Forum - View topicShelf Life - Angels, Devils, and Goddesses
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Mirrinus
 Posts: 230 Location: La Thiene Plateau |
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I agree a lot with Furudanuki's sentiment. I still haven't bothered to check out Rumbling Hearts, but seeing that sort of thing really raises my respect for the reviewer. Plus, I really like the name "Bamboo" for some reason. ^_^ Honestly...I'd have to agree with the statement that the latter A!MG would be fairly boring, or at least confusing, if one is not familiar with the characters and premise. From what I percieve, romantic comedies are largely character-driven, so not being familiar with the characters will likely hurt one's enjoyment of the series. And seriously now, from what I've seen Bamboo is probably one of the least biased reviewers I've read here on ANN... |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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I don't know if Zac has read the AMG manga , but if he had, he should realise that none of the goddesses are as perfect as he believes they are. Bell is like that because that is her choice to be so. Apart from that contract between them, K1 has no control over her at all, and nor does he wish for it. Bell isn't a Stepford wife by any means. Being devoted to the one you love doesn't necessarily mean you become just a slave to their every beck and call without dissention. 
If anyone has followed this from the beginning they should also remember that Bell can read Keichi's mind and hear his thoughts. That is why she was so trusting of him when she caught him with that girl in that embarassing position. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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I HATE seeing this as a gripe on OMG because I consider it to be entirely FALSE. But I've mostly given up trying to convince people otherwise and just let them hate the title all they want. Belldandy is "domestic" (the manga and anime OFTEN have Urd point out how Belldandy can take enjoyment from incredibly mundane tasks) but she is not a "doormat", not even to Keiichi. "Oh/Ah My Goddess" is a LOT like "Densha Otoko" if you made the story a LOT longer, yanked out the internet connection and actually spent a lot of time examining the relationship after they got together in depth. Belldandy is very patient and caring towards Keiichi, and for his part, Keiichi is very (probably overly) careful and caring towards Belldandy. If nothing else, you need to remember that altho Belldandy seems very sweet and innocent and subservient, part of why this appears so is because she is also very POWERFUL and ALL the other characters go to great lengths to see that that doesn't come into play unless necessary. There are numerous sequences where the rest of the cast takes pains to hide anything that might cause Belldandy to get "jealous" or "angry", and because of that, it rarely happens. Belldandy IS a "fanboy idealized" character, no denying that, but so are Ryoko (Tenchi), Lum (Urusei Yatsura), Fae Valentine (Bebop), or any of the lead girls in Haruhi, they just represent OTHER stereotypes to idolize. When I think "doormat" I think a character like Chii (Chobits). |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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I've read around 10-15 volumes of the A!MG manga, I've seen the OVA and the movie and the Mini-Goddess series and the first half of the original TV show.
I don't really agree with either of you. In the same breath you defend Belldandy and then admit she's a "fanboy idealized character". The latter basically excludes her from being anything more than a fairly shallow wet dream for people who fantasize about being married to a subservient, eternally patient and forgiving emotional doormat who never ever questions your motives or defends her own feelings. That isn't a character, it's pandering. It's not a realistic way to write a woman. You can see whatever you want between the lines, but based on what I've seen - and I've seen a lot of the series - basically none of what you're saying really rings true. I don't know about you but I don't watch anime so I can fantasize about being married to one of the female characters. I don't "fall in love" with them, I don't get "moe" feelings toward them. Maybe I'm in the minority around here (which seems to have become the case over the years), but that sort of thing isn't appealing to me. I don't want someone to specifically write a female character so she's making goo-goo eyes at the screen or acting in a way that I would personally find attractive; their personalities should service the story, not be designed to sell DVDs to desperate lonely otaku who apparently don't find actual women attractive. But maybe that's asking too much these days, to ask for realistic female characters who aren't written specifically so I'll furiously masturbate to them while also planning my imaginary wedding. That said, I don't "hate" A!MG. The artwork is gorgeous and sometimes the story can be funny and maybe a little touching, even. But the characters are what they are; unrealistic, two-dimensional fanboy bait. Does that mean the show sucks? No, it doesn't. You can have specific criticism about a show without damning the entire thing. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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I disagree with the bolded part. To reiterate my above point, you neglect to comment on the other "fanboy idealized" characters I noted. Heck, ANY "harem" show is nothing BUT idealized characters for a VARIETY of stereotypes. Negima has 31 of em, Tenchi has 5, Sister Princess has.. I dunno, what 12? I don't really want to debate the merits (or lack thereof) of the particular stereotype you think she fits and whether or not I agree as I don't think that'll be productive. But I don't see how the character type you noted is any worse than the "sex-pot who constantly berates and batters (physically) the male lead". |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Hmmm. I see where you're coming from with that, but I have to say that I was already married 22 years before I even first knew about A!MG let alone Belldandy, but I'll confess that the main reason I "fell in love" for lack of a better phrase, with it is because( and you might find this a bit ridiculous, but no matter) Bell has a rather striking resemblance to my wife when we were courting way back when, and that includes her attitude towards life in general and life with me, by no means an easy task. If you erase the megami marks off Bell's face she would look like a manga drawing of my wife at 22.
