Forum - View topicANN Book Club -- Serial Experiments Lain.
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Aromatic Grass
 Posts: 2424 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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Finally got around to episode 7 just now.
I know you already told me this, but  !
Results of the experiment + Psi energy + evolution of humanity + spoiler for later events = possibly this has to do with Lain.  From what BE said he might have accidentally learned, this makes me fairly sure that Lain is a godlike being, but that was slowly becoming more of a thought after seeing what's happened these past three episodes anyway. What you said about the experiments, though, added with the fact that Lain really doesn't know her "family," makes me wonder if she might have taken part in some experiment herself. (I'm pretty sure we talked about this possibility earlier, but it seems more evident to me now. Though I could still be wrong.)
Interesting that the Knights are really starting to show up literally. I assume they'll be taking more action this time, as they've already dealt with this guy who became too interested. I lulzed when I saw "MacUser" pop up on Nezumi's screen. That's me! 
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3876 Location: New York state. |
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The reason I surmised the evolution theory was because in a few ways, there were aspects of Lain I seen from an American movie I seen in high school called Powder. It was about a young boy who gained the next step of evolution after his mother died giving birth to him when struck by lightning. He finds himself disconnected from society because of his gifts just like in the same way Lain feels disconnected from her surroundings in the real world and increasingly uses the Wired as her escape to delve into the mysteries concerning the Knights and her own origins. But yeah, I'm assuming Lain might have been connected to Kids in some way and she doesn't know it herself. But at this point, I'm not gonna say anything else. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Nezumi was who? I'm having a tough time remembering anyones name in the series if they aren't mentioned at least once an episode. |
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Murasakisuishou
 Posts: 1469 Location: NE Ohio |
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Nezumi was the guy wandering around with the visor over his face and seeing in what looked somewhat like heat vision - he kept begging the Knights to let him join, and Lain called him a moron. I don't think he was mentioned by name, even, but he's credited under "Nezumi". |
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Aromatic Grass
Posts: 2424 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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Sorry, guys! Forgot to update last night. Here's July 22-28:
Episode 8 -- "Rumors" Episode 9 -- "Protocol" Episode 10 -- "Love" You can begin at any time if you haven't already. Will watch these myself asap, although I do plan to catch up with some spring series today. Since BE spoiled himself, I'm pretty much the only one who has no clue what's gonna happen, though I have a few guesses. Let's just wait and see. 
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Jedi General
 Posts: 2485 Location: Tucson, AZ |
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Don't forget about me! I also don't have a clue. 
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Aromatic Grass
Posts: 2424 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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Sorry! I knew I'd forget someone when I wrote that. =p 'Kay, guys, both me and JG don't have a clue.
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Ggultra2764
Subscriber Posts: 3876 Location: New York state. |
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About time we got up to this point. Now I can let loose on my thoughts regarding major aspects of the plot like the wild Lain and the mysterious voice.
First off, the wild Lain. My earlier thoughts regarding her connection to the Knights appear confirmed considering her actions with Arisu's secret in episode 8. Considering what we've learned about Lain these past several episodes, the wild Lain has to be a copy of Lain created by the Knights for the purpose of manipulating the real Lain to believe that her life in the real world will bring her nothing but misery because of her presence causing problems for others. So, the Knights go after the closest human bond Lain has at this point: her friendship with Arisu. Lain's connection to her family was a fabrication, so her friendship with Arisu was the only real human interaction that she had. Take that away and Lain's left without any reason to continue lingering in the real world. And that brings us to our next new character: the self-proclaimed Deus of the Wired, Masami Eiri. Seems he manipulated the Knights to do his bidding for his plans revolving around KIDS and the Schumann effect. Here we have a guy who chose a path of evolution by means of suicide thanks to his tampering of the divide between the real world and the Wired. His plot kind of reminds me of Eva spoiler[when SEELE pressed forward with the Human Instrumentality Project. Both SEELE and Eiri seem to think mankind can't evolve any further in their present states believing that humanity has to come together and form a complete being to evolve further.] In Eiri's case, he is manipulating children by having them become pure energy and create a complete network by which to link together their thoughts. He sees Lain as a tool for his plans because her very existence is causing the real world and Wired to blur together. Through this confusion, Eiri hopes to bring in more people to the Wired by undergoing his method of evolution. This does seem to explain why Chisa killed herself at the start of the series as well. Well, these are my two major points for discussion. Feel free to elaborate on anything else. |
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BrothersElric
 Posts: 1996 |
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You're SO mean!! 
