. because product placement). In this regard, the characters in Lucky Star are far more "real" than any of them. Speaking of "real", what is this about the places not feeling "real"? The move to make all of the side characters faceless was a brilliant move and the lack of a sense of place was a true reflection about how most people are not concerned with the people and places not immediately relevant to them. School and home, home and school + the occasional outing with friends. That was the entire world to many students and that sense of "claustrophobia" is perfectly represented here. It makes the festival, beach, Comiket and Nara outings feel all the more special because of the sudden change of location. What is this insistence on the jokes in the show not being "actual comedy"? The insinuation there is that comedy is something that can actually be defined as objectively good comedy (and therefore there being an "actual" sense of humor) is worrying at best and disturbing at worst. I would have liked a little bit more elaboration on how the jokes missed their mark. If you're talking about jokes that go on and on and on without a punchline, Azumanga Daioh is filled with them and it seems to get a free pass. If you're talking about the discussions or observations that they constantly have and make... could it be that they weren't meant to be "jokes" in the first place? - Cramming the night before for a test and getting amazing marks? Yup. - Getting health anxiety after watching medical dramas? Yup. - Not buying the front most item off a shelf because everyone else has touched it? Yup. - Making the excuse of taking a break whenever your parent comes in to check up on you? Yup. - Getting bitten by mosquitoes after a day at the festival? Yup. - Pretending that a half-filled straw is Pocky? Yup. - Being stingy on everything else but your hobby? Yup. ...and that's just the tip of the iceberg! This is one of the very few anime to have pointed out these trivial moments in life that we take for granted, shown us that we're not alone, and shown us that it is these trivial moments that make life fun. The 4, later far more, characters give us different perspectives on the same situation that make everyone feel included. Also, more often than not, they provide a new perspective on things as well. Lastly, the music. Again, it's simple, but iconic and memorable. Because it's simple, it stays with you and I cannot think of any other soundtrack that has the same kind of charm to it. While I can completely understand and respect the reviewer's opinion, as a review, I found this one to be disappointing as it lacked nuance and didn't appear considered enough. Yes, the reviewer might not have been able to relate to the characters due to the cultural/generational gap, but the fact that this wasn't addressed was a failure in and of itself and showed a lack of self-reflexiveness. The reviewer doesn't even seem to acknowledge the phenomenon around the show and/or try to understand how other people might find the show funny and/or endearing. Sometimes, there are shows that don't adhere to the traditional frameworks and rubrics that you're taught in school and I think it is important to think outside the box or alter our judgment criteria to fully appreciate them. In my opinion, he essentially missed the point of the show. This Review: D+ (The irony.) |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
|
garlogan78
Posts: 171 |
|
|||||||||||||
This! Lucky Star was one of my first anime, and I found it really funny and relatable despite not understanding/even noticing most of the referential humor. |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
|
Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18214 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||||||||||||
Cases where the episode reviewer is also the physical release (or streaming run) reviewer are actually much more the exception than the rule. Usually that only happens when having someone else do it isn't feasible (often the case with later entries in franchises), when no one else is interested, or when the episode reviewer specifically wants to make further commentary on the series. Much more commonly you'll see different people on the title at different times, such as with my upcoming review of Yatterman Night vs. Nick's streaming summary vs. Rose's episode reviews. |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
_Emi_
 Posts: 498 Location: Langjökull |
|
|||||||||||||
|
I watched this show when it first came over here and found it to be exceedingly dull. Didn't even find the Lucky Channel bits all that funny. The only time I laughed was when Konata talks about teaching kids to fight to protect themselves from perverted adults and Kogami points out that they would grow up to adults who know how to fight.
