Forum - View topic
REVIEW: Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack Blu-Ray


Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2083
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:39 pm Reply with quote
I think B+ sounds about right. CCA was a good movie, but the Quess / Hathaway aspect really held it back. I think the screen time would have been much better served exploring what led Char to this point from the end of Zeta.

It was instead really glossed over by him having lost faith in humanity. As a direct evolution of First's Char, that wouldn't be that out there. However, this is the same guy that had given that hopeful speech during Zeta. What horribly broke his faith in humanity? What Haman did in ZZ? Because that is more his fault for leaving her unchecked. I don't mind Char going that direction, but it was a big enough disconnect from how he was the last time we saw him that I feel the audience should have been shown rather than told.

That said, the Amuro/Char rivalry was solid, and the battles were absolutely beautiful.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 2551
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:13 pm Reply with quote
Oh hey, its "Sazabi V Nu gundam the animation (and some other meatbag, but w/e)", great fun, maybe they could make a director cut version of it without the meatbag. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Valhern



Joined: 19 Jan 2015
Posts: 916
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:13 pm Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:
I think B+ sounds about right. CCA was a good movie, but the Quess / Hathaway aspect really held it back. I think the screen time would have been much better served exploring what led Char to this point from the end of Zeta.

It was instead really glossed over by him having lost faith in humanity. As a direct evolution of First's Char, that wouldn't be that out there. However, this is the same guy that had given that hopeful speech during Zeta. What horribly broke his faith in humanity? What Haman did in ZZ? Because that is more his fault for leaving her unchecked. I don't mind Char going that direction, but it was a big enough disconnect from how he was the last time we saw him that I feel the audience should have been shown rather than told.

That said, the Amuro/Char rivalry was solid, and the battles were absolutely beautiful.


I haven't watched The Origin because I'd like to wait until it's finished, but after watching Unicorn I've been playing with the idea that the click for Full Frontal actually predates back to Char's Counterattack. I hope I'm eventually right so I can have less mixed feelings about this movie.

Because I love this movie visually. Even after watching Stardust Memory which had great character design and movement, I think that as far as 80-ish style Gundam goes, this is totally my kind of fanservice. I remember vividly Char'rs speech and the great fights scenes thinking "Yeah, this is the best this style can look".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Panon



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 242
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:19 pm Reply with quote
Char (and Amuro) being wildly out of character to fuel a contrived Final Battle story was a much worse problem for me than Quess ever was.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
tintor2



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 501
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:22 pm Reply with quote
Although I don't get why Char suddenly lost of humanity and threw Axis just to make more Newtypes, a friend once told me a videogame (don't know console or game's title) shows "Quattro" a second after his defeat by Haman, talking in a really villain-like form contemplating while staring at Earth as some sort of set up to CCA. His rivalry with Amuro still made no sense considering the two even drink together in Zeta which is an act of close friends according to Japanese people.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lynx Amali



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Posts: 1203
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:55 pm Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:
However, this is the same guy that had given that hopeful speech during Zeta. What horribly broke his faith in humanity?


spoiler[I'd argue it was what happened to Kamille. He saw someone who probably reminded him of himself or those he'd come to be 'close' with, like Amuro and Lalah get hurt because of the whole Earth vs Space situation. ]

Of course, that's probably why I like to refer to CCA as Char's Midlife Crisis.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zin5ki
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6679
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:02 pm Reply with quote
Panon wrote:
Char (and Amuro) being wildly out of character to fuel a contrived Final Battle story was a much worse problem for me than Quess ever was.

If I may posit something, it would be that the each Gundam fans holds something very significant against this film, even if they may not agree with the next person as to what it is.

Only once have I ever seen this entry in the franchise before, an experience that came as much of a disappointment. The tussling in suits! The unceremonious, bewildering character demises! The soundtrack that "gets the job done" without offering anything to bolster the story's climactic nature! We all know that Gundam can offer something more nuanced, more brutal, more balanced and altogether more endearing than this awkward curiosity. Indeed, we are reminded of this very notion with the 0079 flashbacks. Ever does it irk me that this had to be Char and Amuro's swansong, something that is more memorable for its demerits than its positive contributions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
jr240483



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: New York City,New York,USA
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:09 pm Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:
I think B+ sounds about right. CCA was a good movie, but the Quess / Hathaway aspect really held it back. I think the screen time would have been much better served exploring what led Char to this point from the end of Zeta.

