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Forum - View topicConfused. A cartoon is the same isn't it?
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Pleroma
 Posts: 443 Location: Eromanga island |
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Boondocks, Family Guy, South Park, ATHQ, Invader Zim, etc are all great, but the fact remains that they are comedies. There is also the fact that the extremely few non-comedy American animations are still mostly targeted at children and most annoying of all are digustingly episodic.
Anime gives us a story to follow, it (usually) gives us decent dramatic writing and covers damn near every imaginable topic. American animation just can't match up to that, and not by some genetic inabily but simple lack of wilingness to do so. If an American studio decided to make a serious, mature series, covering some interesting subject and actually bothered hiring proffesional writers and actors and then demanded a decent timeslot for their show then I could say that there are steps being taken in the right direction. Hell, make an animated movie for the 16+ demographic if a series is too hard. But the fact is that this has not happened, so evidently the local industry is quite happy trailling woefully behind and have no desire to actually do something to help animation grow as a medium in the US. |
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The Frankman
 Posts: 1160 Location: Binary Culture HQ |
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I don't see anything wrong with them being comedies AS LONG AS they contain a serious moral/point that gets across. And to say some of the series I named as comedies are a little off (Boondocks? Hey Arnold? Doug?). But if you want "meatier" series that weren't full of the ha-ha, there have been The Real Adventures of Jonny Quest, Samurai Jack, King of the Hill, Batman: TAS (like I said before), X-Men (early 90s), Batman-Superman Adventures (late 90s), Spider-Man (mid-late 90s), Batman Beyond, Justice League: Unlimited, and the like. Moviewise there have been Titan: A.E., Atlantis and classic Disney like Anastasia. True, it's harder to find in America but the formula is working in America because they're making millions, and if it doesn't sell they won't continue it. Like I said earlier the culture and perception is different in different countries, plus Japan churns out more animation monthly a.k.a mo' different products hit the market.
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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I don't deny that what you say is true. BUT...I would like to see some American animation targeted to/for adults that consist of something more than bodily function and sex jokes. Such as, for example, an animated Grey's Anatomy, Desperate Housewives, Law & Order, CSI, or House. Animate something like those, I guarantee you I WILL WATCH!!! American animators will not do that. Which is disappointing because if the series is marketed correctly, it could do quite well. |
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Shonen Bat
 Posts: 382 |
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I get really mad when these idiots say "Animation is for little kids." Then wouldn't that mean Avatar should be only for kids (I don't like Avatar to be honest it's just the best example I have) even though there are teens and adults that like it too? I mean if every animated show was "4kids(Get the pun^^?)" then we would have 2nd graders out there acting like Cartman and calling jewish kids "no good stinking jews". Besides most anime is usually better than the shows we have in the US. Anime doesn't try to dumb kids down (Except for what 4kids licenses) with pointless fart jokes and jokes about bodily humor. Nowadays this is basically in the script for every kids' show out there:
Guy1:Hey there Guy 2 Guy2:Hey there guy 1 Guy1:*Farts* Guy2:Guy 2 did you fart? Guy1:Why yes I did Guy 1 Then they start laughing and farting for like 22 minutes until the show ends. Boy that sounds like a whole episode of Spongebob. The only shows I really like that are from the US are South Park, The Boondocks, ATHF, and Sealab. Family Guy was funny for awhile but then I realized it was WAYYYYYYYY to much like the Simpsons. I'd just like to conclude that most anime shows are much more intelligent(Monster, Cowboy Bebop, etc.) than the shows here and that I think the reason most people hate anime beacuse they think anime is nerdy (Then so should Rap and Disney since there are people out there that know too much 'bout that stuff too) or "The legal way to beat off to an eight year old girl". (Like there's any Chiyo hentai out there.). That concludes my rant. |
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Pleroma
Posts: 443 Location: Eromanga island |
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LOL, sorry but this all was still targeted at kids and younger teens at best. I will admit the x-men series did a pretty good job but the rest was not in any way "mature." The idea is to make something that was absolutely clearly aimed at adults and older teens. Nothing happens without a first step, to say it would not be profitable without even trying is folly and will just insure that it never happens as obviously there will never be a precedent if everyone is too afraid to take the risk. I mean c'mon, every season there are dozens of shows on network TV alone that are so absolutely horrid they stink up the whole time-block before their swift cancellation. Surely SOMEBODY could put some care and money into a quality animated story and tell Americans "Look! its animated, its good, its not for kids and its not from some other country!" |
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Mercury Crusader
 Posts: 67 |
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Number 4 on that list is probably going to be the big one. As much a fan as I am of anime, whenever I hear fans talk about it or whatnot, they come off as PRETENTIOUS ANIME SUPERFAN and will defend to the death the honor of their preferred form of entertainment with horribly exaggerated claims ("NOT KIDS STUFF!") about maturity or deep calculating stories or what-have-you. Of course, PRETENTIOUS ANIME SUPERFAN will often argue with another PRETENTIOUS ANIME SUPERFAN because of some minor preference as to how to watch anime, such as your "dub vs. sub" arguements or whether or not Hideaki Anno is a genius or just really lazy. I don't talk much on these forums because there are those that do come off as being PRETENTIOUS ANIME SUPERFANS as well as everywhere on the internet that has some kind of anime message board (give or take ADTRW, though everyone hates that place), and because of said PRETENTIOUS ANIME SUPERFANS, I can justify the opinions of those that really don't like anime. The same can be applied to pretty much any of the "geeky" hobbies and interests, really. I don't care much if people like or hate anime, I still watch it. I just don't flaunt it like I'm said PRETENTIOUS ANIME SUPERFAN is all. That's all I have.
