Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - Cartoon Panacea
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Sorrior
Posts: 79 |
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I just have to say in defense of some of us who prefer fansubs even over official things.For me at least it has to do with archiving purposes more than anything. I like to archive and have things i can go back to anytime and not have to worry about a server being down and so on. That said i DO however also buy anime and manga. I have EASILY over $35,000 worth of anime and manga. According to DVD aficionado i have 461 anime titles and my manga is just as bad if not infinitely worse.
So yeah some people DO buy even after downloading in fact i then decide whether i prefer the official or unofficial subs and then decide whether or not to keep the fansubs. Or alternatively i buy the US release as well as download the HD version if a US one doesn't exist. So yeah SOME of us downlaoders do support the industry. Though i also understand that alot don't just pointing out that at least some of us do. |
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Mike Hazama
 Posts: 45 |
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Well use Naruto and One Piece then. 
Last I checked Pokemon was still huge all over the globe and one of the biggest franchises ever. You don't exactly hear how super amazing Generator Rex or Avatar is or how it's a massive franchise around the world |
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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So very wrong. There's tons of anime that isn't simulcasted, and let's be honest, a lot of simulcasted anime have pretty poor subtitles, either inaccurate or plainly changing things around (Looking at you Persona 4 and Nichijou) so fansubs are still necessary to get a better translation for even simulcasted titles. Let alone shows which aren't even touched by Simulcasts. I mean.. was Madoka simulcasted? I can't recall, but if it wasn't that's a pretty big example. Magicial girl in general tends to get ignored by simulcasters.. Pretty Cure, Pretty Rhythm, Jewelpet. Still need fansubs for those. Also shows like Pocket Monster Best Wishes, Yu-Gi-Oh! ZeXal, and others which only have hackjob dubs here (or basically 4Kids stuff). Or even just shows that nobody bothers to simulcast like Daugher of 20 Faces, Detective Conan, Doraemon, Danball Senki, and tons others. You can't really simulcast every show a season, so fansubs are still needed quite a lot in this day and age. Also, if you want to count them, live-action shows like Super Sentai and Kamen Rider, or various J-Drama or the live action versions of anime. Also shows which came out in the 90s but never got fansubbed due to the internet being young. Digimon, Monster Farm, and so on. Old shows can get fansubbed too. Fansubbers are still a great necessity. I've even offered my services as a translator to groups for certain shows I'd like to see subbed, so I guess that paints a huge target on my head from people against fansubbing. If that's what it takes to share anime I love with people that don't get simulcasted, then so be it.
If those are you cartoons of choice, then I think Answerman is right.. the industry is in no shape to compete with anime. I don't think I've ever heard any notable amount of anime fans ever mention those two shows, in all honestly. I agree homogenized is probably the perfect word to use.. especially for comedy shows. Loud, annoying idiots yelling and doing stupid things.. that's like every cartoon on Cartoon Network I see when I flick pack it. Adventure Time is probably the worst of them all when I stopped to catch a few minutes of it. Tuff Puppy on Nickelodeon is also pretty bad. I've also noticed all these shows star guys and never girls. I can see why girls make up the majority of manga fans when there's no shows catering to them, in all honestly. Girl cartoons pretty much don't exist in the US. No way they're going to compete with magical girl fans. Sailor Moon's recent resurgence of manga sales show there's still audiences in the US for that As for action shows, well, a common complaint is they're all just superheroes, and they're all extremely toned down due to censorship and can't really do anything interesting. Young Justice and Generator Rex pretty much show superheroes do dominate. I guess there's Thundercats and Avatar, but, well, they're not all that unique or good either. I suppose 'generic fantasy' is right behind superheroes on the list, and I guess they seem unique when Marvel/DC/Other cartoons dominate the majority of action cartoons, but again, not really huge in the anime community. There's definitely a very small window of what you can make in the US. I just somehow doubt many anime fans are going to start turning to Thundercats, Young Justice, or Avatar, even if we limit it to the US fanbase only. |
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Tanteikingdomkey
 Posts: 2350 |
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My group focuses on underdone mystery anime and manga. we occasionally did new stuff such as night raid when it first came out, and psychic detective yakumo, and even kami-sama no memo-chou/ god's notebook/ mistranslation by sentai (we had subbed episode 1 before they picked it up and they screwed up the editing). however we generally focus on kindaichi shonen no jikembo and Detective Academy Q (live action and manga).
