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The Best and Worst of the Season So Far: Week of Feb 12-18 [2018-02-23]


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StarFan13



Joined: 06 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:06 pm Reply with quote
Good for Clear Card This Time
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Key
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:28 pm Reply with quote
Hmmm, I'm current following five of the bottom seven and only two of the top seven this season. Guess I'm going for entertainment value rather than quality this season.
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Niello



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:34 pm Reply with quote
Glad to see How to Keep a mummy stay fair in the ranking. Such an underrated and under-watched show. Without a doubt, the hidden gem of the season.
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angelmcazares
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:59 pm Reply with quote
^ I wonder how under-watched and hidden it is when it is in the top 10 of Crunchyroll's most popular shows.

http://www.crunchyroll.com/videos/anime
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Niello



Joined: 22 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:09 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
Niello wrote:
Glad to see How to Keep a mummy stay fair in the ranking. Such an underrated and under-watched show. Without a doubt, the hidden gem of the season.

I wonder how under-watched and hidden it is when it is in the top 10 of Crunchyroll's most popular shows.

http://www.crunchyroll.com/videos/anime


Sure, and you're telling me just because Darling in the FranXX is below How to Keep a Mummy in the Crunchyroll popularity page means it's not more popular. Have you considered that maybe people are watching different things in non English speaking countries? or that licensing means that some shows aren't available in some areas? or that you probably should exclude a bunch of sequels, which still make it not that impressive?
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angelmcazares
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:40 pm Reply with quote
@Niello,

While it is true that Darling in the Franxx is my favorite show of this season, I am not upset or disheartened if it is not the most popular thing. My original post is not informed by my fandom for DitF.
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Niello



Joined: 22 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:47 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
@Niello,

While it is true that Darling in the Franxx is my favorite show of this season, I am not upset or disheartened if it is not the most popular thing. My original post is not informed by my fandom for DitF.


I think you're missing my point. It should be obvious that DitF is one of the most popular show this season within the English speaking community. The Crunchyroll list is influenced by views from outside the community, and therefore not a very good approximation of popularity in this context. Think how Ramen Daisuki Koizumi-san is popular in Japan, but clearly isn't popular here.
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Crext



Joined: 04 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:05 pm Reply with quote
I've slowly tried to get through most of the shows this season.

There was plenty of shows this time around that I actually came to enjoy which I didn't think I'd enjoy, with the most noticeable ones being Violet Evergarden, After the Rain, Laid-Back Camp and A Place Further Than Far Away (silly using universe in the translation here I feel). Maybe I'm getting old or something, haha.

Other than that I've found Darling itF, Record of GW and actually Death March (It is SUCH a Sword Art clone) among the new shows entertaining. Continuations are Ancient Magus bride and Overlord.

Märchen Mädchen is ok.

Pop Team Epic is the worst trash/non-effort in animation/budget piece I've seen in ages, there are far superior shows like it on youtube.

I need to watch Mitsuboshi Colors, as it seems to be something people like, and people have mostly "been right" according to my tastes this time around.
I should also get around to watch Cardcaptor Sakura: Clear Card and Beatless.

The rest don't interest me.

Shows that I also like this season that doesn't show up here are Ryuuou no Oshigoto! and Fate/Extra Last Encore (Nero is just such a funny and adorable character!)

I hope they don't continue rating shows next season that has had 24+ episodes / 2 seasons, or at the very least 50+ episodes. It serves no purpose, and only disrupt the rankings.
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zrnzle500
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:24 pm Reply with quote
^You're free to dislike Pop Team Epic, but I will have to disagree that it is non-effort in animation and budget. Certainly some segments are not aesthetically pleasing, but that has more to do with the style of the studio or individual creators of each segment rather than budget or effort. There isn't any effort to make the each of the segments consistent but they are letting them do whatever they want by design, and frankly I think that is one of the good points about the show. Personally, I think the show making an idol anime OP that is better than that of most actual idol anime belies any claims of low effort.

For budget, even putting aside the visual portion of the show, it is very much not a low budget show. Getting two new sets of voice actors and actresses every episode to play the two main parts isn't cheap, especially considering all the big names they got. They also had an unusually large amount of background music made for the show. Per this interview with the producer, 50 tracks is considered a lot for a 30 minute anime with 12 episodes. Pop Team Epic has had over 100 pieces made for it.

Again, you're free not to like it, but the show's shitpostiness belies the amount of effort that is going into the show, on multiple levels.