I actually bought all the SEs of this. Thankfully I only paid $15 for most of them. The t-shirts were easily worth that. Some of the most comfortable t-shirts I own. Never cared that I didn't get V.6. |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
leeoflittlefaith
 Posts: 104 |
|
|||||||||||||
|
I can't really disagree with most of the review and yet I feel it's a bit harsh. I rewatched some of it recently and I soon found myself comparing it to The Big Bang Theory with its references-as-jokes and 'Konata is an otaku lol' skits. And yet I still think it offers a bit more than a D rating deserves. The overly laid-back nature of it does create its own unique feeling that sets it apart from other slice-of-life shows, it seems to intentionally revel in it rather than just be a boring show like another slice-of-life might.
|
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
|
Swissman
Posts: 768 Location: Switzerland |
|
|||||||||||||
No wonder you still like it. It has sentimental value to you. Just say that in the beginning and disagree with the reviewer's opinion briefly and politely. It's much more effective than your long winded rebuttal which comes across as overly defensive and arrogant. Furthermore, if Azumanga Daioh were one of the first anime you watched back in 2002, I bet you'd defend it with the same arguments.
I think he explained quite clearly that the "comedy" in Lucky Star lacks clear set-ups and punchlines, and that its reference humor is not witty enough. He doesn't think that Manzai-humour justifies itself for actual humour, too. What's so difficult to understand? The reviewer simply has different standards than you when it comes to comedy.
Come on, that's BS. Azumanga Daioh is filled with set ups and punchlines! Just think of the kitchen knife incident during the school trip. The punchlines are mostly so evident that there is no need to point them out, really. It's equivalent to the "..."-speech bubbles and flying crows in City Hunter as a reaction to what stupid things Ryo has said or done. |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
|
Boyhime732
Posts: 7 |
|
|||||||||||||
|
I watched 10 episodes as a kid, went downstairs, and never watched again. In retrospect, now that I don't have a "finish everything" mind, that type of show probably wasn't as much my type of thing as I thought.
It was entertaining, but I think a lot of Lucky Channel went over my head. |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
|
Actar
Posts: 1074 Location: Singapore |
|
|||||||||||||
So what if it has sentimental value? That wasn't why I raised that point for at all. Not to mention, does it having sentimental value cloud my judgement or affect the validity of my points in anyway whatsoever? If it did, please feel free to point them out. (By the way, your point on it not having sentimental value is kinda moot considering I first watched Azumanga Daioh around the same time as Lucky Star...)
Oh, I get all that. I meant specific, concrete examples. He was very clear about them not having punchlines, but I don't think he described any one particular scene.
Here's an (albeit lengthy) quote from my Azumanga Daioh opinion post where I go over the issues that I have with the comedy in Azumanga Daioh:
|
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
|
Swissman
Posts: 768 Location: Switzerland |
|
|||||||||||||
I don't need to. The tone of your rebuttal speaks for itself.
And that's exactly why I like the humour in Azumanga Daiou. The long pauses to highlight the absurdity of certain situations. I'm perfectly fine with absurdist little vignettes which seem "pointless". I don't need another character commenting or doing something to close off or justify any gags. To each his own. |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
|
NoWayNoWay
Posts: 20 |
|
|||||||||||||
Thank you for saying everything I wanted to say in a more eloquent way than I ever could. I also especially appreciate you bringing up the Slice of Life scale of realistic vs surreal. It's something I've noticed as well with a lot of Slice of Life shows. It's always a relief finding comments like yours after reading disagreeable reviews like this one, 
I'm also one of those who watched Lucky Star when I wasn't aware of many of the anime and Japanese pop culture references in it and still found it incredibly hilarious and, more than anything, super relatable! I think the thing about Lucky Star's references is that they're not really the meat of the joke. Usually it's not the fact that Konata is referencing, say, Haruhi, that's supposed to be funny. It's the fact that she's making a reference to some anime none of her friends have watched and usually in a very inappropriate/hard to understand way. I always identified mostly with Kagami and her reactions, for example, since I ever hardly understood where Konata was coming from, and that made those scenes hilarious to me. I always find it funny when people complain about the Lucky Star girls lacking depth. I mean, I can give them that with Miyuki, who's just set up to be perfection incarnate, but Konata, Kagami and Tsukasa are all pretty nuanced characters, I believe. Just because there's no huge emotional drama or big character conflict doesn't mean that they're all just tropes. I mean, did they miss all the scenes that make mention of Konata's