Oh god... If you think there isn't, then you are a better man than I am. The internet is a godawful place. |
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The Frankman
Posts: 1160 Location: Binary Culture HQ |
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But then factor in dodging FCC, Standards and Practices, and other factors (advertising). I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool to do, but using real-life characters can be more profitable without the nasty factor of overcoming a negative animation perception, and notice I said animation and not Japanese anime (which is its own hurdle). Fact is it's been done before albeit on a smaller scale: remember Fish Police? Capitol Critters? Even the legendary Batman: TAS actually debuted Sunday 7 PM, PRIMETIME on FOX's "Action Network" across from 60 Minutes in '92. It aired for awhile at that spot and to this day is the only animation to debut primetime on a network.
Once again, quoted for truth because I've talked with narrowminded people like this a lot. |
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jaybug39
 Posts: 552 Location: Oregon, Is it FOOTBALL yet? |
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@ rancorous, man I hope that is what they are trying to do, but is that what fans a taking away from watching? Or do some think it ok to be like fry, either Fry?
Could you imagine an anime where the heroes are living like pigs? That they have no ambition to do anything other than what they are doing now? |
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b214
 Posts: 142 Location: Connecticut |
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Wouldn't that anime be super milk chan, lol. Other than that, i can't think of a single anime. Most of my friends like anime, but decide to put it on the bottom of their entertainment list. It seems though that a lot of people are just plain ignorant of what it is or the fact that it exists |
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The Frankman
Posts: 1160 Location: Binary Culture HQ |
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You're missing the point. It doesn't matter sometimes who the shows were initially targeted for, it's who ends up watching them. The Tick? Cancelled during its initial SM run found a home for years due to it's high 18-49 demo ratings. Dr. Katz for some reason was thought as a kids' show at one time, even look at its spiritual successor Home Movies. I'm not going to repost every animation I listed because I think they speak for themselves, but a GOLDEN example of this was: 
The comic fans worshipped this series and so did the older crowd for good reason: high budget, classic storyline that dealt with more mature themes, reinvented characters that emphatized drama, and music straight out of Danny Elfman's book.
Call me crazy, but remove "anime" and insert "American animation" there and the same could be true, notably among a large part of the JA fandom contingent. The sweet irony is that ignorance itself is no bigot, and many people don't want to look for quality anything unless its within their sight. |
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Cloe
Moderator
 Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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Jesus, I know I say this EVERY TIME this debate comes up, and I don't even know why I bother because nobody ever seems to listen, but there is more to American animation than what is on TV. American animation naysayers, go and watch some Bill Plympton or Caroline Leaf or Robert Breer or George Griffin or a number of other American animators who have collectively put out hundreds upon hundreds of mature animations and then say there's no American animation aimed at adults.
As for the matter at hand, I'm a fan of animation worldwide, no matter what country it originates from. I appreciate each piece for what it is, and nothing more. It's silly to do otherwise. I enjoy stuff like Darkness, Light, Darkness AND Utena, even though they're polar opposites. I like Kujira no Chouyaku AND The Simpsons (likewise). Animation is animation. P.S. Frankman, Anastasia was animated at Fox, not Disney. |
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epixeltwin
 Posts: 325 Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada |
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Geez, this is america, whatchathink? In a country presided by George Bush, home of a million Wal-Marts and with a condescendent and ignorant attitude towards non-american culture, what did you expect? People are people and of course there will be many dumb ones among them. And there will be countless sheep among them who follow the barbaric leader of the horde. And they'll give you that crap. Just learn how to take it. The OMGDBZSUCKSPOKEMONIS4KIDS phenomenon is the only thing that most people can perceive. Sticking to your own ignorance is always the easiest then. 1929 Krach provoked by Neo-Liberalism anyone? WW2 anyone? Irak invasion anyone? Of course my comparisons go too far but they have somewhat of a basis. |
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Mercury Crusader
Posts: 67 |
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I'm sorry, but what does pretentious sociopolitical commentary have to do with anime? EDIT: I only posted this because this sounds more like a random political soapbox stand than one that actually has anything to do with the topic at hand. Last edited by Mercury Crusader on Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:10 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Vortextk
 Posts: 892 Location: Orlando, Fl |
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A cartoon is a cartoon I say.
I watched TONS of american cartoons as a kid and loved them. I watch a good deal of anime now and love them as well. Being that 80-90% of the anime I watch would be full of a bit too mature themes/fly over my head if I were 10 again, it's the only real reason I've switched. I was thinking about Dexter's laboratory the other day and how I watched it so often. I still wouldn't mind now and would probably find it funny as I did before, it just wouldn't hold anything more to me and that's why I watch anime. For whatever it's worth, I got ahold of all the gargoyle episodes and plan to watch them. I also want to watch the early 90's animated batman episodes because both were good then and I believe equally good now. |
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Steventheeunuch
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I dunno, but I'm not entirely sure if I should listen to someone who talks about the Irak Invasion. |
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