As for not rating long running series, I believe you are mistaken on two key points: 1) The following of a show becoming more concentrated with fans of the show affects not just long running shows but also new shows, to one degree or another. I'd rather not look like I'm picking on some shows, but there are a number that would not be ranked where they are if everyone who watched the first episode continued watching it. But I don't even see for shows to be held to such a standard. Doing so seems more like an effort to dismiss the opinion of fans of a show rather than a fair accounting of the show's quality.

2) Many long running shows appear in the bottom half of the rankings all the time. Boruto at almost 50 episodes is ranked 21st and has generally been around there each season. One Piece, which is by far the longest running show that is being reviewed on this site is a few spaces up at 18. Black Clover may not be two cours yet, but I doubt it will move much from its place in subsequent seasons, barring a dramatic increase in quality. Boruto's predecessor, Shippuden, actually took last place in the rankings two seasons in a row, and even after it recovered, it was usually in the bottom half and regarded by some as the line between the wheat and the chaff in the rankings. Individual episodes of One Piece have hit rock bottom as well.

I fail to see how the purpose of their inclusion is any different than for new shows i.e. to see how they stack up against shows that are airing at the same time. Really, this crusade seems more about your disagreement with Gintama's rank than anything else. You are free to dislike the show and disagree with its ranking, but that doesn't mean that the rankings are incorrect.
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Crext



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:13 pm Reply with quote
zrnzle500 wrote:

As for not rating long running series, I believe you are mistaken on two key points: 1) The following of a show becoming more concentrated with fans of the show affects not just long running shows but also new shows, to one degree or another. I'd rather not look like I'm picking on some shows, but there are a number that would not be ranked where they are if everyone who watched the first episode continued watching it. But I don't even see for shows to be held to such a standard. Doing so seems more like an effort to dismiss the opinion of fans of a show rather than a fair accounting of the show's quality.

2) Many long running shows appear in the bottom half of the rankings all the time. Boruto at almost 50 episodes is ranked 21st and has generally been around there each season. One Piece, which is by far the longest running show that is being reviewed on this site is a few spaces up at 18. Black Clover may not be two cours yet, but I doubt it will move much from its place in subsequent seasons, barring a dramatic increase in quality. Boruto's predecessor, Shippuden, actually took last place in the rankings two seasons in a row, and even after it recovered, it was usually in the bottom half and regarded by some as the line between the wheat and the chaff in the rankings. Individual episodes of One Piece have hit rock bottom as well.

I fail to see how the purpose of their inclusion is any different than for new shows i.e. to see how they stack up against shows that are airing at the same time. Really, this crusade seems more about your disagreement with Gintama's rank than anything else. You are free to dislike the show and disagree with its ranking, but that doesn't mean that the rankings are incorrect.


1) Your grammar broke a bit up, so I don't really know if I understand you completely, but as things stand right now 3 of the top 4 shows are long running shows. Everybody, including hardcore Dragon Ball fans, have admitted to the newer series being a downgrade of the earlier versions in regards to quality, be it animation, art, most elements, yet they still watch it anyway, and fans will of course rate a show greater than it would be viewed in the eyes of others. To boil it down to brand power is not an entirely inaccurate viewpoint of the scenario. To claim that is a fair representation of quality (and simply meant to dismiss fans of any particular show) is something I would argue against, as this is one of the more common statistical errors you can make. That is even without taking into account any potential tribalism that also may occur, where fans of a series will always attempt at drafting more fans, and impacting information like this could be a hopeful way to do that.

2) This actually strengthen the argumentation of removal in my view? Some shows are notorious and suffer the other (negative) side of this tribalism. They are in short popular to hate, and we see this happening all the time. That actually is just another reason to take long running series off a comparison list with the fresh animes. I'd assume that there are not a bunch of masochists that watch Buruto on the 50th episode and dislike every episode comparative to every other anime of the season. The logic here should perhaps be enough to convince us that a large part, if not even the the majority of the votes, are "dislike the type of show votes" meant to push the show down rather than people actually watching it rating it fairly. If "everyone" felt that Buruto, Sword Art, Naruto Shippuden (or any other show that gets "branded") are worse comparative to everything else, then those shows would not warrant enough popularity to become long running series. Then those series would seize to exist as everyone would much rather watch all the other animes of the season, including the new ones. Yet Naruto is still kicking, and Sword Art will soon go into its 6th(?) ark.

