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Garforian



Joined: 02 Apr 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:19 am Reply with quote
I don't see whats so hard to believe about the concept, japan may have a more formalized set of descriptions for it but there's a criminal element and gang presence in most if not all schools.
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Mr. Oshawott



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:36 am Reply with quote
Where there are bullies in school, gangs are often not too far away from the area.
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Chrno2



Joined: 28 May 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:02 pm Reply with quote
Funny that you did this article considering the last article on Western perceptions of Japan through anime. I actually was going to make a comment to that.

I was always curious about this part of the culture because you see it portrayed a lot in anime and live-action (exploitation) films all through out the 70's going forward. I'm sure the there are still underground gangs. But the one thing you do know for sure is that there is still bullying in Japanese schools. So I'm sure there are some gangs, they just might not be at the level you see in manga, anime and films. I guess it's still part of a subculture. A subculture that you probably don't want to get too close to.

I watch some K-drama with my niece and you see similar things too. Gangs are far in between, but school bullies, cliques have always been a thing. That will never go away.

Actually I was wondering if with the creation of 'Tokyo Tribes' did there exist groups like that?
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Compelled to Reply



Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 102
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:00 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
They'd wave imperial Japanese flags (they tend to be nationalistic), start fights, and generally make a nuisance of themselves.

The flag of Imperial Japan was the same as the current flag. You're talking about the "Kyokujitsu-ki," which was only used for wartime purposes. In fact, a derivative is still used by maritime forces.

Still, I can see it's abused and to piss off certain people, like with Confederate, Nazi, or Soviet flags.


Last edited by Compelled to Reply on Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:06 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Watanabefan



Joined: 02 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:01 pm Reply with quote
Are there any connections between these teens and the youth gangs involved in underground street fighting? Black Market had a really fascinating episode about the rise of organized gangland street fights in Japan, though the guys involved seemed a little older than teenagers.
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Mr. Oshawott



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:19 pm Reply with quote
Compelled to Reply wrote:
The flag of Imperial Japan was the same as the current flag. You're talking about the "Kyokujitsu-ki," which was only used for wartime purposes. In fact, a derivative is still used by maritime forces.

What's the difference between the standard Japanese flag and the Kyokujitsu-ki?
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Jonny Mendes



Joined: 17 Oct 2014
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Location: Europe
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:32 pm Reply with quote
Mr. Oshawott wrote:
Compelled to Reply wrote:
The flag of Imperial Japan was the same as the current flag. You're talking about the "Kyokujitsu-ki," which was only used for wartime purposes. In fact, a derivative is still used by maritime forces.

What's the difference between the standard Japanese flag and the Kyokujitsu-ki?

A good comparison is that Kyokujitsu-ki is like a US Navy "Union Jack" flag and the standard flag of Japan is like the US "Stars and Stripes".

Because of the relation with the use of the Kyokujitsu-ki by the Imperial Japanese Forces in WW2 there are some that don't approve of it, mostly some people in China and Korea. Their reactions is similar to some Americans to the Confederate Battle Flag. In reality even some Americans have strong reactions to the Kyokujitsu-ki because of use on WW2 by the Japanese.

"Kyokujitsu-ki" is also used like as a rebellion symbol against the system by some Japanese gangs.


Last edited by Jonny Mendes on Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lemonchest



Joined: 18 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:57 pm Reply with quote
Speaking of, I'd love it if some of the 90s delinquent anime got (re)licensed & released. What I wouldn't do for you to release Kyou Kara Ore Wa!!, Discotek!
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:16 pm Reply with quote
Mr. Oshawott wrote:
Where there are bullies in school, gangs are often not too far away from the area.


And where you have pressure to conform in school vs. a sense of socially stagnated frustration, you have bullies--It's as prevalent in a small suburb where there's no real industry, as it is in a crumbling section of the inner-city.
Just that with Japan, the pressure to make school your entire life if you want to succeed creates bigger showing-off to the contrary, and a more enforced pecking order of teens who don't want to believe they're on the bottom of it.

Compelled to Reply wrote:
Quote:
They'd wave imperial Japanese flags (they tend to be nationalistic), start fights, and generally make a nuisance of themselves.

The flag of Imperial Japan was the same as the current flag. You're talking about the "Kyokujitsu-ki," which was only used for wartime purposes. In fact, a derivative is still used by maritime forces.

Still, I can see it's abused and to piss off certain people, like with Confederate, Nazi, or Soviet flags.


Yes, that would pretty much be the reason, especially when flown by nuisances who weren't actually alive in 1962, 1941 or 1860, and are just borrowing shock symbols secondhand.
Every country has its one "shame" taboo it shows off to be tough, and doesn't really know except the associated reasons everyone tells you not to. Even British punks just had putting the Union Jack all over everything, since being disrepectful was unpatriotic enough.
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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:26 pm Reply with quote
The weirdest thing about yankii/bosozoku/sukeban culture is that it became a highly successful genre for manga, but when it comes to anime it's only occasionally a focus, and almost exclusively on home video. For example, arguably the two biggest names in yankii manga, the Crows X Worst franchise & Rokudenashi Blues, have received either an OVA (Crows) or anime movie (Rokudenashi) adaptation, but neither has ever seen a TV anime series.

In fact, with JoJo's Bizarre Adventure having now been adapted into (multiple seasons of) TV anime, Rokudenashi Blues is currently the longest-running Shonen Jump manga to have never received a TV anime adaptation, and it's just as long as Dragon Ball was (42 volumes). Granted, next year marks Rokudenashi's 30th Anniversary, so there could be a chance of a TV anime to celebrate, but I'm not exactly holding my breath for that happen.

