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Shelf Life - Hikari Un-Go


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Surrender Artist



Joined: 01 May 2011
Posts: 3264
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:56 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Shenl742 wrote:


Thank you for bringing up that strip, it was a blast reading it again.

I hear there's a Manga where cockroaches are anthropomorphised as Moe girls. Is there no level that Japan won't stoop to?


Anthropomorphized concentration camps and moefied serial killers? The world is waiting for meganekko Auschwitz and nekomimi Albert Fish!
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:18 am Reply with quote
Cecilthedarkknight_234 wrote:
so having a mascots is a bad things?? Listen you hate it I like it that's where our line draws out for our biases.


It was a light-hearted comment, sort of like "oh Japan you . . .".

When you say you "like it", does that mean you've actually read the cockroach Manga in question? What was it like?
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3820
Location: Louisville, KY
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:45 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Cecilthedarkknight_234 wrote:
so having a mascots is a bad things?? Listen you hate it I like it that's where our line draws out for our biases.


It was a light-hearted comment, sort of like "oh Japan you . . .".

When you say you "like it", does that mean you've actually read the cockroach Manga in question? What was it like?


my mistake well it's hard to say if you can't look past the art. The girl knows she is cockroach but wants to interact with humans which ends up with a slipper or cat chasing her. In all honesty.. it's a kids manga or show cute to look at and fun watch but nothing to deep.
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1524
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:14 am Reply with quote
I don't think mascot's are "wrong" per se (Read Breakfast of the Gods Laughing )

...I just think that anthropomorphising a consummable product can be inherantly creepy when you think about it...

I mean, is drinking soda analogous to drinkng their blood? What happens when the soda runs out? Will the girls have to canabalise other sodas to fill back up, like some kind of carbonated vampire?

If you accidently rip the metal tab at the top off, will they become bald when they turn human...or decapitated? Shocked
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egoist



Joined: 20 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:17 am Reply with quote
I wouldn't hesitate to put Akikan! on the bottom of my list if I actually cared about rating the worst things out there.
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:38 pm Reply with quote
Shenl742 wrote:
I don't think mascot's are "wrong" per se (Read Breakfast of the Gods Laughing )

...I just think that anthropomorphizing a consumable product can be inherently creepy when you think about it...

I mean, is drinking soda analogous to drinking their blood? What happens when the soda runs out? Will the girls have to canabalise other sodas to fill back up, like some kind of carbonated vampire?

If you accidentally rip the metal tab at the top off, will they become bald when they turn human...or decapitated? Shocked


well the tab could be a woman's cl**....now excuse me while I go laugh my ass off...because I can write so many fan fictions now.
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 598
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:24 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Quote:
I hear there's a Manga where cockroaches are anthropomorphised as Moe girls. Is there no level that Japan won't stoop to?


I've read a few chapters of that, and it's not as bad as you'd think.

She came from Hokkaido to make friends!

I've given a panel twice now on Moe Anthropomorphism, including once last weekend at Genericon, so I was just totally researching Gokiburi-chan. You can get toys of both the brown and black cockroach girls.

Shenl742 wrote:
...I just think that anthropomorphising a consummable product can be inherantly creepy when you think about it...

There's a long history of that sort of thing in Japan. You can read about it a bit in Matt Alt's book, Hello, Please! Very Helpful Super Kawaii Characters from Japan.

Personally, I think anime fans in Japan are conditioned to accept anthropomorphic characters from pre-school age starting with Anpanman, the anthropomorphic red bean bun who feeds pieces of his head to hungry people. Occasionally they bake him a new head. What, you've never heard of it? There are only 1065 episodes and over a dozen movies...
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:17 am Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
I think I've kind of figured it out. If it's really really bad like Akikan is, then Erin can find some sort of enjoyment out of it. This isn't the first pile of excrement that she has stamped a 'rental' on, and it certainly won't be the last. And yes, when a great studio like Brains Base, who did Durarara, Kurenai, Mawaru Penguindrum, Kamichu, Baccano, Natsume Yuujinchou, etc. puts in the absolute bottom-of-the-barrel animation/art, then I think it's pretty safe to say that even the studio didn't even enjoy working on the show.
Let's not forget that Brains Base also did Denpa Teki na Kanojo, a fact they won't let us forget by virtue of the cross-promotion they snuck into Akikan. I also expected the positions of Akikan and Princess Resurrection to be reversed, since PR has a dub and doesn't seem to be as much of an "otaku database" Type B anime like Akikan that could be described as "using lots of anime tropes." And as we all know, using tropes is always bad.

