Forum - View topicNEWS: TV Tokyo's Iwata Discusses Anime's 'Road to Survival'
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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I keep hearing the "much higher quality" argument from some people, but even if that were true -- and I've heard the difference in quality is so minute as to not matter -- it still isn't a fair price. vash: no offense, but that "preview" thing is still a very weak argument -- fact is, fansubs are most often used by people IN LIEU of the actual series. Groups don't sub a few episodes, and some defy C&D commands. I mean it's a nice little idealized world where people ONLY use fansubs to sample the show and understand that they are honor-bound to buy the legal DVDs at some point, but it's still just fantasy land. |
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crilix
Posts: 208 |
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bayoab
Posts: 831 |
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I should clarify that I am mostly referring to shows that are made to sell DVDs. i.e. Those that cater to the otaku audience. When I say higher quality, I don't just mean the video. I mean the entire package. It isn't just a plain amaray with a sheet of paper and a DVD and feedback card stuffed inside. The boxes use high quality materials. The cover artwork typically looks better. They aren't using the cheapest packaging available. Yes, there is still an obscene amount of markup on them and the last price drop I can remember was ~5 years ago (by ~$5 USD), but they are getting a much better product. Last edited by bayoab on Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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TBH, I could care less how fancy schmancy my packaging is as long as I get what I want at a reasonable price. Sure, thinpaks are cheaply-produced, but they save space and they hold the DVD just as well as any fancy, pimped-out DVD case. When it comes down to it, cost-saving and storage space trump overpriced gimmicks, IMHO.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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I knew it was not talking about Taiwan, and that was why I included population numbers (for the record, Taiwan has 1/13 of US population). The cultural difference between here and Japan is minimal compared to that of other countries (the only Asian country/territory that had been annexed/invaded by Japan between Meiji Restoration and atomic bombs and still have a large population -- and I mean up to 50% -- being grateful for what Japan had done). I wouldn't be too surprised if a title had sold no more than just 30 copies here, such as titles licensed by this company.
Seconded. Some R3TW companies (such as Proware) advertise their packaging "as close to the R2JP original as possible." For hard-to-translate titles, sometimes fans would even request having the cover art untouched/untranslated. Not to mention omake and other gadgets. And Amaray is one of the best cases available; AFAIK most US anime licensees don't use Amaray.
Well, different tastes, I guess.
Just use legal downloads then. It's more cost- and space-saving, isn't it? 
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crilix
Posts: 208 |
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With more words to add, Japan hasn't been producing any more, or less, crappy titles than they have in the past. Our perception has changed over this decade due to increased availability of anime content in English. The Japanese have been playing this game of selling anime longer than North America. They know they can't break into the mainstream, they know they mustn't slash prices to please a minority of whiney consumers. Anime will always stay a niche business aimed at young kids and nerds, and no, the mainstream will never transform into horny teenagers eager for a dose of big tits or pistols, or intellectualfags who cream their pants over every pretentious MANGLOBE title. Anime should be enjoyed as if they were made for Japanese otaku or Japanese children. |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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What the hell is so wrong with paying $60 for the complete set in a thinkpak compared to blowing $100 on those super-duper-ultra-tricked-out single volumes? Sure, they've done that a lot in the past here, like with the individual volumes of GITS and Haruhi. But they've since stopped, because, I imagine, producing the tricked-out stuff costs MORE than doing a standard DVD release. I really don't care about extra merchandise I have no use for when I just want the damn show. By your logic, though, companies should sink more money into special editions that won't make significant sales and will make it HARDER for them to recoup costs.
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letniinside
Posts: 19 |
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excerpts:
"According to Iwata, the main purposes of the services are not just the revenues from fees and advertising, but also the counterweight it provides against unauthorized fansub distribution." If they are truly wanna counterweight the unauthorized fansub distribution they should IMPROVE Themselves! Solutions: Be like or even more than "fansubs" 1. Research about hardsubbing on fansubs! Try to observe their quality (from karaoke, translations, Fonts, colors, effects, etc) 2. Karaoke: a. Put kanji karaoke b. Put romanized japanese karaoke c. Put Good & Decent, Concise translation d. Put Special effects, colors & good font effect etc. esp in execution of words just like in karaoke 3. translation/subtitle: Good, decent & concise translation. Good font effects, color, capturing 'moods' into fonts/subtitles especially in execution of techniques ei. naruto techniques. Not all japanese terms can be translated to english so it should stay as is but provide supplemental notes & trivia about it. 4. Notes/signs. of course, provide translation (over/superimpose) of every kanji signs & it should move esp in moving scenes. provide SUPPLEMENTAL notes/trivias esp difficult deep japanese terms & especially 'pun' 5. for DVD releases: As above NO ENGLISH DUBBED PLEASE, kinda SU CKS. Too cartoony, to cheesy, to gayish (some accent even if the character is not gay). No english dubbed esp from FUNIMATION, TOO HORRIBLE. I've seen this character in DARKER than Black (dubbed), theres a french accent that is HORRIBLY INAUDIBLE that subs are a MUST. Plus they have tons of gayish accent sounding dubbed (no offense to gays- nothing against you) or in short the dubbed doesnt match the characters. The only good & decent dubbed are from BANDAI, esp COWBOY BEBOP. 