(Quick someone slap Zac on his back I think he's choking!) Now she looks more like Urd and I dare say can act like her to. I even call her the “Lord Of Terror” sometimes when befitting. If you're fully recovered now I would like to ask have you ever heard, or seen a manga, or anime that did have "realistic female characters who aren't written specifically so I'll (not included in this category) furiously masturbate to them while also planning my imaginary wedding?"(again not included) I believe, by your description of Bell, that maybe Hilde would be more your cup of tea? What is it that's said when your hobby becomes your job?
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Colonel Wolfe
 Posts: 370 |
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The author of the review, and this was what I had perceived, was that the reviewer makes the series seem more boring than dry rot if they hadn't seen the previous versions of the anime series or the manga series.
I respect the fact that the reviewers for ANN review upcoming anime titles but the review for this particular release seemed to be interjected with their own bias toward the series without stating that it was the opinion of the reviewer. From what I got, after reading the review, was that the reviewer offered a biased view of the series. I think that maybe the reviewer should have taken lessons from some of the reviewers over at Anime on DVD on how to write a review. At least Anime on DVD reviewers take the time to offer an un-biased review on the anime in question and then they clarify the opinions the reviewer has on the series. The Ah! My Goddess review in Shelf Life, was, in my opinion, very poorly written and not clearly identified as to who's opinion it was that the review was coming from. While I have already watched the complete second season and some of the plot devices were weak, I could have written a better review and so could my six year old nephew. |
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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Wouldn't it be logical that the opinion... would be my own opinion? Whose else opinion could it possibly be? A review is one person's personal opinion about a DVD/show/movie/toy/etc. The review of the 7th disc (or rather, the 1st disc of the 2nd season) was written with the thought in mind that there might be people who randomly picked up the disc without having seen any of the previous series before. Most of the appeal in AMG, or in that matter, any anime series, personally, is watching the characters change over time and seeing how they interact with each other. But if you're coming into a series in the middle of things, with zero prior knowledge of the show, I think it makes for dull viewing, *especially* if it's a character-driven show. There is no "bias." I'm not sure how I'm distorting the truth, here. ESPECIALLY since I have admitted, at least 6 or 7 times by now, that I am a fan of the AMG franchise. However, I was not enthralled with the 7th disc, and mentioned, as an addendum, that if you were to watch it with no prior knowledge of the show, that it would probably be dull. I know that not everyone will agree with my reviews. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, just as I am entitled to mine. What I *do* take issue with is the use of the word "bias." Just because I don't sit on the fence and say, "Well, AMG is a really awesome show if you happen to like AMG," doesn't mean that I'm biased. It just means that I have an opinion of the series that happens to be contrary to yours. Am I supposed to give everything a B rating just to make sure that I appease everyone? So, Colonel Wolfe, if your 6-year old nephew would like to submit a brief anime review, in order to enlighten me on how to write an unbiased review, please encourage him to do so. I will publish it in the next column. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Out of curiosity, why the difference in presenting that argument between AMG season 2 (which is being released near enough to within a year of season 1) and Tenchi OVA 3 (which was MANY years after Tenchi OVAs 1 & 2). Tenchi 3 is presented as "this is awesome but you MUST see the earlier stuff to "get" it. Whereas AMG is presented as "this is awful and if you're not aware of that already then no point in bothering". |
