Forum - View topicThe Last Samurai and its similarities with Kenshin*SPOILERS*
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Empyrical
 Posts: 84 Location: Everywhere you're not |
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I just saw this movie today, and I noticed a tremendous amount of similarities between it and Kenshin. PM Kurogane similarities were there as well. The movie and Kenshin took place around the same time, and I was surprised at how accurate it was in almost every aspect. The ninjas were pretty cool, too.
My question is: In Kenshin, the samurais fight without armor. In this movie, they all fight in traditional samurai armor. Now, did samurais in the Bakumatsu wear armor (Kenshin and PMK never show anyone with armor), or did they do this because of people's general assumption about samurai? I realize this movie took place in the Meiji, but the samurai were all left over from the Bakumatsu. I have been very confused about this, and I know that samurai have been known to wear armor like that. Thank you to anyone who can clear this up for me. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Personally, I'm racking my brain trying to remember if there even were any combatant samurai in Kenshin. And before anyone even thinks to bring it up, Kenshin himself IS NOT an actual samurai (dunno why, but it pisses me off so much when people say he is).
No...I can't recall any samurai characters in Kenshin, short of the one guy from the Jinchuu Arc who spoiler[had his arm severed by Kenshin and replaced it with a cannon mount.] The flashbacks show him in armour, but that's about it. Granted, I'm going by the manga, so there may be some piece of filler I'm forgetting. |
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sacchan
Posts: 277 Location: Okinawa, Japan |
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I haven't seen the movie yet (looking forward to it though
 ), but I read somewhere that the samurai are wearing their ancestors' armors to show their devotion to the old ways.
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hellsing
 Posts: 248 Location: top of mt Fuji killing sin with Titus. |
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Good to know that the Japanese in the movie are sticking to their old traditions.
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Empyrical
Posts: 84 Location: Everywhere you're not |
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What bothers me is that Kenshin is sometimes referred to throughout the series as a samurai. Most of the Shinsengumi members in PMK are also referred to as samurai in various scenes, and even Okita states that he is a samurai. If Kenshin and the Shinsengumi weren't samurais, then what were they? Swordsmen? Because that's pretty lame seeing as the characters of both Kenshin and the leaders of the Shinsengumi are illustrated as being more powerful than samurai, which doesn't make sense.
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Sesshoumaru sama
 Posts: 170 Location: Texas, USA |
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Kenshin is an assassin.
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Sesshoumaru sama
Posts: 170 Location: Texas, USA |
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From what I read the shinsengumi were like a police force type of thing.
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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The Shinsengumi were a group employed by the Shogunate to protect the city of Kyoto during the Meiji Revolution. They were mostly rather skilled swordsmen, and they came from many different backgrounds, some of which were indeed from samurai families if memory serves. They were feared at the time (gained the nickname of "Wolves of Mibu," or "Miburo"), but practically changed their image overnight to that of heroes due to their actions on June 1864 (Ikeda-ya Affair), in which they stopped a plan by the Ishin-Shishi to set the city of Kyoto on fire.
Hajime Saitou, while I'm at it, was the captain of the Shinsegumi third squad. He was also something of an executioner, as he was sent to assassinate some of the more corrupted higher-ups in the group (such as Kanryuusai Takeda & Kashitarou Itou). And the reason Kenshin and the others are often seen as being stronger than samurai in the series is that samurai weren't just fighters, but more noblemen. Not all of them were crazy, muscular fighting types. Plus, by the time Rurouni Kenshin takes place, they have almost no political power whatsoever. |
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Mou Kaoru
 Posts: 298 Location: Simple minds are easily amused. |
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Kenshin was a hitokiri, which is an assassin...NOT samurai. Difference here. Yes he is a swordsman, but he never served a master, only ordered to kill people.
During what scene does that take place by the way? I've only read the first two volumes.
Yes they were a police troop who protected Kyoto. Especially during the Ishin movements, where many Shishis roamed Kyoto plotting the downfall of the Shogunate. They were feared for their mercilessness towards any suspicious persons or enemies. Edit: Hehe.  Nagisa beat me to the punch and elaborates much better. I need to learn to type faster. 
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Empyrical
Posts: 84 Location: Everywhere you're not |
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I'm speaking of the PMK anime, and it happens when Okita's explaining to Tetsunosuke why he killed the guy who tried to kill him. "He didn't look at me as a samurai.....", as well as other ones I'm too lazy to think about.
I'm not stupid. I have seen most of Kenshin, own the OVA's, and am, again, not stupid. The reason that I ask is because the american title for RK is titled "Wandering Samurai", leading me to think that Kenshin is or was a samurai. He does technically serve a master, like in the OVA when the guy asks Kenshin to kill for him, and Hiko if that counts. Or Kaoru 
Why would they employ an ordinary swordsman to do assassinations when a ninja could probably do the same thing better? |
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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The "Wandering Samurai" thing is a simple screwup. But then, there IS a running theme in the manga where people confuse Kenshin for a samurai because he carries a sword.
Also, being a samurai requires you be born into a family of that status. spoiler[Kenshin (Shinta, rather) was born into a poor peasant family that died of illness, was taken as a slave, saved by Hiko, and I'm sure you know the rest from there.] By the way, what is this PMK thing? It has Okita, that warrants immediate attention. 
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Mou Kaoru
Posts: 298 Location: Simple minds are easily amused. |
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Oh OK I know what part your talking about. spoiler[During the part where those guys gang up on that little girl in front of the store. The reason Okita said that is because he couldn't let anyone know they were Shinsengumi. The reason that man (name escapes me at the moment) was going undercover was to find out any info on the Choujin's movements. There might have been more Choujin hiding inside the store who probably got nervous when they saw their men fighting outside with Tetsu. If the Shinsengumi had intervened in the situation, then they would have fled and everything would have been ruined. If it were just a fight between a few samurai, then the fight would have ended without much fuss. When Tetsu yelled out Okita's name, the man found out that he was Shinsengumi. If the man were to have gotten away, he would have reported back to his comrades. Thus, Okita had no choice but to kill him.]
I never said you were stupid and I apologize if it sounded that way. When I said master, I meant more like a lord. I guess you can say "hitokiris" were samurai with exceptional skills, as well as very powerful, used to assassinate. I think to be a samurai, you had to be born into a noble family, and that just didn't happen with Kenshin.
Good question. Maybe because swordsmen were thought to be stronger and were not afraid to die, seeing as how they lived by Bushido. |
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Kidotai
 Posts: 138 Location: one of those islands in the pacific |
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Well, it's more of a rip-off of Dances with Wolves. But still, I have to agree with the reviewer (and to see it for myself, given it was a freebie pass). It tried to be a Kurosawa film, and it failed in even trying to emulate it.
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Empyrical
Posts: 84 Location: Everywhere you're not |
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Nagisa: PMK, or Peacemaker Kurogane rather, is a new anime in Japan that you could probably find on fansubs if you know where to look. It details a young boy's ambitions to become a member of the Shinsengumi, and all of the big legends are in there (Harada Sanosuke, Nagakura Shinpachi, Okita Souji, even Hajime Saitou.
 ). Although, Saitou's appearance and attitude is much, much different from Kenshin. He is still an excellent swordsman, but he's kind of fruity and he communicates with dead people.
Yeah, it did feel like it was trying to emulate a Kurosawa film, but if you judge the film on its own merits, then it is really good.[/b] |
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