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This Week in Anime - Just How Insane is Devilman Crybaby?


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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 2425
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:25 pm Reply with quote
I just wish they would remove the rapping, it is even more painful in Japanese.
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klv



Joined: 08 Feb 2017
Posts: 69
Location: Ba Sing Se
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:32 pm Reply with quote
I must absolutely watch this. I am going to visit my parents down south for a week today, and I don't know how I'm going to make it happen, but it is definitely going to. Probably on an iPhone, which a bit sucks.
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kaorv



Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 21
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:49 pm Reply with quote
As someone with no experience with the manga, I absolutely loved the ending. What exactly was different about it? Just the romance angle?
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Chiyosuke



Joined: 06 Oct 2003
Posts: 267
Location: Nashville, TN (I was Kurious)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:50 pm Reply with quote
Oh hell yea, I gotta check this out... Just reading this took me back to the good ol' days. Brb...
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lossthief



Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 405
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:08 pm Reply with quote
kaorv wrote:
As someone with no experience with the manga, I absolutely loved the ending. What exactly was different about it? Just the romance angle?


It's not a huge change in content, but spoiler[the contents of Ryo's speech to Akira has some subtle but important differences. Ryo mostly just ponders how it's ironic that he tried to expel humanity the same way God expelled him all those eons ago. The crying inparticular is added to cap off the "Crybaby" throughline too. Mostly it's just a bit of a change in tone that makes the incoming apocalypse just a little more intimate than the manga.]

The romance angle is actually 100% congruent with the original though Anime hyper.
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G S Palmer



Joined: 02 Oct 2015
Posts: 108
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:15 pm Reply with quote
God, this show left me a wreck. I binged it all in one night (well, morning) and after they killed off Miki, I almost quit and went to bed. But I watched it all the way through, and I must agree, it's a fantastic anime. Now I need to go watch some uplifting shows like Mitsuboshi Colors. Crying or Very sad
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hinugundam



Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 52
Location: USA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:18 pm Reply with quote
I have seen lots of people either gushing about this show or commenting on how “shockingly graphic” it is. I must be in the minority as I felt overall the show was “meh”. The first episode, the fight with spoiler[Silene] and the last couple of episodes were excellent, but much of the series I found boring.
As far as content, while it definitely had some explicit sexual content for an anime, I did not find the violence to be that over the top, but maybe that is just because of the stuff I read and watch. I can see that this is a series people are going to be talking about for some time, and it’s great to see that Netflix seems to have found some success with anime.
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Spawn29



Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 340
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:35 pm Reply with quote
I feel like the show is not as graphic as most stuff out there. You have 70's and 80's horror movies like Hellraiser, Videodrome, The Thing, Scanners, Evil Dead and I Spit on Your Grave that are just as violent and disturbing as Devilman. And people consider them to be great classics.

I think if you handle Gantz and Berserk, Devilman should be okay for you. It's nowhere on the same level as stuff like Legend of the Overfiend.
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Brand



Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 967
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:43 pm Reply with quote
I watched it with two friends on Friday. Both of whom probably would have never watched it without me but both ended up liking it. Though they both said Masaaki Yuasa's directing is what made it interesting for them.
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Niello



Joined: 22 Dec 2013
Posts: 243
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:10 pm Reply with quote
Yuasa directing sure doesn't disappoint. My main complaints are with the rewriting. There are many parts that don't make much sense at all when you give it some thought. It's great when you don't think too much about the story and focus on the characters' emotions. The last few episodes are superb in that respect.
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ChilledMatter



Joined: 09 Jan 2018
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:09 pm Reply with quote
kaorv wrote:
As someone with no experience with the manga, I absolutely loved the ending. What exactly was different about it? Just the romance angle?

Original manga does a better job at explaining Ryo's actions as he apologises in the end, and also gets the message across well, it being that of anti-war and anti-xenophobia. Did you get any of that here? Of course NOT because Crybaby was a shit adaptation that missed the point.

When I read that Yuasa had trouble understanding the ending, I knew the guy was a literal brainlet who didn't understand shit.

