Forum - View topicMost Improved Character Tournament: Post-Mortem
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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Group D-1
Prince Siddhartha, Buddha: The Great Detective vs. Yuu Gotou, Noein – to your other self Yuu Gotou seems to be the better choice. Besides, I'm unfamiliar with Siddhartha, and Buddha: The Great Detective?  Seriously? That's a subtitle for a movie about Buddha? I have never watched the movie nor have I read the manga, but I read Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse few years ago and I don't remember him being a great detective.
Group D-2 Yuuko Kanoe, Dusk Maiden of Amnesia vs. Rei Ayanami, Rebuild of Evangelion movies Rei Ayanami Group D-3 Porco Rosso, Porco Rosso vs. Renji Abari, Bleach Porco Rosso Group D-4 Noriko Takaya, Gunbuster vs. Vegeta, Dragonball Z/Kai Noriko Takaya Group D-5 Mima Kirgoe, Perfect Blue vs. Suzu, The Twelve Kingdoms Suzu Group D-6 Momo Miyaura, A Letter to Momo vs. Mytho, Princess Tutu Momo Miyaura Group D-7 Saji Crossroad, Mobile Suit Gundam 00 vs. Nanami Kiryuu, Revolutionary Girl Utena Saji Crossroad Nanami is a weak choice. She improves a bit, but she certainly isn't one of the most changed characters in Utena. Group D-8 Naota Nandaba, FLCL vs. Tsukimi Kurashita, Princess Jellyfish Tsukimi Kurashita |
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rheiders
 Posts: 1137 Location: Colorful Colorado :) |
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Group D-1
Yuu Gotou, Noein – to your other self I haven't seen either (though the Buddha manga is one of my favorites), but I haven't heard amazing things about that Buddha movie and several other posters have made good cases for Yuu. Group D-2 Rei Ayanami, Rebuild of Evangelion movies I don't know either character very well, and neither one seems like a great candidate, so it's kind of a coin toss for me. Group D-3 Porco Rosso, Porco Rosso The one time I saw this movie it was with my high school Japan Club and we watched a version that had been very poorly subtitled from Chinese. I still thought Porco was a great character. Group D-4 Noriko Takaya, Gunbuster Ugh, I admit I may not be giving Vegeta a fair chance, as I've hated all things DBZ-related since I was a small child. However, based on the description, Noriko does seem more interesting. Group D-5 Suzu, The Twelve Kingdoms I'll admit, Perfect Blue is the one Satoshi Kon film I've never seen. I really want to, but I just haven't gotten around to it. Mima's development doesn't seem spectacular from the description, so I'll go with the character I know deserves to go on to the next round. Suzu isn't the best contestant from 12K in this tournament, but that doesn't mean she's not a worthy inclusion. She starts out whiny, entitled, and self-pitying, constantly complaining about her unfortunate situation but unwilling to do anything to fix it. Over time, and particularly following a certain character's death, she stops feeling sorry for herself and becomes more willing to take responsibility for her own situation. Group D-6 Momo Miyaura, A Letter to Momo I don't consider Mytho a very good candidate, and Key made a very good case for Momo. Group D-7 Saji Crossroad, Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Saji's progression over the course of the series is one of my favorite things about 00 (too bad the other aspects of the second season don't hold up as well : P). He goes through a lot, and is forced to do a lot of growing up, taking responsibility for his actions. Group D-8 Tsukimi Kurashita, Princess Jellyfish Tsukimi's development is subtle, but it's very strong. Most of the steps she takes toward becoming a better person are baby steps, it's true, but I think that's what makes her so realistic and relatable. At the beginning of the series, she can't interact with anyone outside the Sisterhood, and every word that comes out of her mouth is self-disparaging. She has absolutely no self esteem, and considers herself a "freak" who wasn't able to grow up to be the beautiful princess her mother wanted her to be. After meeting and spending time with Kuranosuke, who has accepted and openly embraces the things that make him different, she becomes more confident and is able to turn her passion for jellyfish into something productive. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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I was online when Key posted the results, and I checked them against what I had to make sure I hadn't made any mistakes before going to upload this week's minigame results, then I discovered that my internet had gone out. Bah.
