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Forum - View topicPeople Really Think Hellsing Ultimate Is All That?!
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TranceLimit174
 Posts: 964 |
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I can't believe what I watched last night. Yesterday as a birthday present my brother bought me Hellsing Ultimate. I had been wanting to see it, since I had heard nothing but positive things, and while I'm not the biggest Hellsing fan saved for the crap ending I enjoyed it. Now I gotta ask, what is so great about it? To me, I thought the whole thing was just, dare I say, awful. First of all the show didn't come off so much as an animated work but rather a comic in motion. It was like they took panels from the comic, and just animated what was within the panel. So really it felt more like a slideshow. Also while I'm at it, I would like to take the time to say that if this is the "power" of CG animation just toss it right now. Is this really what high budget anime is going to be from now on? The violence in this series was just strange. The CG blood didn't look like it belonged to the bodies' it was supposedly coming from, and instead it appeared as if a splatter was just made onto a screen. Not only that but the volume was surprisingly low, especially in the infamous fight between Alucard and Alexander. Hellsing Ultimate is also a testament to why CG cels are inferior to those that are hand drawn. The show was so clean, that everything overall was brighter. In a series that is supposed to be dark, the brightness of all brought the series down. There was no level of grit, no eerie feeling like in the series. In fact in my opinion, the series looks much better than the OVA. It's simply more graphic. Also I can see that the animators were trying to go for some real cinematic effects (like Alucard shooting off his gun in slow mo). This really slowed down the action and overall I felt the whole thing was really stiff and not fluid at all.
As far as story content, Ultimate feels disjointed. From what I understand Ultimate is supposed to be viewed as an independent work, and because of that the disjointed feel hurts it more. It's like fans just took a collection of favorite scenes and tossed them together in an effort to make a story. Once again, the term slideshow comes to mind. Really the only saving grace was the Father Anderson's VA. He outshined everyone else performance wise but at the same time I felt that he was the only one who really got the chance to flex his acting muscles. But that issue is due to the script itself, it just didn't feel like people said enough (outside of Integra) to really get a feel for how they handled their performances. The soundtrack also was nothing remarkable. To me it came off as cheesy if nothing else, making it hard to take things seriously. Geneon did go all out on the release though, which is a very good thing. And where in some parts on the DVD itself (such as how the series closes out) add to the feeling that this show was INCREDIBLY overhyped, the content and menus are great and far surpass what I normally expect on an anime DVD. To me Ultimate is, if anything toned down. So many other series, both new and old look so much better, including the previous Hellsing. People may think I'm expecting too much, but I don't think so. There was very little fluidity to the entire production, and heck one episode of King Gainer looks more high budget than this. When I hear OVA the first thing that comes to mind is better animation, and when one episode of a 26 episode series manages to outshine a 50-minute OVA animation-wise, something's wrong. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Agreed. Partially. The use of CG animation in Japan needs some serious help. Glorious will be the day Japan realizes that hideous 3D models moving in the clunkiest ways possible DO NOT function alongside 2D animation, digital or otherwise.
Wait until episode two. The animation in Hellsing Ultimate's first episode wasn't that great (still better than the TV series, but more on that in a minute), but episode two was just incredible, and really put a lot of the naysayers down but good.
You realize that almost no anime since abaout 1998 has been hand drawn, right? Yes, even the first Hellsing TV series was done digitally.
Actually, this one WAS a lot darker, at least when compared to the TV series. The color palette was more muted and the overall scheme had a better harmony. The TV series's color scheme was so bright and jarring it became hard to look at. Solid, primary reds, yellows, and blues all clashing together at full blaring intensity as the TV series had is only painful on the eyes, where the more muted tones here were much more friendly.
Having already addressed the TV series's painful color choices, I'll address the animation here. The TV series suffered from some really blocky-looking character animation, with things moving with that odd clunkiness that's typical of lower level Japanese TV animation. Ultimate I don't recall having any of that. Some of the animation got sketchy and jerky, but it didn't feel like I was watching a bunch of blocks shuffling around. The TV series also suffered TERRIBLY from off-model animation aplenty, where the actual animation distorts the character designs and makes the characters appear deformed or outright mutilated. The TV series revelled in this kind of crap, where the OVA, again, did not. Adding further, we have Studio Gonzo's laughable 2000-era practice of inserting clumsy-looking CG backgrounds everywhere they possibly could (something which also plagued any scene Full Metal Panic! had inside the Tuatha de'Danaan). Ultimate's first episode got a bit jerky and used still shots a little much, but it's still the lesser of the two evils, by far. And as stated, though it retains a slight bit of jerkiness, episode two is a tremendous improvement.