Really, from what I can tell (so I could be wrong), I think that last "delinquent" manga to really be given the whole TV anime treatment may have been Hareluya II BØY, which happened all the way back in 1997 (& was a super early example of modern-day light night anime). Even then, though, BØY wasn't exactly the same type of delinquent series, as the characters were more dressed more stylish than your stereotypical yankii, & they acted more like the Sekt-dan in Sket Dance or the Yorozuya in Gintama, i.e. helping out those in need. Yeah, I guess you could count Cromartie High School, but that's a gag series under the (purposefully) flimsy guise of a delinquent series.

There are plenty of OVAs based on delinquent manga, but I find it curious that TV has mostly passed the genre by when it comes to anime.
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vanfanel



Joined: 26 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:33 pm Reply with quote
Lemonchest wrote:
Speaking of, I'd love it if some of the 90s delinquent anime got (re)licensed & released. What I wouldn't do for you to release Kyou Kara Ore Wa!!, Discotek!


Same here, but I don't think that's even been released on DVD in Japan. Shame, as it's both hilarious and well-animated. Animeigo did put out the first Shonan Bakusouzoku OVA on VHS, but that must've gone over like a lead balloon, since the other nine never surfaced.

Lord Geo wrote:
There are plenty of OVAs based on delinquent manga, but I find it curious that TV has mostly passed the genre by when it comes to anime.


Well, when it comes to things aimed at juveniles, you can get away with far more in comics than you can on TV. Plenty of parents would not be thrilled to learn that their son is hooked on a series that glorifies delinquency. If it's a manga in Shounen Jump (where Rokudenashi Blues ran) that might fly under the radar, and even if it is detected, the other 18 or so series running in the magazine provide plausible deniability: "I don't even read that one; I get it for Dragonball and Slam Dunk!"

Put the same material on TV in a time slot similar to what other Shounen Jump hits get, though, and the odds of someone coming across it and raising a stink skyrocket. As for the late night option, there may be other issues (no longer as popular, too long, Jump series seldom if ever doing the late-night thing, etc).

BTW, though, Masanori Morita's art is INCREDIBLE. If anyone reading this has never seen his work, do Google up some Rokudenashi Blues or Rookies images.


Last edited by vanfanel on Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BodaciousSpacePirate
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Joined: 17 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:43 pm Reply with quote
Lord Geo wrote:
There are plenty of OVAs based on delinquent manga, but I find it curious that TV has mostly passed the genre by when it comes to anime.


The closest thing in recent memory that I can think of is D-Frag, which was (supposedly) originally planned as a comedic delinquent manga, until the mangaka's editors requested that he change the story's entire focus to the school's moe female students.

Eventually, the manga shifted more towards a "high school full of delinquent gangs who are all terrified of the cast of a cute-girls-doing-cute-things manga" concept, and it was probably the cute-girls-doing-cute-things genre aspects - rather than delinquent genre aspects - that led to the manga getting an anime adaptation (especially since the manga is way more delinquent-focused than the anime version ended up being).

...that being said, I wonder how much the recent glut of "gal" anime has been fulfilling the need for shows about troublemaking students?
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Lemonchest



Joined: 18 Mar 2015
Posts: 1459
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:34 pm Reply with quote
Tbh I think the recent "gal" anime have such a neutered depiction of gal/ganguro characters that they're really more aimed at men who think gals are hot (& easy) rather than what's left of the subculture. Indeed the current thing seems more about using "gals" as a lazy/easy way to do a don't judge a book by its neckline setup.

In a similar vein, as much as I like delinquent anime, I think they too were generally aimed at an audience other than the delinquents themselves, who were probably more into ultraviolent OVAs & V-Cinema films than school fun times but with loveable troublemakers. That late night TV anime didn't really kick off till the delinquent manga were pretty much done as a genre maybe explains why it never got further than OVAs, since I doubt any TV network would put their necks out for something aimed at kids - not least because the 90s saw a wave of moral panic due to supposedly rising crime rates.
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Heishi



Joined: 06 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:13 pm Reply with quote
BodaciousSpacePirate wrote:
Lord Geo wrote:
There are plenty of OVAs based on delinquent manga, but I find it curious that TV has mostly passed the genre by when it comes to anime.


The closest thing in recent memory that I can think of is D-Frag, which was (supposedly) originally planned as a comedic delinquent manga, until the mangaka's editors requested that he change the story's entire focus to the school's moe female students.

Eventually, the manga shifted more towards a "high school full of delinquent gangs who are all terrified of the cast of a cute-girls-doing-cute-things manga" concept, and it was probably the cute-girls-doing-cute-things genre aspects - rather than delinquent genre aspects - that led to the manga getting an anime adaptation (especially since the manga is way more delinquent-focused than the anime version ended up being).

...that being said, I wonder how much the recent glut of "gal" anime has been fulfilling the need for shows about troublemaking students?


Funny you bring "cute girls doing cute things" and "delinquent gangs" in the same sentence, because I developed an idea of a show revolving around "cute girls doing...not so cute things" and its tone is the complete opposite of the overly cheerful shows that you regularly see like Yuru Yuri, K-on, or Strawberry Marshmallow.
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svines85



Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Posts: 34
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:29 am Reply with quote
Very interesting stuff, a great article, thanks a lot Smile
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