It was instead really glossed over by him having lost faith in humanity. As a direct evolution of First's Char, that wouldn't be that out there. However, this is the same guy that had given that hopeful speech during Zeta. What horribly broke his faith in humanity? What Haman did in ZZ? Because that is more his fault for leaving her unchecked. I don't mind Char going that direction, but it was a big enough disconnect from how he was the last time we saw him that I feel the audience should have been shown rather than told.

That said, the Amuro/Char rivalry was solid, and the battles were absolutely beautiful.


what broke his faith? simple. it was the death of his sister. that pretty much drove him into the insanity department which more or less lead to the whole concept of newtypes to be nothing but illusion during the Unicorn era. or that is what banenger's teacher in ep 1 made me think that is what he was trying to teach them.

Lauren Orsini wrote:
Its ending is satisfactorily conclusive, but I wouldn't call it happy.
that's an understatement. its was completely depressing if you ask me. its felt like your watching a mecha version of the X-1999 movie. the whole "kill em all" approach is one of least likable approach for some people. i sure dont. that approach is one of the reason why i never even watched the X-1999 TV series. hell its one of the reasons why i didn't even bother watching the last five to six eps of akame ga kill and i was right to do so. and from the looks of things the director of iron blood orphans is doing the exact same torimo kill em all style for season 2 of IBO. the very extreme dark tone of this movie i believe is all because of how fans distain the way ZZ was done.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2083
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:16 pm Reply with quote
Lynx Amali wrote:
SilverTalon01 wrote:
However, this is the same guy that had given that hopeful speech during Zeta. What horribly broke his faith in humanity?


spoiler[I'd argue it was what happened to Kamille. He saw someone who probably reminded him of himself or those he'd come to be 'close' with, like Amuro and Lalah get hurt because of the whole Earth vs Space situation. ]

Of course, that's probably why I like to refer to CCA as Char's Midlife Crisis.


Does Char even know what happened to Camille? I guess he could have found out at some point, but he had no contact with the AEUG after Hyaku Shiki got trashed by Haman. Camille also makes a recovery by the end of ZZ (maybe not quite full recovery, but seemed to be progressing towards something close).

Anyway, like I said, I don't mind the idea of his hopes and ideals being crushed and then him ending up in his CCA state of mind. I have a problem with them not actually showing how this transition happened because it is incredibly significant and a stark contrast from how we last saw him. Instead we were merely told about it like it was some minor backstory fluff.

jr240483 wrote:
what broke his faith? simple. it was the death of his sister.


Uh, what? Sayla isn't dead. You see her multiple times in ZZ.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zetabag



Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 202
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:57 pm Reply with quote
Overall, I like this movie quite a lot despite it not being as strong of a finale as it could have been. The biggest flaw was the time spent on Quess and Hathaway when the movie could have been spending more time on Amuro and Char. At the very least they could have made Quess and Hathaway more tolerable. For some reason I never found Char's change of character all that jarring. While I would have preferred Tomino focusing on that aspect more, I feel that the movie gives enough hints to gain at least a basic understanding of why he changed.
SilverTalon01 wrote:

It was instead really glossed over by him having lost faith in humanity. As a direct evolution of First's Char, that wouldn't be that out there. However, this is the same guy that had given that hopeful speech during Zeta. What horribly broke his faith in humanity? What Haman did in ZZ? Because that is more his fault for leaving her unchecked. I don't mind Char going that direction, but it was a big enough disconnect from how he was the last time we saw him that I feel the audience should have been shown rather than told.


The movie gave me the impression that Char just got fed up waiting for the earth federation to change and start caring about the colonies. Back in Zeta gundam Char probably believed that all the evils of the federation were concentrated in the Titans and that once the Titans had been elimated the federation would change. Unfortunately very little changed. For instance the "Sweetwater" colony in CCA was originally meant to be temporary housing for the refugees from the Gryps War and the first Neo-zeon war. However the federation later just abandoned them because they didn't give a damn. This why Sweetwater is Char's biggest support base in the movie.