It's disjointed because it's a more direct adaptation of the manga. The first volume of the manga was similarly disjointed. It's just as stand-alone and self-sufficient as the manga was, and again, by their respective second installments, both manga and OVA show marked improvement. Besides, the TV series is no saint here. Episode five and onward aside, I seem to recall the TV incarnation doing weird things like throwing in some inane gay vampire love hoo-hah into the episode covering Alucard & Anderson's first appearance. I'd take a literal adaptation of the manga with all the disjointedness contained therein to crap like that easily. |
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dewlwieldthedarpachief
 Posts: 751 Location: Canada |
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Well said Nagisa. I also, will testify to Ultimate's superiority.
On the contrary, I think the TV show was toned down! What with that whole Romeo and Juliet vampire boreathon in the beginning, and the absence of 90% of the manga's sweet, sweet mayhem. Trance, why not give it a second watch? Sometimes I'll sit down to something and be completely nonplussed. It could be something on my mind. Maybe just a bad mood. Its not like you gotta jump on the bandwagon, but I'm hard pressed not to be impressed. |
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Zero89
Posts: 147 |
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Thank You! Like you, I had only heard good things about Hellsing Ultimate, so I decided to try it out... I came away thoroughly unimpressed. I thought it was just me that thought the animation in Hellsing Ultimate was crappy... especially the scenes where they try to slow down the gun animation, and the scenespoiler[ where the vampire priest is trying to "molest" Victoria]; It shows movement, then goes directly back to the previous film shot... almost as if they merely inserted a new shot into an already existing animated sequence. I'm having trouble describing this, but anyone who has seen the first episode should know what I mean.
Overall, I thought the first Hellsing's intro was better, the second's was just... ugh... worse. From the still frames, to the "comedy" they tried to implement into the show, I thought the first Hellsing did a far superior Job. I guess the difference is (besides being a "direct" manga adaptation) that the first Hellsing got worse and worse, while, according to Nagisa, Ultimate actually gets better in the second ep.? So I guess I'll have to check that out before I call Hellsing Ultimate a piece of crap... But for now, the animation just doesn't seem as "mature" as the first Hellsing... Chibi drawings most definitely do not belong in a series like Hellsing, what with the blood splattering everywhere and what not. So yeah, glad to hear I'm not alone... 
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Thanatos01s2
 Posts: 231 |
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I completely agree, I made a topic the day I watched it becasue I was so pissed off at how crappy it truly was. It was a recap of the first five episodes. Talk about a joke. I heard there are supposed to be 10 or so volumes too, so that means I will not be buying anymore and my copy will be going up on ebay. Biggest letdown in a very very long time.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 19161 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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From what I've seen online, the number of people who prefer Ultimate to the TV series - and, in fact, think that Ultimate is the greatest thing since sliced bread - far outnumber those who prefer the TV series. I don't personally get that, either, but I'm content to stick with my minority view.
For me, the fact that it was much more faithful to the manga is an irrelevant point, as I've never read the manga and this seems to indicate (as others have already noted) that the original manga itself has issues. I'll bow to Nagisa's apparently much better eye on the technical issues, as I noticed little or none of what he's talking about, but someone is going to have to try very, very hard to convince me that that the writing and music in the equivalent TV series episodes isn't far superior to the writing in the OVA; the writing had a far better flow, the music was far better at setting the tone, and the closer and especially the opener were far better. Granted, the series goes downhill a bit in the second half (although I don't remember anything about a "gay vampire" and I've watched that series several times), but except for the way the series ended I never thought it was that bad. Hopefully Episode 2 is as fantastic as people say it is and will change my mind. So far, though, Ultimate has been a significant disappointment for me. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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They don't belong in a "serious" vampire anime, you mean. Hellsing is not serious. It's not meant to be taken seriously (another issue I have with that abysmal TV series). It's playfully blasé, and to have Seras fill the part of the comical fool (complete with the more comical animation style) fits ideally in that respect. And yes, this sort of odd artistic aside is rampant in the manga, too, so your problem is more with the original author Hirano than with Ultimate, since Ultimate is merely trying to bring his style to film. Basically, don't shoot the messenger, or something loosely along those lines.
As I said in your last thread and as I'm telling you now, Hellsing Ultimate IS NOT A RECAP OF THE TELEVISION SERIES. It is directly adapting THE MANGA. Why don't you try listening to other people once in a long while? I can respect that you didn't like Ultimate, but I won't respect doing so out of such blatant ignorance, especially when it flies in the face of people having already attempted to inform you otherwise.
Episode three, where Anderson first appears. Gonzo threw in some nauseating crap about some pseudo-gay vampiric Italian runaways or some nonsense. Their attempt at building up that whole "Freak Chip" plotline that went nowhere. Heh, the "Freak Chip" angle. Unceremoniously dropped and blatantly altered plotlines. Before Gundam SEED Destiny, Hellsing TV was where I got my fill of those. 
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8634 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I personally prefer Hellsing Ultimate slightly over the original series.
