Forum - View topicWhy is Shinji hated so much?
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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"A little" might be a bit of an understatement here.
A teenage boy who is utterly lonely, has had no one show him any form of compassion, has a father who has tossed him aside, and lost his mother... Did I mention that in this case, he has to pilot a monstrous mechanism to fight against aliens, less the world be destroyed? I'm not saying complaining by any means is something to admire, but I can see enough reason for a character like him not to be happy in his situation. Plus, by the end of both the television series and the movie, he had spoiler[found a reason to live, to better himself, and the concurrent endings both show hope, subtle or not.] I suppose it's interesting, in it's own way, to think about what the majority of the audience wants when viewing any medium of entertainment in general. They yearn to see captivating, powerful people up on screen, displaying achievements, realistic or not, that they could probably only reach in their most imaginative fantasies. When they then encounter a character who acts more realistic, a character who doesn't always pull through and acts accordingly to the conventions that entertainment and expectations have set up, then those type of people are likely to become angry. They don't won't to see failure, to see the negativities of reality because entertainment is through and through the definitive form of escapism. To see a reminder of reality, to see something where they actually have to think and reconsider something in their own world is something that numerous people don't want to deal with. Taking all that into account, it's not surprising that the cast of Evangelion is so hated. It's either going to go against the wishes of the aforementioned crowd, or it's going to, in some manner, captivate those who want unconventional, realistic, and deep characters. ... Ah, sorry, I tend to ramble. |
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PantsGoblin
 SubscriberEncyclopedia Editor  Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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Ha ha. Hardly. I didn't dislike Evangelion mind you. I just disliked its characters. And ya, I didn't find them entertaining, because they just weren't. They were just annoying. But the actual attempt at such an unconventional cast boosted its ratings so that I didn't give it a horrible one. I think most of the characters in Rumbling Hearts are complete idiots. They're also failures. But it's actually one of my favorite anime, and partly because of that attempt at realism. |
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coffee
 Posts: 170 Location: Florida |
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What you've described holds true, I've seen a fair amount of people after seeing Misato down dubious quantities of beer label her as an escapist-alcoholic. Taken into context though, women who drink beer like her (granted not as much) are seen as "one of the guys" / independent in Japan. Without that knowledge people hate her for being spoiler[ addicted to alcohol and sex]. Shinji freezes up during actual battle a few times, which any normal person would do after facing up to a skyscraper sized alien, instead of just blasting it like the "ace pilots" of Gundam or other mech shows. The average viewer wants action, and that's one thing you don't get a lot of from Shinji. In turn he is disliked for that reason as well as the others I already mentioned. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Speaking in a broader case, my point still remains valid. Exceptions show up now and then. I do agree with you on all accounts, save for finding the cast of Evangelion to be "annoying" and "not entertaining," as well as finding Rumbling Hearts to be a favorite of mine... at all. Not to insult you or any of its fans, but that was, from what I can recall offhand, the only anime that I've watched which I became absolutely bored while watching the damn thing and hoped that all of the poorly-written melodrama would soon come to an end. If it gave me one good thing, it's that I learned to quit watching a series if I really don't care for it. |
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PantsGoblin
Subscriber Encyclopedia Editor Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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Not at all, I get that a lot so I'm used to it. I personally found it very interesting and was glued to the screen the whole time. Just different tastes. And I know my tastes are far from most mainstream anime fans (Ya, don't see much Galaxy Angel or Nurse Witch Komugi fans). Guess I'm getting off topic now... |
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selenta
Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Personally, I can see why people like Shinji in some small section of my mind; however, I most certainly do not fall into that category.
This subject comes up all the time, so here's my short reason why: I don't hate Shinji because he has flaws, I hate Shinji because he wallows in his misery and doesn't do a thing to change his situation. In my opinion, you have no right to complain about anything, unless you are actively trying to change the situation. Shinji doesn't do that, so I don't think he has the right to complain. I hate people like him in real life, so I hate it even more when they invade my relaxation time. The other aspect about his personality I don't like is how he just absolutely wallows in his misery. It may be realistic... and I tend to enjoy realistic things... but this is one personality flaw I absolutely cannot stand for (I'm also looking at you Shinn Asuka, you killed Destiny more than anything else). In general, I like flawed things, and really enjoy shows that tackle more realistic problems and situations. That's the main idea behind 'slife', and it's undeniably one of my favorite genres, but once again, things that are annoying in real life are twice as annoying in anime, because I am choosing to sit down and watch it. Honestly Hellkorn, I'm a little bothered that you seem to assume that people hate the Eva crowd because they are trying to escape from real life and don't want to be reminded of the real world. That certainly is a factor, as there are a great many people who watch anime as a way to relax and take the stress off by distracting themselves from their life, but I'd say it's more than a little naive to claim that's the biggest reason, particularly when you're not speaking from experience. |
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JoshuaStChristopher
 Posts: 351 |
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I got no problem with Shinji. He's just a 14-year old boy with emotional problems, which is at least more entertaining than Gundam SEED or some such. He's probably just hated so much because most boys who watch anime realize how much alike they and Shinji are, and don't want to admit that.