Devilman, the manga is good, this adaptation is cheesy shit.
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jroa



Joined: 08 Aug 2012
Posts: 377
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:21 pm Reply with quote
Niello wrote:
Yuasa directing sure doesn't disappoint. My main complaints are with the rewriting. There are many parts that don't make much sense at all when you give it some thought. It's great when you don't think too much about the story and focus on the characters' emotions. The last few episodes are superb in that respect.


I'd tend to disagree. I've rewatched several episodes and thought about the story over the last couple of days. In my opinion, the story of Crybaby makes about as much sense as the original manga framework did. The pacing might be an issue, perhaps, yet the contents still connect pretty well. I'd also remind you that Devilman started as a surprisingly lighthearted manga, even including many comedic gags, and only later turned into an apocalyptic scenario. So that contrast was taken from the source.

ChilledMatter wrote:

Original manga does a better job at explaining Ryo's actions as he apologises in the end, and also gets the message across well, it being that of anti-war and anti-xenophobia. Did you get any of that here? Of course NOT because Crybaby was a shit adaptation that missed the point.


Actually, I'd argue Crybaby is still quite anti-war and against the discrimination of those who are different from us. Such a message was not removed by the anime at all and is prevalent in this adaptation, even if some of the specific panels and phrases were not included. I think it's made explicit and implicit in both the new content and throughout the sequences taken straight from the original, so your complaint seems quite exaggerated to me.

You do have a point in terms of how the manga explained Ryo's actions a little better in the final pages of the story, but for me it's a valid creative choice made by Yuasa. The anime simply places far more of an emphasis on the emotions, which is what Yuasa was interested in highlighting as a creator, rather than making sure we get every single bit of the information regarding what Ryo wanted to accomplish in his fight against the heavens.

Which wasn't a bad thing in the original manga, by all means, but I don't feel it was necessary for this anime. The irony of Ryo's actions on multiple levels still comes across and having him cry at Akira's dead body feels more emotionally resonant to me than just closing his eyes in sorrow like in the manga. That was a valid expression of sadness, to be sure, yet not enough to transmit emotions with the power that Yuasa wanted.
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ChilledMatter



Joined: 09 Jan 2018
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:27 pm Reply with quote
jroa wrote:

Actually, I'd argue Crybaby is still quite anti-war and against the discrimination of those who are different from us. Such a message was not removed by the anime at all and is prevalent in this adaptation, even if some of the specific panels and phrases were not included. I think it's made explicit and implicit in both the new content and throughout the sequences taken straight from the original, so your complaint seems quite exaggerated to me.

Oh it was, but it was subdued. You didn't really feel the terror and horror like in the original. There was no calling for the extermination of jews, arabs, immigrants, blacks etc. Just saying discrimination is bad is nothing. The manga really showed you an example of paranoia and fear leading to the illogical course of actions. The anime had that dumb blogging moment where trolls are supposed to be angry at demons enough to leave their house. Like really? This sounds like a white supremacist /pol/ fantasy. Most of them are too busy reposting rare pepes.
jroa wrote:

You do have a point in terms of how the manga explained Ryo's actions a little better in the final pages of the story, but for me it's a valid creative choice made by Yuasa. The anime simply places far more of an emphasis on the emotions, which is what Yuasa was interested in highlighting as a creator, rather than making sure we get every single bit of the information regarding what Ryo wanted to accomplish in his fight against the heavens.

Which wasn't a bad thing in the original manga, by all means, but I don't feel it was necessary for this anime. The irony of Ryo's actions on multiple levels still comes across and having him cry at Akira's dead body feels more emotionally resonant to me than just closing his eyes in sorrow like in the manga. That was a valid expression of sadness, to be sure, yet not enough to transmit emotions with the power that Yuasa wanted.