Also of note in Akikan are Sentai's professional trollsubs. Granted, it's not like they're a detriment for this type of show, but some of the liberties are pretty noticeable. Like having Kakeru sing "Rubber ducky, you're the one" in the bath. Or during one scene while Kakeru's hitting on a vending machine, he says something like "I don't want to hit the wrong button and have Chris Hansen suddenly appear in front of me." (I don't recall the exact line, but "Chris Hansen" was definitely in there.) It's as if Sentai were dismayed at not being able to do a dub, so they spiced up the subtitles as if they were writing dub scripts.
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hyojodoji



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:20 pm Reply with quote
Erin Finnegan wrote:
All of the cases are based on an older series of detective stories by Tsunao Sakaguchi, so the terrorist war seems to act as an obvious proxy for World War II.

 
Actually, Meiji Kaika Ango Torimonochō, which Un-Go is mainly based on, was written by Sakaguchi Ango. Sakaguchi Tsunao, who is a photographer, is the son of Sakaguchi Ango.
I read Meiji Kaika Ango Torimonochō in the original.
 
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Nayu



Joined: 23 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:10 am Reply with quote
hyojodoji wrote:
Erin Finnegan wrote:
All of the cases are based on an older series of detective stories by Tsunao Sakaguchi, so the terrorist war seems to act as an obvious proxy for World War II.

 
Actually, Meiji Kaika Ango Torimonochō, which Un-Go is mainly based on, was written by Sakaguchi Ango. Sakaguchi Tsunao, who is a photographer, is the son of Sakaguchi Ango.
I read Meiji Kaika Ango Torimonochō in the original.
 


Oops, I guess another case of Erin getting her objective facts wrong. I guess she needs a better editor as well.

Or at least an editor who is competent.
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erinfinnegan
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:53 pm Reply with quote
hyojodoji wrote:
Erin Finnegan wrote:
All of the cases are based on an older series of detective stories by Tsunao Sakaguchi, so the terrorist war seems to act as an obvious proxy for World War II.

 
Actually, Meiji Kaika Ango Torimonochō, which Un-Go is mainly based on, was written by Sakaguchi Ango. Sakaguchi Tsunao, who is a photographer, is the son of Sakaguchi Ango.
I read Meiji Kaika Ango Torimonochō in the original.

I was having a super hard time finding information about that, so thanks!

If you've read the book and seen Un-Go, what did you think? I'm super curious.
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samuelp
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Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 2233
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:59 pm Reply with quote
erinfinnegan wrote:
hyojodoji wrote:
Erin Finnegan wrote:
All of the cases are based on an older series of detective stories by Tsunao Sakaguchi, so the terrorist war seems to act as an obvious proxy for World War II.

 
Actually, Meiji Kaika Ango Torimonochō, which Un-Go is mainly based on, was written by Sakaguchi Ango. Sakaguchi Tsunao, who is a photographer, is the son of Sakaguchi Ango.
I read Meiji Kaika Ango Torimonochō in the original.

I was having a super hard time finding information about that, so thanks!

If you've read the book and seen Un-Go, what did you think? I'm super curious.

It's far more complex than that. Ango Sakaguchi is one of the most prominent writers and thinkers in post-war Japan.
He wrote numerous collections of essays, both fiction and non-fiction, debating philosophy. He also wrote fiction like the detective stories, which are set in the meiji era but allegorical to the issues of post-war Japan.
I'm not sure much of his works have english translations at all.

Un-go is based off many of the short stories in the detective novels, but also a number of non-fiction essays which were published in small newspapers at the time and later collected.

It used to be the case that some of his short essays were required reading in high school, but I'm not sure that's true any longer.
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hyojodoji



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 585
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:53 am Reply with quote
erinfinnegan wrote:
thanks!

It's a pleasure.
 
 
erinfinnegan wrote:
If you've read the book and seen Un-Go, what did you think? I'm super curious.

ノイタミナ(笑) Sorry, I'm too lazy to watch Un-Go. I think I may be able to understand the feelings of habitués in the 'Too lazy to watch anime' thread on 2ch. Also I remember a joke in a manga by Yoshida Sensha in which a person wants a video game that he can 'finish' without actually playing it due to his laziness.