Anyway, here they are now. This week threw off a number of people. Both Renton and Julian were pretty solidly favored to win their respective match-ups. That's a little surprising in Julian's case, as both the series Hellsing and the character of Seras are pretty well respected (at least in the OVA remakes). C-4's match between Luke and Tsubasa was expectedly close, with the slight edge falling to the same side, and C-6 between Ryuki and the protagonist of Tatami Galaxy had an even split in the minigame. |
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getchman
 He started itPosts: 9121 Location: Bedford, NH |
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Ouch, i'm dropping two points each round. overall the only hiccup from this round was Wakana loosing early. I had her making it to the third round
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13230 |
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I'm sure I'll hurt a lot more in later rounds. Really overestimated how many voters would participate.
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I've been lucky so far in my picks, as I haven't lot anyone who I expected to take down a seed in round 2.
Also, I don't get how overestimating the number of voters would really affect things. |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13230 |
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I thought it would draw a more 'general audience' thus I gave more weight to titles that are 'mainstream' and popular with an average fan. For example this round I have Vegeta winning against Noriko because Vegeta is from a series that everyone knows and Noriko is from an old OVA that probably only a more dedicated fan would have seen.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18218 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I'll still bet that a lot of people have picked Vegeta to win, though. You have to remember that many of us don't always vote in line with our minigame selections.
Dorcas_Aurelia, you have some garbage votes in the late rounds of that chart which are throwing off the Totals. That aside, if I'm reading that right then Rosebrook11 now singularly has the lead with me in second, two points behind. And none of my misses so far should have any impact on my second round, so I'm in pretty good shape right now. 
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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Okay, that does make sense. Still less the number of voters and more the mindset of them. I actually think our numbers have been about average, though Key or Dorcas_Aurelia will be able to say for sure if that is correct or not. I generally did go with the more popular series a fair amount too (I have Vegeta picked for that round), though not always since we've had the less obvious/well-known series does well before (the big one being Duck from Princess Tutu and Shu from Now and Then, Here and There being the winners of the Most Heroic Tournament). Mainly I tried to look at the nominations and how much support characters had, mixed with any previous knowledge, mixed with my own personal choices some of the time (but not all ... as I mentioned, I did not personally want Rikuo to win but he was my minigame pick). So far, Group D isn't looking all that great for me though, but it's still too early to know for sure (at the moment, I'm projecting 4/8). But currently I have the fourth highest score (I think!) so that's a pretty good place to be at this point. |
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rosebrook11
 Posts: 1181 |
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I don't expect to stay in first place for long. Luke's loss is going to hurt me big time in the future.
Group D-1 Prince Siddhartha, Buddha: The Great Detective vs. Yuu Gotou, Noein – to your other self From the comments here and the comments from my friend I'll vote for Yuu Group D-2 Yuuko Kanoe, Dusk Maiden of Amnesia vs. Rei Ayanami, Rebuild of Evangelion movies I don't really see much in Rei's improvement and Yuuko's guide entry makes her seem pretty cool so I'll vote for her. Group D-3 Porco Rosso, Porco Rosso vs. Renji Abari, Bleach Renji Group D-4 Noriko Takaya, Gunbuster vs. Vegeta, Dragonball Z/Kai Both of these characters have remarkable improvement, but I have to give my vote to Vegeta because I honestly think he goes through more improvement. I really think that he makes one of the best done villian transformations that I've seen in anime. It's not that after one specific event or conversation that he changes, it's a gradual process. Group D-5 Mima Kirgoe, Perfect Blue vs. Suzu, The Twelve Kingdoms Suzu Group D-6 Momo Miyaura, A Letter to Momo vs. Mytho, Princess Tutu Mythos Group D-7 Saji Crossroad, Mobile Suit Gundam 00 vs. Nanami Kiryuu, Revolutionary Girl Utena I'm actually really surprised that people think that Nanami was just as annoying at the end of the series then she was at the begining. She's not a perfect person at the end, but I believe that she makes considerable improvement. Her first introduction has her trying to publically humilate Anthy and her character at the end of the series would not be the type of person who would engage in those actions. Throughout the series, she learns (sometimes through extremely harsh methods) the errors of both her actions and her thinking. Her acceptance of Touga's proposal to join the student council near the start of the series reflects her own