The CGI animation, while sticking out like a sore thumb, is sort of loud and bombastic as the way Alucard is when he lets loose. You see this red-wearing snarky vampire with CGI guns when they slow to fire and it brings the focus to that particular element - and I thought it was interesting. The colors and lines are more muted and manga-like, the style is much closer to the manga than the TV series was. There is a sense of jarring violence in comparison to an unassuming palette, but in tune with many of the bizzare skeleton-like character designs. It's suitably brutal and over-the-top when it needs to be. My only real problem with it is the poor music. The second episode makes up for the first's, somewhat, but in both, the spooky guitar riffs are gone and replaced a with flat, uninspired, forgettable soundtrack. Only the closing theme is worth listening to. But overall, it seems like an improved effort. And at least there's no chance of Incognito showing up, since it's a close adaptation of the manga. I look foward to the next episode. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Both of them pale in comparison to the manga but Ultimate is really the better of the two.
Those of you who haven't read the manga but are writing it off based on the strength of the first episode (hell, just watch episode 2 if you want a small taste of how badass it's going to get) are going to miss out big time. Seriously, the people are excited about Hellsing Ultimate are largely manga fans because they know what's coming. |
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drakonslair
Posts: 74 Location: Ireland |
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Yeah I feel the same way. I've read the manga and the first thing I thought when I saw Ultimate was " Awesome they are following the manga exactly" |
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zombie828
Posts: 62 |
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After I saw Hellsing Ultimate 1 a few months back I didn't think much of it and I preferred the TV series over it. But after seeing the second OVA it became one of the top things I'm looking forward to seeing the next episode of, especially since OVA 3 won't have been animated in the TV series.
Although I didn't like the CG, I just absolutely loved the way it was all drawn. The fight scenes are damn awesome too. |
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roujin
 Posts: 139 |
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I know it's been said dozens of times but the one particular reason that I've yet to fully embrace Hellsing Ultimate as ultimately (
) superior is mainly because of its dissapointing use of music. Perhaps the original music from the series just didn't fit with the new tone that they were going since it was mostly being taken from the manga... I don't really know.
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Zork
 Posts: 207 |
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Hellsing Ultimate is my first exposure to the Hellsing franchise and I have to say I enjoyed it immensly. There are a couple of things that annoyed me, like the excessive blood lose when somebody gets shot, as when spoiler[ Alucard shoots that teenage male vampire. It seems the guy loses enough blood to fill a swimming pool ]
Also, as several people have said, scenes showing the slow motion firing of Alucard's gun seem rather excessive. I do have one trivial question. What exactly are the "Holy Blades" that Anderson uses? When spoiler[ Victoria first gets stabbed by what seems like a dozen or more of the Holy Blades, Anderson is is still on the floors above and nowhere to be seen ] How does Anderson use them and where does he keep all of them? The number of Holy Blades that appear borders on the insane. |
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indrik
 Posts: 365 Location: yonder |
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You know, I could agree with the OP (and those who agree with him, certainly) if you're looking at Ultimate in a vacuum. It seems like some basic cosmetic upgrades- definitely improvements, but basically cosmetic- to the tv series, and the first volume really doesn't do much on its own. But knowing it's a setup, and knowing what's to come, and knowing what the changes mean.... that's the exciting part. Although I have to admit that I did start reading the manga because Zac ranted about it so much, and yes: if they stick to the manga, this will be a heck of a ride, watching some of the later plot lines come up in this style. Anderson's a much much more interesting character in the manga than what he got in the tv series.
Bottom line: was not impressed, read the manga, am now a convert. |
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TranceLimit174
Posts: 964 |
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It's sounds like Ultimate in a way is perhaps too faithful (given how the disjointed feel sounds like it's a carry over). Nagisa, I know much better than to try and debate the level of animation between the two with you, as your eye is much keener than mine.
A nice bit of information (didn't know that), although I don't know how my comment sparked that particular response. I still hold that the best of the hand drawn can stand up to and surpass what we've seen in the digital age. Well what I'm mainly hearing is the "it's gonna get better" arguement. I'm not gonna fault that because it is valid for a lot of series. I'm unfamiliar with the manga so I guess I can see that this first volume has excited fans mostly because it's a prelude of what's to come rather than praising the actual merits of this first installment. If Hellsing Ultimate really does improve in episode 2 then I'll just have to keep going. It sounds like the show is going to go in a completely different direction and I am very interested in that aspect alone, seeing as how if the series would have just made some friggin sense as opposed to being slopped together it would have been much better. In the meantime I'm gonna rewatch the series and compare (it's been two years). I just remember these opening stages being much more well handled and being blown away by Alucard and Anderson's fight in the show. But maybe my opinion will change when I re-watch it. Also, I hope Father Anderson comes back as I think he's a great character and is quite entertaining to watch. |
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