I will also say that I own a crunchyroll membership. which I bought because they had a lot of simulcast that I loved and they actually did good streaming simulcast, not perfect but still strong. one of the things that crunchyroll does right is that they have a way for you to say X at XX:XX in episode X of series X is wrong. this along with getting better ex subers... opps I mean companies to work for them. another company that is getting better is sentai, they finally seem to get the idea of a simulcast, however their player leaves much to be desired in the don't crash on me department. and their editing can still be far worse then crunchyrolls. Editing is a major reason why some subbers still do simulcasted shows. the other being for reasons, and the ALWAYS SO IMPORTANT I want to work on this show, so I will 
It used to be that typesetting was a major issue, and now the simulcast have picked up on the idea that idea and actually translate important signs, with crunchyroll even doing typesetting correctly with stylized fonts so that it fits with the image. a lot of HQ shows do not get simulcast, just look at gg and you will find, a majority of the top titles of the year that never got simulcast. Madoka, bento, garden of sinners. not to mention other shows like ano hana and bakuman 2. The worst simulcaster award has to go to Nico Nico though, thank the heavens fate/ zero was also on crunchyroll. because their video player fails on multiple levels, and their site used to be hard to navigate. comments do help make shows like guilty pleasure opps I meant guilty crown funny sometimes though. |
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EireformContinent
 Posts: 977 Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land) |
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Pokemon were created to be based on toys and gadgets. I don't see how should it be paired with shows not meant to become toy advertisement. |
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13239 |
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Very nice answer for the first question, Brian.
In regards to subbers and rippers: I freely admit to using the services of both. Since I live in Canada most streaming shows are not available to me so I have no other means of watching them. On top of that having a copy on my hard drive makes it easier to go back and rewatch things without having to deal with load times and using bandwidth. That said I do actively buy series I like on DVD so I don't particularly feel guilty about this. However a lot of shows that get streamed don't recieve a DVD release unfortunately. |
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TitanXL
Posts: 4036 |
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Wow, I didn't realize how many weren't simulcasted. Not even Bakuman 2, which the manga has a US release? Surprising. Ano Hana is also a shame to hear no one simulcasted.
And? About the only western cartoon I'd watch is probably Beast Wars, which was meant to sell toys. Despite it being a commercial, it still manages to tell a 'war story' better than any other American cartoon I've seen, since it actually felt like a war and the characters doing war-like things. And spoiler[Dinobot and Depthcharge's deaths] were handled so much better than any other American cartoon I can think of, mainly since they didn't beat around a bush like every other cartoon does. Granted, they were robots, but still, expecting more is a bit unrealistic due to censorship Whether a show is meant to sell toys or not doesn't mean much on how good it is or where it should be placed. Technically speaking, it's quite impressive you have a series like Diamond & Pearl which spans 191 episodes, with various openings and endings which they actually consciously change with each plot or cast revelation, planned out character and plot developments, wonderful background music, as well as, yes, a great toyline, which only helps shows as far as I'm concerned. The soundtrack CD set has over 100 great tracks, plus you got image songs (Hikari's being my favorite, though the Satoshi + Hikari duet was cute too) and other things they clearly put a lot of effort into. So I think just dismissing it as "Oh, toy show, doesn't belong" does it a great injustice. Let alone in comparison to a show you can clearly see the creators just churned out in Adobe Flash over a weekend. Just because that one isn't based on a toyline doesn't suddenly make it better. I'd rather watch Pocket Monsters over the stuff I see on CN and Nick, and it's easy to say it objectively has a lot more quality and effort put into it than anything else on those channels. Not to mention it was big enough to birth and popularize a new genre worldwide. Based on a toy line or not doesn't discredit that achievement the series deserves. If the show wasn't popular and it died and faded away while the toys lived on that'd be one thing (sorry, Monster Farm...) but that's not the case here. |
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Haterater
 Posts: 1728 |
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TitanXL/Mike Hazama/Same Person
The problem is that shows who have extra "stuff" like toys and video games have an advantage over shows that don't. Avatar didn't really have a toyline, so no extra audience there. Shows like Yu-Gi-Oh!, My Little Pony, Pokemon, Beast Wars, etc have the potential to gain more fans from those who like those toys and stuff. Now, if Pokemon started off with no ties to things like video games and "stuff," would it be popular based on just the merits of the show? Yes, the stuff about the show with good characterization is wonderful and nice to see in cartoons, but the problem is that if it tanks, then we loose a show that tries something different. And I think that's the problem in general these days, not just for animation. Companies want things to sell to. Sailor Moon manga has the nostalgia factor along with the anime, so I can see why its doing well. But can a new magical girl manga with no ties succeed? That's the concern, and I'm sure that's what the business people are sadly thinking about. All what sells, creativity be damned. |
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Darkmagick
 SubscriberPosts: 471 |
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At the risk of sounding like an unobservant idiot, I have to ask...Where is this way to comment? I've seen it mentioned before, but I've never been able to find it... 