3) I never mentioned Gintama, so you must be quoting my comment from last week. I got no agenda against it in particular. Last week I simply stated that I had done the grunt work of watching 5 of the newer episodes of that show, and my conclusion is that it doesn't hold up against some of the newer and more brilliant entries of this season. I would even argue that this is objectively speaking, where any critic that attempts to remain somewhat balanced towards it would agree. I got nothing against that show's following, nor do I got anything against the following of other shows like Buruto, One Piece, Any show that fall into my 24 episode+ or 2 seasons+ category (or at the very least 50+ episode criteria). Even if there are shows that I like and adore beyond anything else (say No Game No Life, Eromanga Sensei, Food Wars, Steins;Gate, Rurouni Kenshin, Attack on Titan, Fate(Hmpf), Evangelion, etc.) that would go into their 3rd season, then my opinion of them not being included on equal grounds as the freshmen series would remain the same.
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zrnzle500
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:59 pm Reply with quote
^You did miss my first point, so I’ll make it more clear. For both long running and new shows, after the first few episodes, the people who are still watching will largely be fans of the show, so singling out long running shows is mistaken at best.

As for DBS, while the first few arcs were not great, the current arc is much more well regarded in quality in art, animation and otherwise, though it is not perfect. I’d say it deserves to be in the top half of the rankings.

As for Boruto and Black Clover, while the latter does have its anti fans and both are closer to the bottom, their actual ratings are fairly decent. Boruto has been pretty consistently around 4 out of 5 stars, and while Black Clover has been weaker, it has gotten around 4 out of 5 as well recently. One Piece can be a bit more variable but it is usually in the 4 range as well. All are also in line with the ratings from their reviewers. Just because something is in the bottom half doesn’t mean it is hated. If anything, the ones voted in by hate watchers are new shows, not long running ones.

As for your opinion on Gintama, you are free to feel that way, but your opinion is just that, an opinion. It is no more objective than anyone else.
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relyat08



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:51 pm Reply with quote
Niello wrote:
angelmcazares wrote:
Niello wrote:
Glad to see How to Keep a mummy stay fair in the ranking. Such an underrated and under-watched show. Without a doubt, the hidden gem of the season.

I wonder how under-watched and hidden it is when it is in the top 10 of Crunchyroll's most popular shows.

http://www.crunchyroll.com/videos/anime


Sure, and you're telling me just because Darling in the FranXX is below How to Keep a Mummy in the Crunchyroll popularity page means it's not more popular. Have you considered that maybe people are watching different things in non English speaking countries? or that licensing means that some shows aren't available in some areas? or that you probably should exclude a bunch of sequels, which still make it not that impressive?


What does the language of the viewers have to do with anything? I'm genuinely confused on this entire discussion. CR's numbers are NUMBERS. They don't handicap stuff based on specific criteria, like which regions they are available in. Confused
This ranking is purely how many people are watching a given show at whatever point the statistics were last updated. It doesn't matter where they are in the world, what language they are watching in, or anything else.
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kotomikun



Joined: 06 May 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:16 am Reply with quote
Crext wrote:
A Place Further Than Far Away (silly using universe in the translation here I feel).


That just sounds redundant, though; or like a weird way to say "a place far, far away." It looks like the original title is "uchuu yori mo toui basho" which Google translates as "a place far from the universe." But it also has some sort of alternate title, "sora yori mo toui basho" which would be "a place far from the sky" or, following the original English title, "a place further than the sky." Either one of those would make more sense than "universe." Or they could go with "cosmos" or "stars" which don't make literal sense but at least avoid the weirdness of saying the universe is far away.
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leeoflittlefaith



Joined: 08 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:26 am Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:
Crext wrote:
A Place Further Than Far Away (silly using universe in the translation here I feel).


That just sounds redundant, though; or like a weird way to say "a place far, far away." It looks like the original title is "uchuu yori mo toui basho" which Google translates as "a place far from the universe." But it also has some sort of alternate title, "sora yori mo toui basho" which would be "a place far from the sky" or, following the original English title, "a place further than the sky." Either one of those would make more sense than "universe." Or they could go with "cosmos" or "stars" which don't make literal sense but at least avoid the weirdness of saying the universe is far away.


The title includes the kanji for the word 'uchuu' meaning 'universe' or 'cosmos'. (宇宙)
However, it is annotated with the furigana 'sora' (そら), which means 'sky', 'heavens' or 'far-off-place'.

I don't think it's much of a stretch, especially considering the lack of articles in Japanese (it's not literally 'the' universe because 'the' is not a thing in Japanese), to say that the 'universe' in the title is one's personal universe. Like, going beyond one's limits, going farther and further than what's expected of you. Y'know, the whole theme of the show.
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Crext



Joined: 04 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:26 am Reply with quote
zrnzle500 wrote:
^You did miss my first point, so I’ll make it more clear. For both long running and new shows, after the first few episodes, the people who are still watching will largely be fans of the show, so singling out long running shows is mistaken at best.