obsession with him and by the end of the series that obsession has obviously lessend. Her discovery of spoiler[Akio and Anthy's sexual relationship] makes her rethink her own relationship with her brother and by the end of the series she spoiler[ quits the student council which reflects on how her obsession with Touga has changed] Group D-8 Naota Nandaba, FLCL vs. Tsukimi Kurashita, Princess Jellyfish I thought this match would be harder for me to decide because I love the fact that FLCL basically is a coming of age story yet I also love Princess Jellyfish and the positive messages that it portrays. However, I quickly decided to give Tsukimi my vote. I guess her improved confidence impressed me more than Naota's growing up. |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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Yay! Nailed 7/8 for Group C. Kind of makes up for my crappy line up in Group B. Currently right in the middle, though a couple of my picks for this round (in particular Julian Mintz) I thought would knock out a couple of seeds in Round 2, which will bring me trouble later on (hopefully, not that much)
I'd say I made the same mistake as Vaisaga in assuming that there would be a lot more people voting, thus a decent amount of my guesses was based on a show's or character's popularity. This led me to pick Gaara in Group A and Rei in Group D (the former went in my favor, but the latter doesn't seem to be doing so) Group D-1 Yuu Gotou, Noein - to your other self Group D-2 Yuuko Kanoe, Dusk Maiden of Amnesia Up to the end of the second Eva movie, it doesn't feel like Rei has improved or changed significantly enough. True, she displays a range of humanity unseen in the original, but I don't particularly consider it an improvement, since her changes seems more oriented to turn her into ideal waifu material. Imho, Rei is a character that didn't need to improve because the whole point of Eva was being merciless, inglorious and cruel. On the other hand, over the course of 12 episodes, Yuuko learns to accept herself as a whole, even with the darkness and resent she'd been holding back for so long, and comes to terms with her tragic and horrid past, and becomes a wholesome person/ghost that is able to display a wider range of emotions, instead of forcibly repressing her sadness and anger. Group D-3 Renji Abarai, Bleach I want to make a special case for Renji because I think people aren't giving him the deserved credit. My shitty write-up may be to blame, but I do believe he deserves at least more than "he got standard shonen lecture/he didn't improve that much " Renji's major battles in the Soul Society arc, against Ichigo and against Byakuya are, imho, huge turning points for his character. The fight against Ichigo shows him his own weakness, but also his own desire that he'd been fighting against. He never gets lectured by Ichigo, it's the clashing of swords, and the memories of how important Rukia is to him that remind him of the powerlessness he's been trying to deny and ultimately bring him to his knees, begging Ichigo to save Rukia, since he lacks the power to do so. This also prompts him to quit stalling and actively try to become stronger, completing his Bankai training for the sake of fighting the man he has always looked up to, his own captain and Rukia's brother, Byakuya. When the imminent battle against Byakuya comes, Renji's resolution has completely settled on to becoming stronger and surpassing his captain in order to save Rukia. In this fight, Renji's previous cocky and arrogant attitude completely disappears, to show up his true fiery and passionate persona, completely devoted to achieving his goals with all his strength. Even if the tide of the fight is never in his favour, Renji continues to struggle, never falling into despair. Though he is ultimately defeated, Byakuya acknowledges his strength and perseverance. Needless to say, once the battles are over and Rukia is saved, Renji's bonds with the other three main players -Ichigo, Rukia and Byakuya- take a 180 degree turn. Ichigo comes to greatly trust Renji, and he becomes one of Ichigo's closest friends and most reliable allies in battle. His friendship with Rukia is also reinstated, after cutting their ties many years ago they manage to rebuild their bond, which is of particular significance, since their separation back in the academy was one of Renji's greatest regrets and a heavy burden he carried around, but which also motivated him in most of what he did. As for Byakuya, rather than the hostile and rival-like relationship they'd had up to that point, they develop great trust in each other and become an amazing team in battle. Byakuya comes to respect Renji as a lieutenant and a capable fighter, as opposed to looking down on him due to his upbringing, and Renji respects Byakuya for his strength, both emotional and in battle, looking up to him, not as a rival or enemy, but a man that he can admire. Group D-4 Noriko Takaya, Gunbuster Group D-5 Mima Kirigoe, Perfect Blue Group D-6 Momo Miyaura, A Letter to Momo Group D-7 Nanami Kiryuu, Revolutionary Girl Utena Group D-8 Tsukimi Kurashita, Princess Jellyfish |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3889 Location: New York state. |
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Whatever happened to some of us participating in the minigame just for the sake of bragging rights? There's a chance voting against your picks could bite you in the rear for later rounds. 