Since Aikawa Shō, the scriptwriter for Un-Go, said, '「堕落論」からの引用を入れた', '「余はベンメイす」というエッセイから引用しているんです', '引用は「デカダン文学論」からが中心ですね', '原案の「幻の塔」という話', '「アンゴウ」という短編小説をできるだけそのまま「UN-GO」として映像化する', and so on, people who read works by Ango may enjoy Un-Go more than people who don't, however.

Though Sakaguchi Ango was usually considered to be an author of 'serious' literature, detective stories were more than a hobby for him. In The Phantom Castle, Edogawa Ranpo wrote, '坂口安吾は昭和二十二年、全く自発的に探偵小説の試作を思立ち、探偵小説界に挑戦すると号して、文芸雑誌「日本小説」に本格長編探偵小説「不連続殺人事件」を連載した。これについては「宝石」二十三年十一、十二月合併号に詳説しておいたが、本格探偵小説の本質を把握すること、探偵作家も及ばぬものがあり、諸人瞠目の出来栄えであった。' Tsuzuki Michio, a famous mystery writer, wrote, '全小説の四分の一が、推理小説であるわけで、これはもう、余技や遊びとは、いえないだろう。文学畑から、推理小説に手をだすのが、はやった昭和三十年代ではない。敗戦後間もない昭和二十二年から、世を去る三十年まで、書いていたのだ。坂口安吾が仕事の重要な一部として、推理小説を考えていたことは、間違いない。推理小説が好きだったことは、もっと間違いないだろう。'

Essays by Sakaguchi Ango, too, are very interesting.
Sakaguchi Ango wrote:
 銀座から築地へ歩き、渡船に乗り、佃島へ渡ることが、よく、あった。この渡船は終夜運転だから、帰れなくなる心配はない。
佃島は一間ぐらいの暗くて細い道の両側に「佃茂」だの「佃一」だのという家が並び、佃煮屋かも知れないが、漁村の感じで、渡船を降りると、突然遠い旅に来たような気持になる。とても川向うが銀座だとは思われぬ。こんな旅の感じが好きであったが、ひとつには、聖路加病院の近所にドライアイスの工場があって、そこに雑誌の同人が勤めていたため、この方面へ足の向く機会が多かったのである。
 さて、ドライアイスの工場だが、これが奇妙に僕の心を惹くのであった。
 工場地帯では変哲もない建物であるかも知れぬ。起重機だのレールのようなものがあり、右も左もコンクリートで頭上の遥か高い所にも、倉庫からつづいてくる高架レールのようなものが飛び出し、ここにも一切の美的考慮というものがなく、ただ必要に応じた設備だけで一つの建築が成立っている。町家の中でこれを見ると、魁偉であり、異観であったが、然し、頭抜けて美しいことが分るのだった。
 聖路加病院の堂々たる大建築。それに較べれば余り小さく、貧困な構えであったが、それにも拘らず、この工場の緊密な質量感に較べれば、聖路加病院は子供達の細工のようなたあいもない物であった。この工場は僕の胸に食い入り、遥か郷愁につづいて行く大らかな美しさがあった。


Sakaguchi Ango wrote:
 仙台は伊達政宗のひらいた城下町。その時までは原野であったそうだ。
 この城は天嶮だね。しかし眼下に平野を見下し、水運には恵まれないが、陸路の要地ではある。政宗が仙台を開府したのは、大坂や江戸の開府よりも後のことだ。だが、大坂や江戸にくらべて、地点の選び方が田舎豪傑式であり、近代性が低いのである。
 秀吉は主として信長の独創を実践した人で、彼自身の、独創というものはあまりないが、大阪の地に立って四方を見ると、ここに居城を選んだ彼の識見の凡庸ならざることがハッキリするね。海陸ともに交通の要点で、これにまさるいかなる要点も有り得ない。ビワ湖に面した安土城(信長晩年の設計)と大阪の地とでは、雲泥の差があるね。安土の地はなお戦国的な要点であるが、大阪は近代の首府に通じる要点だ。


I also read talks by Katsu Kaishū. Kaishō Rinroku in Un-Go is modelled on Katsu Kaishū. People who read talks by him, too, may enjoy Un-Go.

To people who are interested in the Meiji period and detective stories, I'd like to also recommend Keishichō Zōshi by Yamada Fūtarō.
 
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