dead mother, and how Konata reacted in those moments? Even ignoring that, there's a lot of details that show the nuance of the characters throughout the whole series. For example: - There's a bunch of scenes that hint that Tsukasa, despite being a very lighthearted and unasuming kind of person, is troubled by the fact that she's never managed to catch up to Kagami. I mean, did everyone miss the OVA's volleyball game? That was some emotionally charged stuff right there! - The whole confession misunderstanding scene with Kagami. I think there's a reason Kagami is generally considered one of the better tsundere out there. It's because she's relatable. It's easy to understand where she's coming from, and why she wouldn't want, for example, Konata to know that she chose liberal arts just to be in the same classroom as everyone else. Because she'd get teased to death, that's why! I wouldn't want her to know either, if I was Kagami! - Despite Kagami and Konata's usual banter, Kagami always apologizes to Konata whenever she realizes she's hit a weak spot. A long time ago I rewatched the whole show to fish for moments when Kagami made a jab at Konata without being provoked first (of which were many more than I thought, to my utter surprise, ), and she absolutely always apologized if she noticed Konata had gotten actually depressed. It was a very nice detail, and gives an extra edge to Kagami's characterization.
- Then there was the concert scene where Konata, despite her usual outgoing character, is so moved that she's rendered speechless for the rest of the night. Moments like that show how deep Konata's passion for the stuff she loves is. It's also incredibly relatable, as someone who has felt exactly those emotions when I went to a concert of my favorite band with some of my favorite friends. Moments like this flesh out her character and give her more emotional depth than "wacky otaku girl". - Then there's how Tsukasa tries to be responsible and do her schoolwork, but she ends up putting so much thought into it that she ends up doing nothing until the last moment? Compare that with Konata's brand of irresponsibility where she just puts it off until the last moment on purpose. And again compare that with Kagami who's confirmed to be responsible and work hard because she's the kind of person who hates to lose. So it's not just "irresponsible character tropes" vs "responsible character tropes". The presentation makes you understand why each character ends up doing or not doing their homework and the reasons behind that (which is MUCH MORE than, say, Tomo from Azumanga Daioh ever got). - The scene where Kagami has a fight with her older sister because she forgot to buy the groceries her sister had asked her (over a text message) to buy. They yell at each other and Kagami storms out of the house to buy them. Shortly after, Tsukasa tags behind, insisting on going with her, which softens Kagami a little. They get back home later than expected and they silently get to work on preparing dinner. After everything is said and done, we get to see them eating, their parents vocally appreciating the effort their daughters had put into cooking the delicious dinner (unaware of the previous conflict), and we also get a glimpse of the sisters silently making up and smiling at each other. It's a very beautiful, nuanced scene, and it's also something that I could very easily see happening in real life with me and my own sister. And all of this is off the top of my head! It's no wonder that they all have traits that I find deeply relatable. The fact that their character traits are explored in day to day moments and events instead of having a huge melodrama plot bring them out doesn't mean that they don't have personalities beyond their labels. Yoshimizu (the mangaka) said in an interview that he did not designate any particular person as his self-insertion; instead he split many facets of him into different characters. So yeah, there's definitely more to these characters beyond their outward "otaku", "tsundere", and "dojikko" labels.
I don't understand what you mean when you say that Lucky Star doesn't set up its jokes/punchlines properly. Could you give examples? And there's also a whole lot of jokes that don't even rely on Manzai. I can pick plenty of (pretty hilarious, imo) examples where there's absolutely no Manzai: - Gag: Hiyori falls down and goes to great lengths to avoid falling on her drawing hand. The joke is presented with a good dose of comedic hyperbole and art shift. The joke is that she's willing to get even more hurt that she normally would have, just because her drawing hand is THAT important to her. It's also very relatable, for anyone that engages in a craft/activity. No manzai required. - Gag: The whole volleyball match scene sets up this whole glorious scene where Tsukasa, after receiving an encouraging speech from her teammates, jumps up to deliver the final blow and get the last winning point... only to miss and hit the net. No manzai. Great bait and switch comedy. - Gag: The teacher is writing a huge ass comment (like this one, ) on the internet, but just as she's about to publish it, the website fails! She tries to salvage it by undoing it, but the comment is gone, devoured by the annals of the web. No manzai. Only a Murphy's Law gag combined with a healthy dose of relatability.
