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Forum - View topicCode Geass: Semi-historical connection.
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kaiser11492
Posts: 164 |
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When I first watched Code Geass, the Holy Britannian Empire seemed to have many characteristics from real, historical world powers. I know that supposedly the reason why Britain was chosen overall was because of their unique sense of fashion or something like that. Otherwise, the creators said they didn't solely base it on any real country. However, when creating the show, the creators must've had to use at least one country as a starting point.
that's why i think the creators might've borrowed elements from their own country's history to form the outer framework of the HBE. Britain by no doubt was a big inspiration on the creation of the HBE. But Japan seems to offer as much, or maybe even more inspiration. here's a link to why i think so: http://codegeass.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Holy_Britannian_Empire#Other_inspirations_for_the_Holy_Britannian_Empire.3F |
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damien007
 Posts: 180 |
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Didn't we already have a rigorous debate about this in the polls thread, in which we already came to a standstill. I argued that the HBE was solely an extension of the BE (British Empire / Britannia),that any other comparisons to other countries where mere coincidence ,that the creators has said there were no intended comparisons and that anyone saying otherwise was just wildly speculating. And you disagreed. Id post the link to that thread I which we discussed pretty much everything that could be said about the issue but I'm lazy.
Found it: animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=159951 |
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kaiser11492
Posts: 164 |
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think about it. doesn't seem logical that the creators would take things from their OWN country's history due to the fact they are familiar with it? i said in the beginning of this thread that the creators weren't pointing to any one country. still doesn't mean they borrowed from real life. besides, this comparison is more specific. did you read the explanation on the link?
[EDIT: No need to quote the only person that's replied to you thus far. Only quote people if there are a) a lot to single out from, or b) if you're quoting specific parts of their post that you'd like to address. And never quote an entire post. It's sloppy and fuglifies the thread. Thanks. -TK] |
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JaffaOrange
 Posts: 260 |
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I was always under the impression that the Holy Britannian Empire in Code Geass was a thinly veiled United States of America.
I mean, the whole history of why the Britannian empire's homeland was North America instead of the British Isles felt really contrived. |
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damien007
Posts: 180 |
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See I still don’t get why people immediately jump to this conclusion. I really don’t get it, can you explain your reasoning behind this. The creators need the British Empire to maintain its power and separate it from the other european powers. The most effective way to do that was to just have the British Empire change its power base to North America. I don’t get why people find that so hard to accept. Culturally and politically the Holy British Empire is the same as the British Empire. Do people just think it is too obvious? Do they think there has to be some hidden meaning somewhere? Can they just not accept that the US isn't centre of the show?
to qoute lelouch himself: Lelouch Lamperouge: I do not wish to be in your debt. However, I have a question. What does it mean to Japanese? A nation. Suzaku Kururugi: What? Lelouch: It is language, territory, bloodlines? Suzaku: No, that is not it. It is in the heart. Lelouch: Then we are in agreement. A feeling within, of belonging, diginity, pride, the culture is carried in the heart. You are Japanese no matter where you are. Just take that and apply it to the British people. As to why they chose the British Empire, I believe the creators were quoted in saying it had something to do with clothing. People have asked them if they British Empire was meant to be a metaphor for the US and they've been quoted as being surprised that people even thought that. Like i said this was all talked about in the previous thread for anyone who cares to reread it. [EDIT: You, too. Read what I said to kaiser. -TK] |
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Anymouse
 Posts: 685 |
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Maybe it's just supposed to be a colonial empire in general. The Germans tried to suppress native cultures and languages in places like Poland.
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kaiser11492
Posts: 164 |
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The USA, as I proposed in another thread, is seemingly a good candidate for the HBE. Britain is also another great candidate. However, after rethinking everything, I suddenly found there were more similarities between the HBE and Imperial Japan. Britain, the USA, and Imperial Japan were all expansionist powers, trying to maintain their power through direct or indirect influence. But Imperial Japan has certain similarities with the HBE that Britain or the USA doesn't have. the link i made in my first post shows what these specific similarities are.