Well, technically I'm not all that sure as to what's going to happen, since I only know what it is instead of how it happens. (as once again, JG can attest to ) So yeah, I'm about as in the dark as you fellas, even if I did spoil myself.
Anyways, no clue when I'm going to watch the episodes. More than likely this is going to be one of my only times being able to even post in the anime thread at all, or even maybe ANN altogether for that matter, nonetheless this thread. But I'll make sure to see if I can find time for them, and if I'll aslo make sure if I can find time to post around here this week to post my thoughts on them. |
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Aromatic Grass
Posts: 2424 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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Golly, has it been crazy lately! Fortunately for me I have only one day of class left. I broke my own promise and didn't even bother to catch up with anything leftover from the spring season.
Anyway, onto Lain episodes 8 and 9. Will try to catch 10 later, possibly tomorrow. These episodes seem much shorter than they really are because they just fly by, but the "heaviness" of each episode makes up for it in the end.
Eight sure was weird and expanded a lot on Lain's other personality(ies). I didn't think of the Knights connection until Lain mentioned them when she realized there were so many duplicates of her online. I'll admit I certainly didn't see that coming. The Knights'll do anything to get Lain to leave herself and join the Wired. Though it seems there's more evidence of the Wired melding into the real world at the end when Lain's "duplicate" walked right out of her, and earlier when she reacted negatively to all of those rumors and seemed to create some kind of energy force from the Wired into the real world. And the duplicate idea is another thing you can easily connect to this world and the Internet. Obviously the rumors, too. I was a little worried about Lain's relationship with Alice there, until Lain deleted everyone's memories of seeing these duplicates of herself online. "God" told her she was born able to do this, so there's more hints at who she may really be and what she can do. I found it surprising that she could easily control their memories in the real world and wondered how that was possible, then I realized it must also be related to the Wired and real world merging more and more. As for 9... what? Um, putting all that other stuff aside, the Knights sent Lain a memory chip that, if installed, would've messed with her memories. And then we see an old memory of her entering into the "family" which was also obviously messed with. I thought it was strange when her dad said something along the lines of "It's almost over," as if to further imply that this is all part of an experiment. I mean, we already know that they aren't her real parents and all. I don't even want to begin on the other stuff, but it led to a meeting between Lain and Eiri Masami (though he looks a little different -- kinda shamanic). Since I haven't watched 10 yet, I tried not to read any spoilers regarding him, but I think it's safe to assume that he's the so-called "God" floating around the Wired. More on that when I watch 10 myself. Of all that strange information thrown at us, I did take special notice of one of the later parts when the idea of everyone on earth being connected together like parts of the brain was introduced. And this would be the Wired? |
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BrothersElric
Posts: 1996 |
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Well despite being as busy as I have this past week, I was able to fit in one episode a day between Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, so I guess I'm all set then.
 I was kind of too busy to read up on Ggultra's post before I watched them though, so I kind of winged it with these ones. Which probably was extremely dangerous in my ability to understand what the heck is going on in this seres.