- Gag: In the beach episode there's a gag where Tsukasa picks up a shell and puts it on her ear to listen to the ocean. Then this whole gorgeous montage comes to pass with ocean waves, the sky, and underwater imagery. It's a very beautiful scene. But then, a bug comes out of the shell and scares Tsukasa to death. Another amazing bait and switch/visual gag. No manzai. Plenty of relatability as well! - Gag: A scene opens up with only Kagami, as usual, having been the only one amongst the trio that finished her homework. This is the usual responsible character vs irresponsible character gag. But the joke doesn't stop there. After that we go back and get shown how Tsukasa did try to do her homework, but put so much focus on calculating and thinking about how much homework she must do each day of her week off to finish in time, that she ended up doing nothing at all. No manzai. The joke is making a jab at how people usually put a lot of focus into the wrong thing. Very relatable. - Gag: Tsukasa gets a new phone. She's very excited about it, even though she takes forever to finish typing a single short text message. She gets so excited, in fact, that she starts using it to text Kagami even when they're in the same house. Kagami humors her at first, with long replies, but gets progressively irritated at the inane topics, and her replies get progressively curt and short, up until she snaps and goes to Tsukasa's room (catching her red-handed writing a text, lol) and tells her that even though she has a phone now, she can still talk face to face with Kagami. The comedic progression is very well done. This gag is also great because it works both ways whether you relate to Kagami, Tsukasa, or both. No manzai. Just situational comedy. - Gag: Konata visits the Hiiragi's one summer day. She notices the air fan, and goes "aaahhh" in front of it to make a funny noise. Kagami makes a jab at her for being so childish. But Kagami's father was listening in, and reveals that Kagami did the same thing in the morning as well, much to Kagami's utter embarrassment. No manzai, just good ol' hypocritical comedy. - Gag: Everyone is in the arcade, and Konata is kicking butt in some fighting game. After she wins, the camera shifts to the other side of the machine to see the face of the guy who just lost, who looks like a no good punk. He menacingly stands up to get a look at the person who beat him, but when he sees Konata, a very small girl, he flinches and just leaves in shame. No manzai. Just a great visual gag. - Gag: Konata finally decides to put effort into study. After an hour or so she decides to take a short break playing her online game. After a few minutes of playing, she gets some super rare item, and decides to get all her online friends from the game together to celebrate. At this point the camera pans to the empty notebook with her unfinished homework. No manzai. A great visual gag. - Gag: The scene starts up with Konata and Kagami looking proud and under the weather, respectively. When Miyuki asks them how their studying went, Kagami says that she couldn't get enough done, with Konata proudly announcing that this time she actually got a whole lot of studying done, and was feeling pretty good about it. When Miyuki asks them how many hours of studying they put in, they respond in unison, at the same time: "4 hours!" No manzai. Great joke setup. - There's also plenty of hilarious background events. For example, in the Valentine episode, a whole gag happens in the background where a guy gives chocolates to a delinquent looking dude, has his feelings reciprocated, and then starting to date. It's adorable, and it all happens in the background! Then there's a background gag in the Comiket episode, where we see Akira's poster showing up in the episode. It's all well and good until a guy knocks it down and messes it up. This is all in the background, and is pretty hilarious by itself, but then in Lucky Channel it's brought back when they mention that Akira was supposed to show up in the episode, but couldn't because she got sick. Then Shiraishi tries to comfort her by saying that she DID show up, because they put a poster of her in the episode. And here's when you think back of that background gag and laugh and laugh and laugh. Again, no manzai. - Need I even mention all the great gags that involve the overly eager shopkeepers? Those don't have any manzai either. And these gags are just off the top of my head! You'll also notice that none of these gags involved any Manzai whatsoever, and also didn't involve any anime/manga/games references/parodies. I think it's also worth mentioning that I last rewatched Lucky Start maybe in 2012? 2013? So clearly I found all these things I mentioned memorable enough for them to stick to me throughout the years, which is more than I can say for a lot of other comedy/Slice of Life series. Now, I'll admit that Lucky Star is a very character focused show, and if you don't find any of the girls or their interactions particularly appealing, then there's nothing the show (or any of these jokes, I guess) can offer to you. And that's fine. I've disliked plenty of generally beloved anime (Slice of Life or otherwise) for these same reasons.