I am not proposing that the USA is the HBE in this thread. I am trying to show connections with Imperial Japan and the HBE. I am fully aware that the creators were surprised by the interpretation of the fans. I know they chose Britain because of its fashion. But I see many specific similarities with Imperial Japan. Compared to Britain and the USA, Imperial Japan was to me more ruthless when it came to expanding their empire. [EDIT: Use the Edit button. Don't double post. -TK] |
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egoist
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Ever heard of the Portuguese Empire? It's pretty similar. What originally was a European empire switched the capital to an American country at some point. It was never explained why the capital of the Britannian Empire was the USA, but amongst many reasons, it could just be because England didn't want to be the priority target of an attack in a world at war, which would make perfect sense considering its size. Now what we have in Code Geass are 3 things: 1 - What the creator wanted the Empire to represent. Japan 2 - What people who over complicate things want it to represent. USA 3 - What people who just look at the obvious want it to represent. Great Britain Compared to when that thread was created, nowadays I don't really care. Let it represent whatever everyone wants it to represent. Even the Roman Empire or Soviet Union if they wish. |
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ArsenicSteel
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Wait, what? The creators want Japan to take over Japan and remove it's culture? I am more apt to believe that the HBE is a representation of most world domination oriented empires be it the British Empire, Imperial Japan, the Holy Roman Empire, or whatever. These domination oriented empires are completely interchangeable with the only differences being who's in charge and where their homeland is. However by the fact Britain was chosen as the namesake of the empire because the garb was visually pleasant to the creator. Easy? Overly simply? Yeah but sometimes the answer is as plain as the nose on your face. |
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Anymouse
Posts: 685 |
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But Britain was known to give the least amount of direct interference in it's possessions. Niue actually requested that Britain annex them to avoid colonization by Germany, France, or Japan.
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kaiser11492
Posts: 164 |
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if you go this link http://codegeass.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Holy_Britannian_Empire#Other_inspirations_for_the_Holy_Britannian_Empire.3F you will see why i think Imperial Japan (pre-1945) is the country they had the most influence on the creation of the HBE. the creators probably had a bunch of historical/current nations in their minds when coming up with the HBE. i'm just suggesting Imperial Japan was looked to more than the other countries in their minds. That would be logical because the creators, who are Japanese, would have no problem because it is their own history, and therefore they are more familiar with it. if Imperial Japan did have the most inspiration, then that would ironically make sense. by having Japan being forcefully culturally suppressed by the HBE, they can show sympathy for Japan while also recognizing it's past actions. |
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kaiser11492
Posts: 164 |
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that what i like about artwork, film, literature, etc. it's open for interpretation. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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Read that and I stand by my comment that the HBE is similar to most every other domination oriented civilization of the past. The items on that list are not unique to Imperial Japan or Britain. |
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damien007
Posts: 180 |
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Thank you this is my point exactly. While it is true that that there can be some similarities drawn between the HBE and the other empires they are not unique to that one empire. There are plenty of elements of the HBE that are unique to the BE such as Names, clothing, culture, historical figures, legends and to an extent the politics. What elements of the HBE are unique to the USA or Imperial Japan? I agree totally that there are some similarities between the HBE and other empires however the same similarities apply to any imperial empire. My only point is that HBE is clearly based on the BE and as far as I’m concerned this is an un-debatable fact confirmed by the creators. Any other similarities to other empire are purely conjecture and coincidences. Besides I’m pretty sure that when lelouch formed the USJ (United states of Japan) and rebelled against the HBE, that was meant to be a metaphor for the American revolution. Ignoring all the similarities, the name, the culture, and the statements of the creators, this should evidence enough to demonstrate that the HBE was a metaphor for BE and the USJ a metaphor for the USA. Edit: okay after reading that link i guess there are a few similarities between the HBE and Imperial Japan. However like I said most of those things can be said for many other Empires. there are clearly parts of the HBE that are unique to only the BE. |
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JaffaOrange
Posts: 260 |
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Over complicated? It's the simplest and most apparent representation (apart from, well, the British Empire). - Homeland based in North America - Occupation of Japan - Very militaristic - Invaded a country to acquire a valuable and limited resource; sakurarite/oil (not that I believe that the US invades countries just to steal its oil but someone always brings it up) I'm not saying that this was the thought that the creators had in mind or that the big baddies had to represent something. They probably could have been Lunarians or Atlantis come-again and still do its job. I'm just saying that the similarities are there. |
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