So yeah, the episodes. Episode 8, actually, I believe was the easiest for me to understand out of all 3 of these. I guess I kind of understand now what all you guys mean by "Lain can be many multiple places at the same time." I actually hadn't considered the possibility of the Knights being the ones who created Lain's different personalities for whatever reasons, that was kind of interesting, if pretty disturbing at the same time. Just the idea of another her causing all that mischief without her even knowing about makes me shudder. Especially how it cost her all her friends, especially her closest one. I think as far as all 3 of these episodes as a whole goes though, I was able to follow it just fine all the way up to where the other Lain walks right out of her body. I totally had no clue what that was all about..... and it didn't get much better from that point on..... And then we move on to episode 9..... Wow..... TOTALLY went right over my head, I swear I could not make any sense of that episode whatsoever....... I pretty much got the basic idea that this was kind of a "history lesson" episode, talking about how the wired came into being and whatnot (though I was even totally lost about what that was all about until a certain point....) and I eventually got that this Masami Eiri character who was dismissed by Tachibana Labs and eventually was found dead by the train tracks was the eventual "god of the wired" and that person at the very end of the episode was him, but other than that, I just couldn't make any sense of that episode whatsoever. The little alien dude or whatever that was that showed up at Lain's door, the other her being brought up to her room, all the talk about what the Psyc Chip has to do with anything, I just didn't get any of it. Did I leave anything else out? I did kind of understand what her parents were talking about when they said "it's almost over" though, basically confirming the experiments and whatnot. But even it, along with everything else that wasn't a history lesson on the Wired, I think I personally saw as kind of a setup episode. Episode 10 I swear didn't make any more sense out of episode 9 at all though..... but it on it's own made a lot more sense that 9 did. I think this is the episode that revealed the "spoiler" I said I spoiled myself with by reading the back of the box. If that's the case though, yeah, it didn't execute it as much of a spoiler at all, in fact I got more of a "naturally you should have assumed this already" feel from it. Which quite frankly makes me feel kind of stupid. I swear I still had kind of a hard time understanding what people in that episode were talking about though. What Lain's dad was talking about, pretty much everything Eiri was telling her, what those MIB guys were saying to her, all this talk about "I love you Lain" or whatever, I don't know. I pretty much get the basic idea, based off of what the back of the box said, that she was created by Eiri (the god of the Wired, as we all know by now ) but I can't seem to get a full grasp of anything that goes deeper than that for some reason......
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Hm. I agree that the wild Lain* is a fabrication to provide a shower of misery, though it should be mentioned that the Knights likely made her at Eiri's will (or perhaps Eiri himself; whoever did is not really important). Why would he do that? It'll become obvious in the next volume, though it's pretty obvious that he wants to stave off any personal contact for Lain in the real world. *This is revealed to be the same Lain we see in Cyberia during the beginning of episode two. In effect, there are two Lains: the reserved and anti-social one we see in the real world that turns demanding and short-tempered in the Wired (Lain A), and the Lain created by the Knights/Masami Eiri that is ruins the others reputation in both worlds (Lain B). (I also thought the line, "I'm committing suicide," when Lain A strangles Lain B is pretty funny. Nice black humor.)
A couple of random notes about that: - Konaka actually didn't view Evangelion until after episode four of lain. Now, I don't know if I'm the only one who holds this view, but there is a slight yet noticeable tonal difference between four and five; wouldn't be surprised if Konaka came away affected from that series and its film. - Regardless of the above point, it's also obvious that Konaka had laid the groundwork for this as early as episode one. It's definitely a Jung-inspired concept. Also, a couple other aspects that I feel are worthy of noting: - Back in episode five, Mika completely lost it. It's heavily implied that the Knights got to her for their own ends, as stated previously. Just a bit more visual evidence in that direction that I have yet to see mentioned: during the middle of the episode, Mika finds herself isolated and there's an emblem surrounding her. Two episodes later, we discover that that is the sign of the Knights. - The need for human social contact. Lain has been slowly deprived of this as the series goes on. This will come to the forefront in the last volume, and proves as equally important in other yoshitoshi ABe series: Haibane Renmei and Texhnolyze. For lain, specifically, there's a dichotomy between that which is sterile (the lack of passion in the sexual relations that JesuOtaku noted; the falseness of Lain's family; detached relationships in the world of the wired; et cetera) and that which is warm (for Lain, this has only come from her friendship with Alice). Won't say anymore until the series finishes.