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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Because in my opinion, even though I'd seen all the previous AMGs, I still didn't like the 2nd season very much, or at least that first disc that I saw of it. But I did recommend that if someone were going to watch it anyway, and they haven't been exposed to the franchise before, that they should start with the OVAs, because I think that the OVAs are very much worth seeing. Tenchi 3 made me want to rewatch all the old OVAs again, so I could wallow in nostalgia. AMG S2 just kind of made me wish I was watching the old stuff instead. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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She's not allowed to like one show more than the other now? What in the world is wrong with you people? |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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I NEVER said that, but earlier in this thread it was state that she has a bias against certain shows. You made a statement saying that's a strong charge and you'd like to see proof. I decided to check for myself and I feel I'm entitled to a little lattitude (altho, also open for a head-shake of disbelief for going to the trouble) for actually READING her past reviews to see if that stands. As stated, it was my contention that she is not biased against the GENRE but IS biased against this particular TITLE. (or maybe the TV series line, I dunno) I'd like to think rather than being dismissive, you could at least CONSIDER that viewpoint considering the effort it took to find another title that saw a later "season" release (rather than just a later volume). And it's especially relevant since Tenchi 3 also had a different COMPANY release. Like I said earlier, the views for people who liked the first series liking the second was the same, and the view of people who DON'T like the first series not finding anything to draw them in is the same. Where I think the review does a disservice is in telling people who HAVEN'T seen the series basically not to bother because they'll be coming in the middle and be totally lost so screw it. Whereas, for Tenchi it was "this is so awesome you should go watch the originals so you know what's going on. (even though, like OMG you'll have NO IDEA what is going on in Tenchi3 if you haven't seen the originals) But then, I DID explain all this before. ps - BTW Bamboo, love the XP-Tan costume, altho I have 95-Tan as my work PC wallpaper. 
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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What? Lies. ; ) I totally wrote "Otherwise, start with the OVAs or if you're lazy, maybe the movie."
Hehe, thanks. XP > 95 4lyfe. |
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Colonel Wolfe
Posts: 370 |
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I think you misunderstood my original post. The review in Shelf Life, while it was a review, is misrepresenting itself. If you take a look at the review done by Anime on DVD and then read the review that was made in Shelf Life, the ANN Review is a proven example on how not to write a review. If it was your own impression or your own view on the first DVD, you should have stated this somewhere in the review.
The problem is that your review was definately biased against this particular DVD. What I found, in reading the Shelf Life article was that the entire review seemed biased and the comparisons to any other anime series cannot be justified. Oh, and for arguments sake, a review is supposed to be unbiased, reviewing the different aspects of that particular title, listing the good points, bad points and what-not. Her review left a lot to be desired and begs to question whether ANN can be trusted as far as its reviews process goes. It just goes to prove that there needs to be some sort of oversight where it concerns anyone reviewing a particular release. Just look at the professional reviews that are done by Gord Lacey and Dave Lambert over at TV Shows on DVD.com. They first review the DVD release in question and then offer their own opinions at the end stating what is right or wrong with the release. |
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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Reviewing IS giving your opinion on the subject in question. Reviewing and giving your opinion are not two separate processes.
I simply can't see the problem here. While it has the number "1" for its volume number, its really the middle of a series and Bamboo simply said that if you haven't seen the first half/season, there isn't much point in starting here. This is a problem how? Then she stated why she didn't like it. Again, I'm not not seeing the problem. Honestly, all this "bias" BS is getting really old. |
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