The problem with placing that much on emotions means we don't get the Devilman story and that sucks. Second, Ryo crying out for Akira made it worse because we were never led to believe at least once that Ryo was even sorry for what he did to humanity. All he learnt about was emotions, like an autistic child, being just a little less autistic after his dog died.
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jroa



Joined: 08 Aug 2012
Posts: 377
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:42 pm Reply with quote
ChilledMatter wrote:
Oh it was, but it was subdued. You didn't really feel the terror and horror like in the original. There was no calling for the extermination of jews, arabs, immigrants, blacks etc. Just saying discrimination is bad is nothing. The manga really showed you an example of paranoia and fear leading to the illogical course of actions. The anime had that dumb blogging moment where trolls are supposed to be angry at demons enough to leave their house. Like really? This sounds like a white supremacist /pol/ fantasy. Most of them are too busy reposting rare pepes.


I think we still saw enough identifiable examples of that behavior, even if they weren't specifically called out in terms of races, social classes or religions. For me, the blogging would have seemed very silly back in 2010 or 2005, but...in the year 2018, I believe it's finally becoming more realistic due to the increased reach and relevance of social media in the lives of regular people from all across the planet.

Considering it was the end of the world, so to speak, I believe many people would be willing to leave their houses since their own lives were in danger, either from the actual demons, the military/police or as a direct result of how the people who believed Ryo's words readily adopted patterns of mass violence and lynching fueled by the paranoia.

Quote:

The problem with placing that much on emotions means we don't get the Devilman story and that sucks. Second, Ryo crying out for Akira made it worse because we were never led to believe at least once that Ryo was even sorry for what he did to humanity. All he learnt about was emotions, like an autistic child, being just a little less autistic after his dog died.


I believe this is still the core Devilman story though, except viewed through a different set of lens since obviously Yuasa is not trying to think exactly like you, me or Go Nagai. I'd say Ryo's sadness and regret about Akira's death as an emotional realization can be connected, by implication, to his numerous mistakes. In this version, it's precisely the fact of having so much emotional distance that kept him from embracing his feelings and acting on his love towards Akira and, perhaps, also what distanced him from the rest of humanity. It is not literally described to us in the dialogue, but I feel it's not impossible to connect the dots by extension.
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Hershey's



Joined: 06 Dec 2017
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:43 pm Reply with quote
jroa wrote:

Actually, I'd argue Crybaby is still quite anti-war and against the discrimination of those who are different from us. Such a message was not removed by the anime at all and is prevalent in this adaptation, even if some of the specific panels and phrases were not included. I think it's made explicit and implicit in both the new content and throughout the sequences taken straight from the original, so your complaint seems quite exaggerated to me.

If it was then it was very much subdued for the emotional aspect for the cast considering how Crybaby glosses over the anti-war aspect entirely which was prevalent in the final volume of the manga.
jroa wrote:

You do have a point in terms of how the manga explained Ryo's actions a little better in the final pages of the story, but for me it's a valid creative choice made by Yuasa. The anime simply places far more of an emphasis on the emotions, which is what Yuasa was interested in highlighting as a creator, rather than making sure we get every single bit of the information regarding what Ryo wanted to accomplish in his fight against the heavens.

Ryo's characterization is the biggest fault in this adaptation because there's really no reason to care about his plight at all by the end since Yuasa decided to make him an emotionally stilted sociopath to beat you over the head with the "crybaby" metaphor they go over with repeatedly throughout all 10 episodes. While manga Ryo was unhinged he had motivations beyond Akira and his character progression and eventual revelation that he is Satan was much better handled which cultivates into his realization that he was a huge hypocrite and caused the damnation to humans much like God did to demons, in Crybaby...he just learns how to feel and that's it yet, he doesn't realize his own hypocrisy because the demons aren't given nearly as much characterization in Crybaby in comparison to the manga and there's no reason to care since he spent about 9 episodes being an irredeemable piece of shit throughout infact all Crybaby does is prove God right in which the manga was more so gray in that area so him losing the one person he cared about in existence is less of a touching moment and more like "karma's a bitch".

Despite it all I thought this was a very good adaptation of the manga and it actually went about improving some elements from the manga that were too dated or silly to connect to modern audiences (Miki's characterization is the best that its ever been throughout all incarnations of the franchise) even if it meant they had to drop some of the more interesting aspects of it including Ryo's own development.
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