But ultimately, people probably hate most characters because they aren't Guy Shishio. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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I've only watched Evangelion once, and that was four or five years ago, so my memory of what happened is limited. With that said, the image I've retained of Shinji is a boy who mostly moped around and whined about his situation. Granted that his situation genuinely sucked, but I can't recall him ever trying to change himself for the better.
Also, as other people have noted, people hate their own weaknesses most, and about the time I watched the series is when I started suffering from depression but before I recognized it and got treatment, so that factor may also be affecting my judgement. |
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Raven Shinobi
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That's why I cut Shinji a lot of slack, he was just a kid who didn't want nor choose to pilot a fighting machine and protect the world, in the first episode he was hoping that his father wanted to see him only to find out that he was nothing but a mere object to him, if I were in his place in that same age, I would've surely hated to pilot that machine which was the only reason why my father wanted to see me after all that time. As I watched the show ,I found it pretty ruthless that the adults in that show had rested the fate of the entire world on the fragile shoulders of a kid, especially someone with issues as much as Shinji, sure, characters from other mecha shows do better, but Shinji felt the most realistic to me. Last edited by Raven Shinobi on Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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The truth (probably) is, Shinji Ikari is a flawed, struggling character that people hate to identify with because they don't want to admit their own flaws - Shinji Ikari is too human for a fictional story, and so people resent him.
I have a feeling that most people are totally aware of just how much like weak-willed Shinji they are and don't realize that given his circumstances, Shinji's actually pretty strong for most of his experiences - compare that with Asuka, who breaks down completely until EoE. Shinji pilots the EVA 01 because while it causes him physical, mental, and emotional pain every time he pilots it, he has a sense of longing to have people recognize him, especially his father Gendo, which is why he can't simply run away for good and not pilot it at all. It's not even about saving the world or anything - he wants people to love him, and ends up attaching himself to people who are abrasive, unsympathetic towards him, and manipulative. People who say he "never does anything to improve" are completely wrong - he's constantly giving up parts of himself to become more likable or better adjusted to his situation, but retreats when he's crushed under the weight of this heavy burden he's been handed. Shinji Ikari is somebody who is detestable because he's us - cowardly, indecisive, awkward. I think Anno was making a point about youth, particularly Japanese boys, in modern society, which is probably why so many people try to avoid his characterization and dismiss him as "whiney" or "emo" . Each and every one of us would do the same exact things he ever did in his circumstances and people hate that because it's nothing like their hot-blooded super robot heroes and their high-powered aces of "real mecha" programs. He isn't "GAR" (as a word 4chan would use), he's not "badass", but he's human, and that's not enough for most fans. |
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PantsGoblin
Subscriber Encyclopedia Editor Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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Is this actually a real arguement people are bringing up now? I have flaws, many. None of them are moping around in depression and doing little or nothing about it. Anybody who knows me could tell you that that just isn't me. I've had some bad sh*t happen to me in my life, I don't go around whining about it forever. Why? Because it accomplishes nothing. There really is no point to it. I don't see how hating someone like Shinji is avoiding my problems. It just seems logical to me. |
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JoshuaStChristopher
Posts: 351 |
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A) Note the
B) Not everyone deals with things the same way that you do. And I doubt you're piloting any giant robots. C) Lighten up and get over yourself. D) Guy Shishio. |
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selenta
Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I've said this before, but I'll say it again as it bugs the hell out of me more than just about anything else a user can do on a forum: do not assume you understand a viewpoint that differs from your own and then present what you assume as fact.
In other words: people who seem to like Shinji are making the claim that people must hate Shinji because he's too human and he's just too much like everyone on the inside for some people to handle. This is wrong. If you wish to prove that point, prove it by quoting the people who actually believe it, not by ignorantly assuming you understand other people's views better than they do. I and several other people claim to hate Shinji because he whines too much and doesn't do enough to rectify his situation, but several people have simply ignored what we've said and still seem to present the same ignorant claims of why they think we "really" hate him. Stop it, that's trolling. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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No, trolling is people who make snapshot judgements about a character they haven't bothered to try to understand. And because of that, I can only assume it's too difficult for a person to understand that character because they're either entirely too foreign and alien to them on a fundamental level or they identify with them on a level so deep that it's painful to suss it out, and so they resent them. Now, if, say, somebody had an actual argument in which they discussed the flaws of Shinji Ikari and how it would have better served him to act one way or another in a given situation to improve himself, even given his circumstances, then I might entertain the notion that Shinji Ikari might actually be disliked on a level which makes sense. However, this thread has no such arguments. And thus, your own ignorance to my argument, and the argument of others. |
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Mindless Watcher
Posts: 68 |
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First of all, and for the files, if someone would ask me to pilot a giant robot against some unknown, equally gigantic enemy I would politely refuse.
If Anno had created some seinen drama, a somewhat realistic tale about children soldiers in Africa or some not too imaginary past there wouldn't have been a problem. NGE would have been praised in the circles that don't want to see some gung-ho superhero. But when you throw giant robots into the mix and high-ranking officers in tight mini skirts you will attract the crowd that want to see exactly that and that will feel tricked to watch some "psychological stuff" about some "whiny teen". They strongly identify with the male lead and thus consider any weaknesses as a personal insult. In brief, the problem with Eva is that is trying to sit between all chairs. |
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