As for the comment about Haman and ZZ gundam.

This is just speculation, but it's possible he was less pissed at Haman and more at the Federation for not standing up to her. IIRC, there were some Feddie politicians that were willing to support Haman as long as they got to keep some of their political power after she took over. It doesn't make sense for Haman to be the direct cause of Char losing his faith in humanity, because in Zeta gundam Char already knew she was power hungry and wanted to finish what the Zabi's started with the OYW.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Angel'sArcanum



Joined: 02 Sep 2010
Posts: 298
Location: Toronto, Ontario
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:21 pm Reply with quote
Well, I'm not too surprised that Lauren's score for story is higher than ZZ, G Reco and F91, though deep down I'm kind of salty about it. The chat I had on one of the other threads with a guy arguing the merits of CCA made me appreciate it a little more in certain respects to the UC timeline, but the story is otherwise garbage, I'd give it a D - a 2 hour film of some of the most bogus politics, irritating new characters, messy context and hurried plot yet bloated narrative, all as an excuse for 2 former rivals reviving their old feud due to Char turning into some sort of an entitled, impatient old fart out of nowhere for one (anti-)climactic battle with a rather lame ending, all mostly salvaged by the romanticist flourishes and broad strokes of human optimism and such. Taking the film on the final point I'd maybe give it a C+ as well, but at face value, Tomino's worst Gundam anime in my book. Given this though, wish Lauren could see the bigger picture for ZZ and G Reco, but ah well, to each their own.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 7930
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:10 pm Reply with quote
Everybody wants a movie that holds their hand and explains every little detail outright to them like they're small children, which is why there's animosity towards Char's Counterattack and Tomino's directing style in general, because you actually have to consider visual elements in terms of thematic weight. I think it's an excellent movie and a fitting and dramatic climax to the early OYW and aftermath period. Obviously, it's not without its narrative faults, and it does struggle to find itself in terms of what it wants its focus to be on, Amuro vs Char or Quess and Hathaway's tumultuous teen troubles, but it's got a huge scale, palpable tension, great art/animation, and a fantastic musical score that never quits. It's one of my favorite anime films, nevermind Gundam titles.

The complaints of either Amuro or Char being "out of character" show a lack of attention paying by passive viewers of the shows before this movie. You want to know why Char is acting so radically? Char tells it himself in his speech at Sweetwater, his patience has just about run out. There's a key to that in an episode of Zeta Gundam where Char argues that the creation of artificial Newtypes is perhaps understandable. Following from that and the events of Gundam Double Zeta, nothing in CCA is a mystery.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address My Anime My Manga
SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2083
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:16 pm Reply with quote
Zetabag wrote:
The movie gave me the impression

This is just speculation


See, that is my problem. This is a major change in world view since we last saw Char. We should have been shown this transition, but we were barely even told of it. There is more than enough justification there that you can speculate it is this or get the impression it was that, but what specifically pushed him that far isn't known.

Even a big exposition dump explaining in detail how it happened would be a failure, and we didn't even get that much. This is a visual medium, and some massive story driving, main character evolving event like that needs to literally be shown.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 7930
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:24 pm Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:
This is a major change in world view since we last saw Char. We should have been shown this transition, but we were barely even told of it.


It's not a major change in world view at all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address My Anime My Manga
Prince Gotonoke



Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:46 pm Reply with quote
CCA is severely disappointing to me. This should be the grand finale for Amuro and Char, it had the production, it had a grand scale plot it wanted to tell, and then for some reason Quess happened. If they just took out Quess and replaced her screentime with flashbacks for Char covering the time period between Zeta to CCA and showed how he became who he is in the movie, would have been great. This movie could have been the perfect ending for the early UC stuff. Instead for reasons I will never understand, Tomino made the most annoying character ever in gundam and made her central to the plot AND kinda made Char seem like a pedophile, way to go Tomino..... way to go.

I still ended up getting the Blu-ray though l, because the animation and action is pretty kickass. Just a shame it feels like it was wasted in the end result.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group