(It's annoying because I occasionally do notice things...) |
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RestLessone
 Posts: 1426 Location: New York |
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It'd like to note that there are series that deal with actual human death, sometimes to a greater degree than that. For instance, take a recent episode of Young Justice. spoiler[The basic plot revolved around a psychopath that killed his sister with a dagger and buried here in his backyard, all in order to become "pure" and rid himself of human weaknesses. They don't attempt to hide it; the guy has several taxidermy animals in his house, the character indicates he's proud of killing her her, and the rudimentary grave is given focus.] Not that the majority of US cartoons are like this, but there's more than just Beast Wars. |
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RyanSaotome
 Posts: 4210 Location: Towson, Maryland |
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Fansubbing is important to give Crunchy some competition. Crunchy wouldn't have made many of the improvements they have done in the last year (upping bitrate, better sub quality, no more hard subs) if they weren't being pressured by fansubs doing their shows better. Fansubs might not help companies like Crunchy, but its important for the customers to get the best quality service.
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Lynx Amali
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Call me when Shin Mazinger Shougeki! Z-Hen, Dancougar Nova or Nanoha StrikerS get R1 releases and then I'll delete my fansubs.
OH WAIT. Alot of good questions once again. It's not the end of the industry. It's just adapting. I'll be sad to see when DVDs and Blu-Ray go as well, I like to have physical copies and I get dinged for internet use so streaming isn't really viable.
Don't forget Layzner and L-Gaim! All and all, fansubs for older shows that AREN'T licensed are fine. Anything that has been licensed or has a current planned release should sort of be off limits. Rippers however, do not discriminate. They will rip whatever they please. Rather sad really. |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2665 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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This is like when I mentioned on Twitter that mecha doesn't sell as much, but should still be brought out every once in a while, and I was told that mecha does sell... Because Eva & Robotech, and Gundam to a point, sell. I had to point out quickly that if mecha does in fact sell over here, then we should be getting a lot of more of it. Instead, the only mecha we got within the past year were seemingly Gundam and Mazinkaiser SKL. Eva and Robotech sell because of reasons that don't really involve them being mech titles, even though that does contribute to a point.
Trust me, I didn't forget Layzner & L-Gaim, I just wanted to show off a small portion of the mech anime that has been given fansubs within the past couple of years. To list them all would take too long. As for rippers, the only ones I can condone to a point are the ones that rip from Chinese bootleg DVDs. If there's one group that really doesn't need support it's the bootleggers. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6900 Location: Kazune City |
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And then there's the streaming videos at sites like Funi/Nico/Funico/TAN, which are hardsubbed and thus require tedious manual OCR or transcription work to be usable. |
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enurtsol
 Posts: 14886 |
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The advantage is for Crunchyroll and the original Japanese producers to get income out of it even if just ads, like TV programs.
But would ya have sympathy if possibly the Japanese anime industry itself make stupid decisions and run itself into the ground? 
For example, they can only rely on expensive physical media for so long. Eventually, everybody will move on from Blu-rays into whatever new tech comes next. What if that next tech doesn't rely on expensive media? In such crunch, they'd need to be wise about producing a new business model.
In our film studies, IIRC there was a book called "Aesthetics in Animation," if you're interested. Regarding comics, there's of course "Understanding Comics" by Scott McCloud.
There is honor among thieves.
That's where the Fansub Code of Ethics came from, after all.
Also released by Media Blasters, bless their soul.
And when they catch on, they really catch on, like the popularity of Spongebob awhile back, which that and pro wrestling battling for top spot of cable TV. |
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