This is wrong. I watched Azumanga Daioh before Lucky Star, and it also felt very lackluster in comparison to me as well. I think it was mostly because I found the Lucky Star girls to be incredibly relatable in comparison to the Azumanga girls, who are in general way more one-note and wacky. I'm not criticizing Azumanga Daioh, and I can see the appeal and why a lot of people seem to appreciate it more than Lucky Star. But I think it's wrong to put it on a pedestal as the ideal form of comedy/Slice of Life anime and pretend that those who prefer Lucky Star only do so because it was their first anime or whatever. You're calling Actar out for being somehow "rude", but then proceed to dismiss his whole argument (which was very well put together and backed up with evidence) solely on a single assumption, which I find a very rude thing to do, too. Last edited by NoWayNoWay on Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
|
strawberry-kun
Posts: 301 |
|
|||||||||||||
|
This review perfectly highlights why I don't trust ANN for slice of life reviews.
|
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
|
Razor/Edge
Posts: 607 |
|
|||||||||||||
Most of those reviews were from Nick, i'll bet. This is why I consider him to be, by far, the worst reviewer on ANN. To the point where I don't even consider his opinions valid for a supposedly well respected anime news site. His seems very egotistical about his reviews being the final word and anyone else is wrong. This Lucky Star review is just the first in a long line of reviews he's done that reflects this. Just look at how hard he tried to push The Lost Village as a comedy. No. It was just a terribly written anime that tried too hard to make every character important. They were clearly trying, and just failed miserably. He gave the animation of Unlimited Blade Works a D+. He thought Terror in Resonance was the greatest thing ever and had such a deep and meaningful plot. I don't see how anyone can respect his opinion after reading some of his previous reviews. Maybe he doesn't mean to come off as a egotistical a-hole. But he needs to: A. Get over himself and realize his opinions isn't the final word about whether an anime is actually good or not(especially in comedy, which is the most subjective genre there is, IMO) Or B. learn to write better so he doesn't come off as egotistical a-hole. Either way, he's not nearly at a high enough level of reviewing to be such a big site as ANN. ANN in general seems to have a biased against slice of life anime, as others have said. It's really sad to see. I hope someone doesn't completely pass up on Lucky Star because of a review on such a biased site and after a pretty poor review. It's a great series and one of Kyoto Animation's classics. You might like it. You might not. But you should give it a shot. Last edited by Razor/Edge on Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
|
Lemonchest
Posts: 1771 |
|
|||||||||||||
|
70+ replies to a negative review? Are we sure this isn't a Fate thread?
|
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
redranger
 Posts: 271 |
|
|||||||||||||
|
"Took the world by storm"
Isn't this anime one (note: I said "one") of the reasons Bandai went belly up? They thought it was going to sell really well with all the limited editions and such, but nobody bought it? Anyhoo, I remember trying to watch the first episode and only making it about 6-8 minutes in. The show was awful... |
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
|
Re:SOUL
|
|
|||||||||||||
|
The thing is with series is that it's easier to appreciate in its original 4-panel form. When you combine it into an episode you can't help but feel like there's a story to be told when really there isn't. Seinfeld makes each episode a story about mundane events but Lucky Star isn't like that, it's a show that goes nowhere; a show that's literally about nothing. I enjoyed it anyway.
|
||||||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group