As for DBS, while the first few arcs were not great, the current arc is much more well regarded in quality in art, animation and otherwise, though it is not perfect. I’d say it deserves to be in the top half of the rankings.

As for Boruto and Black Clover, while the latter does have its anti fans and both are closer to the bottom, their actual ratings are fairly decent. Boruto has been pretty consistently around 4 out of 5 stars, and while Black Clover has been weaker, it has gotten around 4 out of 5 as well recently. One Piece can be a bit more variable but it is usually in the 4 range as well. All are also in line with the ratings from their reviewers. Just because something is in the bottom half doesn’t mean it is hated. If anything, the ones voted in by hate watchers are new shows, not long running ones.

As for your opinion on Gintama, you are free to feel that way, but your opinion is just that, an opinion. It is no more objective than anyone else.


Well, I'd argue that one doesn't become a "fan" after a few episodes, but you might drop it after 3-4 episodes for sure. That too gives a uncertainty in random selection I would agree, but there's a much higher chance someone will "stick with it" for 12 episodes if they found it somewhat interesting, in contrast to 24/50 episodes which I'd argue is not going to happen. Regardless those new shows would then compete on equal grounds as every other anime that started that same season, and the Schulze method would then sort them out to a larger degree. This is less likely for the long running shows, which I have already given forth the argumentation for, so I won't go into it again.

Regarding your last comment, and jumping straight to it being a personal opinion, I'd argue you missed the point so I'll elaborate. This has nothing to do with Gintama. I am simply having a discussion regarding the accuracy and fairness of the current selection in regards to the statistical relevance from the current method they use. It'd argue it contaminates the overall selection, and that there might be a good idea to look it over once more. There are many potential solutions, it doesn't have to be removal. One could for instance add a separate graph in addition to those already presented, where the third graph also includes "shows not starting on 1" (sequels). In other words then the cumulative ranking get fixed, and we get less "noise" in comparative data on the standard ranking, and the final ranking adds how long running shows stack up. If these things are drawn automatically each week, then it shouldn't be too much work. Of course there are other methods too, but I'll fill out my "too much, didn't read" quota if I went into all of them, so I did perhaps point forward the easiest one at first to a too large degree as the solution.

Also, at the end of the day it doesn't really matter that much to me personally of course, I just dislike seeing things not being done optimal where minor adjustments can improve it, where I feel the inclusion of long running shows to add little value because everyone who watches them knows exactly what they are and why they watch them. On the other side it might also be what makes people interested in participating in the pools to begin with where maybe they only do watch a few shows. And that would be an argument for keeping it as is. The end goal could after all be to simply have an enjoyable community activity together, and it's not like any inaccuracies in these data, big or small, will change much in regards to that.

leeoflittlefaith wrote:
kotomikun wrote:
Crext wrote:
A Place Further Than Far Away (silly using universe in the translation here I feel).


That just sounds redundant, though; or like a weird way to say "a place far, far away." It looks like the original title is "uchuu yori mo toui basho" which Google translates as "a place far from the universe." But it also has some sort of alternate title, "sora yori mo toui basho" which would be "a place far from the sky" or, following the original English title, "a place further than the sky." Either one of those would make more sense than "universe." Or they could go with "cosmos" or "stars" which don't make literal sense but at least avoid the weirdness of saying the universe is far away.


The title includes the kanji for the word 'uchuu' meaning 'universe' or 'cosmos'. (宇宙)
However, it is annotated with the furigana 'sora' (そら), which means 'sky', 'heavens' or 'far-off-place'.

I don't think it's much of a stretch, especially considering the lack of articles in Japanese (it's not literally 'the' universe because 'the' is not a thing in Japanese), to say that the 'universe' in the title is one's personal universe. Like, going beyond one's limits, going farther and further than what's expected of you. Y'know, the whole theme of the show.


I see, I only knew about the sora translation, so your argumentation sounds sound. In my view, considering they went to the Antarctic, it would qualify as a "going to a place beyond far away". However, looking on it as a personal universe or "your personal view of the world" I can see where they are coming from. My initial impressions was that they made it sound like they were going on some adventure to a different galaxy or something, haha. It's one of the more challenging translations for sure, so I'll withdraw my comment about it being misleading as there isn't really any 1:1 translation on that one.
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