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How True Is the Trickle Down Effect in Anime?




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Olliff



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 550
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:43 am Reply with quote
Interesting article. This is very similar to the Western companies where the biggest benefit to budget goes to full time employees and managers first. It sounds like there are many other issues, but it is difficult for contractors to benefit in the short term unless there becomes a shortage of them. Many of these contractors are for skills that people do for passion and there is plenty of people who want to do it regardless of demand or the market rate. However, it also sounds that many contractors get highly variable rates. Reform may be needed, but I don't know all the details. It is just a shame that animators can get paid way more in the West, and both are very capable.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4501
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:58 am Reply with quote
Yeah, trickle down doesn't work since it would mean that everybody along the chain would have to be willing to give more so that there is more left for those at the end. Disney isn't simply going to pay more just because it can, and if it does pay substantially more than normal, it's going to expect a comparable product meaning a higher likelihood for redone work, for example.
Like the article references, in situations where Netflix has paid substantially more than average, that increased budget went towards paying old bills. While I don't excuse the poor management that led to so many studios being in a situation where this season's series pays for last season's expenses, I also can't say I'm at all surprised that a studio is going to decide that to use the money that way, instead of paying animators more.

Trickle down is an idea that basically assumes that there will be altruism in a system designed to encourage people to look out for themselves first, so it's no wonder that increased budgets and acquisition costs haven't produced much change.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5424
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:49 am Reply with quote
Trickle Down! That's Reaganomics isn't it or is the name just a coincidence?
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Olliff



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 550
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:55 am Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
Trickle Down! That's Reaganomics isn't it or is the name just a coincidence?


Due to this connotation, this titling already paints the tone and that the answer is no or at least to no for most people. If you dig deeper into the article, some people are benefiting, but it is often not the animators who are often contractors, but even this is not an universal answer.

At least in the US, trickle down really only has any benefit for the top 20% of earners in the long term, which is clearly not animators or pretty much any creative based contractors for the most part. In the short term, it can help people at the bottom if causes the demand and supply to tilt towards the employee, especially if the employee market is tight. However, in this case it appears even that varies a lot from studio to studio.


Last edited by Olliff on Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Minos_Kurumada



Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 1114
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:56 am Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
Trickle Down! That's Reaganomics isn't it or is the name just a coincidence?


"Trickle Down" economics actually don't exist, it's an strawman made by some comedian making fun of Reagan's tax cuts, so, it's not a coincidence.

No serious economist use the term.

Tax cuts are more complicated than just "Lower them to improve economy" or "Rise them to help the poor", there is an equilibrium were if you tax too much you destroy the economy and if you tax too little the government becomes unviable, you need to find the sweet spot.

This is what the know as the Laffer Curve.
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Cutiebunny



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 1755
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:28 pm Reply with quote
The belief that trickle down economics will work relies on those on top having a sense of compassion and putting that ahead of both the company’s and their personal income. This rarely, if ever, happens. What happens is what any thinking person would expect - those on top get richer while conditions remain largely unchanged by those on the bottom.

When Netflix started getting into the anime industry and people were hopeful that they’d improve things, I laughed. I knew that Netflix, being the corporation that it is, would demand the same low frame rates (if not lower) due to the amount of money they could invest. The guaranteed gravy train from Netflix to any animation studio would be valued over the needs of its workers. I expect Disney does the exact same thing.

I’ve been a Patreon and crowdfunding backer for Animator Supporters for years, and have met Jun and the animators that tag along with him to Animazement. Definitely a worthwhile way to give back to the people who create anime, even if you can’t afford to give that much. I like that Patreon has become a way to support artists now by giving them a direct payment instead of hoping they’ll get a few yen from buying whatever manga ir anime they worked on.
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DRosencraft



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 667
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:23 pm Reply with quote
This article basically gets to the point I've made for years now every time this topic of pay for animators comes up - because the artists are individual freelancers who each must negotiate their own contracts, and tend to either not want to or are otherwise poorly adept at it, they are always disadvantaged. While legislating a minimum wage would be a helpful option, it doesn't solve the overall problem the system crates, which is partly a cultural issue.
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Cimarosa



Joined: 14 Apr 2020
Posts: 31
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:35 pm Reply with quote
How to increase rates 101

Step 1: Go on strike to assert collective bargaining power
Step 2: Productions across Tokyo collapse
Step 3: Massive panic ensues as the big corps fear tens of billions of dollars will be potentially lost
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit!
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StarfighterPegasus



Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 149
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:34 pm Reply with quote
Minos_Kurumada wrote:
MarshalBanana wrote:
Trickle Down! That's Reaganomics isn't it or is the name just a coincidence?


"Trickle Down" economics actually don't exist, it's an strawman made by some comedian making fun of Reagan's tax cuts, so, it's not a coincidence.

No serious economist use the term.

Tax cuts are more complicated than just "Lower them to improve economy" or "Rise them to help the poor", there is an equilibrium were if you tax too much you destroy the economy and if you tax too little the government becomes unviable, you need to find the sweet spot.

This is what the know as the Laffer Curve.
Laffer Curve has been discredited. Its the belief that states with no income or estate tax would out preform states that had them. Many economists have dismissed the Laffer Curve.
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