And by the way, is anyone gonna try telling me what makes Tsukimi a better pick in D-8 over Naota when I laid out my reasoning in my prior post? |
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Aylinn
Posts: 1684 |
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You know rosebrook11, your argument made me think that I may have jumped to the conclusion. I haven't seen Utena for a long time and I didn't pay that much attention to Nanami, as I found other characters more interesting. I will wait a bit longer to see if there are any compelling arguments for Saji, and if there aren't, I will change my vote. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6533 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Key, I never knew Buddha was a shamus.
Group D-1 Prince Siddhartha, Buddha: The Great Departure vs. Yuu Gotou, Noein – to your other self Prince Siddhartha, Buddha: The Great Departure Group D-2 Yuuko Kanoe, Dusk Maiden of Amnesia vs. Rei Ayanami, Rebuild of Evangelion movies Yuuko Kanoe, Dusk Maiden of Amnesia. This is more of a vote against Rei Ayanami. I’ve never thought all that much of her in any of the Evangelion builds. Yuuko Kanoe’s write-up suggests her improvement may well be better than any putative improvement on Rei’s part. Group D-3 Porco Rosso, Porco Rosso vs. Renji Abari, Bleach Porco Rosso, Porco Rosso Group D-4 Noriko Takaya, Gunbuster vs. Vegeta, Dragonball Z/Kai Vegeta, Dragonball Z/Kai Group D-5 Mima Kirgoe, Perfect Blue vs. Suzu, The Twelve Kingdoms Suzu, The Twelve Kingdoms. I’ve watched Perfect Blue several times while I just finished The Twelve Kingdoms last Sunday. As much as I’m a fan of Satoshi Kon, I think Mima Kirigoe barely deserves to be in the tournament. The film is about what happens to her, not what she does. Indeed, that she is more victim than agent is the main reason I rate Perfect Blue as excellent and not masterpiece. Suzu can’t compare with the Youko – the main character of The Twelve Kingdoms – but she shows considerably more improvement than Mima. Group D-6 Momo Miyaura, A Letter to Momo vs. Mytho, Princess Tutu Momo Miyaura, A Letter to Momo. Again, I’ve seen both. As in the previous pairing, one of the candidates – Mytho - barely merits being here. Really, he is just re-assembled from his constituent parts by Duck. Momo’s journey from grief, guilt and depression makes her more deserving of promotion to the next round. Group D-7 Saji Crossroad, Mobile Suit Gundam 00 vs. Nanami Kiryuu, Revolutionary Girl Utena Nanami Kiryuu, Revolutionary Girl Utena Group D-8 Naota Nandaba, FLCL vs. Tsukimi Kurashita, Princess Jellyfish Tsukimi Kurashita, Princess Jellyfish. As in D2 this is a vote against, rather than for, as I haven’t seen Princess Jellyfish (yet). I fail to see what is so special about someone growing up. We all should try to do it some time before we die. For me, whatever pleasures there are to be found in FLCL come from it’s chaotic veneer, not from its characterisation and storytelling. |
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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There's also a chance the making your picks based too much on your personal choice can do the same (see me picking my favourites to win the Duos tournament, only to have them be knocked out in the first round). And rosebrook11's reasonings for picking Tsukimi say why she found her better than Naota, for reasons less biased then mine (putting my nominee against a character from a series I couldn't finish because I disliked it so much makes for a very easy voting decision). Plus a few others who have only seen FLCL are specifically voting against Naota as well, even with your reasoning on the table. |
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