Yes!
Considering we're shown the Men in Black pushing her in, and then Yasuo showing her the room (well before it had been transformed into something out of 80s sci-fi), there's more to it than that.
Yes. It's an odd line of thought (establishing the possibility of constant human connectivity by way of the human tendency to indulge in conspiracies), but the content definitely fits the Jung overtones.
Identity crisis after the reset.
That'll be mirrored in an upcoming episode. Not sure what you're confused about with the other stuff, though.
Specifically, what are you not understanding? Thought it's pretty straightforward (even though I have an advantage of having seen it two times prior). |
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BrothersElric
Posts: 1996 |
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*raises hand* That was me, I took note of that! I don't know how many pages back, but it was sometime when we were discussing the last volume. You must have missed it or something, I don't know, but I did indeed catch that one.
Heh, that doesn't help out much.
Heh, pretty much, well, everything. I agree that it certainly seemed straight forward, but for some reason I just couldn't make sense of what anyone was talking about. Like I couldn't seem to connect any of it to anything that I knew about the series up to that point. Plus that and it seemed like there was a whole lot of depth to the simple idea of Lain being something that Eiri created, but I just couldn't seem to grasp any of it. Perhaps all of this is connected moreso to things I'll know about the series in latter episodes than in what I know about it already? That's kind of what I get the feeling of with what you explained about episode 9 as well, that we'll find out more about what that means latter. Hence why I was saying it felt more like a setup episode for future events. I don't know........
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Ggultra2764
Subscriber Posts: 3876 Location: New York state. |
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Who's Konaka? I was only pointing that out as a connection. I'm not too familiar with much of the behind-the-scenes work of SEL other than Yoshitoshi Abe's involvement with the character design concepts for Lain. Much of what I elaborate on is based on my own personal viewing of the series and Masami Eiri's scheme just reminded me of what I seen from Eva. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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When a person is gone for a few weeks from a forum, they may tend to skim a bit.
Uh, alright. I don't have a completely concrete answer, but basically the persona that Lain wants to present to her friends (particularly Alice) isn't what she wants to show and is thusly falsified because of her resetting their memories.
The plot itself is very literal, and taking it at face-value is the first step when analyzing practically all works of fiction (by my mark, at least). Lain is essentially software created by Masami Eiri. In that first conversation they switch roles after only a few lines of dialogue. Eiri explains to Lain that he abandoned his physical body and inserted his memories, emotions, etc. into the Wired. In a sense, he can live there forever, free of boundaries of the real world and act as a sort of god. Yasuo is basically saying good-bye to Lain, letting her know that the experiment is over, that the act of "playing house" is at an end. He explains that the purpose of Lain's existence has always been to be able to freely connect with others in the Wired (his knowledge supporting Eiri's earlier statements). The dialogue of the Men in Black is very straightforward, as well. They basically reveal that they (serving as proxies for Tachibana General Laboratories) had been after the Knights all along, and have now eliminated them/are disposing of them. It is their aim to keep the Wired and the real world separate, and to destroy what remains of Eiri's ambitions and presence. Then, Eiri reiterates what has been established before, that Lain's life has been a fake, that she has no personal relationships. He is attempting to pull her over to his side, and considering recent events, may very well succeed. ... Or will he? Might there be an element Eiri has left unaccounted for? Wait for the final volume. (As for the whole "I love you" bits... truthfully, I can't make heads or tales of that. I understand why Eiri says it, but am a bit confounded when it comes to comprehending Yasuo's and Karl's motivations.)
Much of episode nine is to give clarity for the thematic drive of the show ("Everyone is connected.") and for Eiri's ultimate ambition. Edit:
Chiaki J. Konaka One of the most inconsistent screenwriters in anime. At his lowest, he create the most, he creates utterly mediocre works. At his most brilliant, he can create works that are completely transcendent of the genre and are worthy of literary study. |
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