6. Honorifics STAYs AS IS in sub & dub. I've seen a lot of dubbed that horribly murdering honorifics. So here are the problems why Crunchyrolls/ Tv tokyo didn't deter FANSUBS: 1. Cause its crunchyroll. Crunchyroll is a GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT! 2. Its VIDEO STREAMING!!! Video streaming SU CKS!!! Video streaming is for home made vids & home made PO RN only & it should stay for those genre only! 3. TERRIBLE SUBS they provide. Everything is WRONG! it doesnt meet ABOVE solutions at all. They didn't even subs the preview!!! 4. I understand that it has fee to help their company BUT WATTAHELL with the SUB QUALITY???!!!! People says theyve been scammed!!!!!! NO WONDER WHY FANS PREFERRED FANSUBS BECAUSE ITS FREE, THEY didn't EVEN WANT DONATIONS (some) PLUS IT HAS THE HIGHEST SUB QUALITY! 5. NO POPPED UP ANNOYING ADS. We DONT promote Fansubs. But if only YOU/They improved their QUALITY(not only applicable to video/ audio but the MOST IMPORTANT is to the SUBS) FANs probably Love them MORE. HERE's the ULTIMATE SOLUTION to REALLY DETER FANSUBS!!! (but not 100% guarantee) 1. It should AIR to the WORLD at the same time with JAPAN! (not an hour after!!!!!!) (Bandai's doing it with KUROKAMI - but only in North America but its a good step) of course with above solutions should be met... 2. DVD should equally distributed all over the world in CLASS S Quality!!! like above solutions with DECENT ENGLISH DUBBED & Multi lingual dubbed. 3. the ultimate of ultimate solution: SELL & Distribute DVDs to the WORLD before it airs in japan & the world!!!!! Fansub is not the main problem of the world, instead solve the MAIN PROBLEM of the WORLD: POVERTY HUNGER VIOLENCE POPULATION OVERGROWTH INDIFFERENCE GREED CLIMATE CHANGE |
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SnaphappyFMA
Posts: 216 Location: California |
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I signed up for Crunchyroll's anime membership, because I wanted to support the original creators by viewing their work legally, with English subs, and near-simultaneously with its airing in Japan. I can afford $6.95/month to do this, and I think it makes a statement to the original creators that this distribution model works and is something that fans over here in America will support. It's a good middle ground between fansubs (no monies to creators) and DVD purchases (very expensive for fans, considering there's often only 4 eps per disc, etc.).
I will say though that I continue to watch fansubs for a lot of series. Unless some Crunchyroll-type website comes forth, presenting numerous anime series for viewing at perhaps a Netflix-type subscription price ($19.95/month, say), it's hard to beat fansubs, especially for ongoing series like Bleach. And fansubs lead to people becoming fans, who spend money on the series and its related products. I've bought all of the volumes of the Saiyuki and Saiyuki Reload manga from Tokyopop. I wouldn't have done this if I hadn't become a fan of Saiyuki... by watching Saiyuki fansubs. It's an endless argument, I know, with at least some validity on all sides. Hopefully the current experiment with Crunchyroll's anime membership model will lead to additional distribution channels of the same ilk. |
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Tyrenol
Posts: 398 Location: Northern California |
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Before this forum post gets locked down...
You know I'm glad that the movie industry is not being run by someone like Keisuke Iwata. My ear's to the ground; hearing about the Screen Actors' Guild being the next to strike and paralize Hollywood. Yet the movie industry is still cranking out stuff and bringing in hundreds of millions of dollars... Iwata? His answer to the "crisis" the anime industry is having? "We stick to supporting our own. We run and hide from the outside world." Because, you know, the East is not like the West; where we "spine up" and face the reality in order to move up. My argument still stands: Everyone over at the anime industry who run the risk of falling down the hole; SHOULD. Those with talent and the capability to do anything other than "loudening the Larson" will be picked out and nurtured. |
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hikaru004
 Posts: 2306 |
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Well in a way they still are releasing special edition versions. Now it's called release the DVD first then the BD version second or simultaneously in some cases. Nothing is wrong with paying for the cheap release especially in this economy from the R1 buyer's perspective. However, the R2 owners prob aren't getting as much as they used to because of this. So from their perspective, it sucks. On some titles, they're prob thinking it wasn't worth the effort. Another aspect of the R2 release is that they get physical extras with the SE releases on top of the packaging. In cases like Clannad, the physical extras were amazing (deck of cards, minature music box thingy..). In comparison, the only company that's come close to emulating this is Bandai Ent with their SE releases of Lucky Star, Haruhi, Gurren Lagann and Code Geass. |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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So basically...
Fansub watchers: "But they expose you to new anime and let you 'preview' a show and keep current with what's airing in Japan!" Anti-fansub types: "But they're illegal, take money away from the original creators, and most people don't legally buy the shows/delete their fansubs." It's one of those arguments that can go in circles forever with no true resolution, sadly. But regardless of the semantics, fansubs are still the elephant they need to focus on. To the Japanese companies: stop giving the fansubbers and the fansub watchers a reason to violate the law. Stream stuff. Promote it. Buy TV time in America. Release DVDs simultaneously in both regions. Stop clinging on to the past because your nation is afraid of change. Stop being afraid of the Internet and the digital world. Use it to YOUR ADVANTAGE. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Evangelion's "impact" is overstated. Evangelion is STILL huge in Japan, not so much in America (they STILL crank out tons of new Eva toys and such in Japan), so it's no wonder Japanese execs would overestimate it's impact. Don't get me wrong, Eva sold a LOT of units, but so did Cowboy Bebop, and NEITHER title would have sold anywhere near the volume if not for people willing to watch them. And THAT phenomenon only happened because of the two TRUE "breakthrough" titles of the 90s: Sailor Moon & Dragonball Z Those titles introduced a legion of kids to anime and made them think that cartoons could be (a little) deeper than looney toons. I honestly think you CANNOT overstate Sailor Moon's importance. Without Sailor Moon, you don't get GIRLS interested in anime (look at anime fandom BEFORE Sailor Moon). Without girls into anime, its nowhere NEAR as "acceptable" for guys to be into this stuff. And that's how you get huge numbers of teens checking out Evangelion after wanting to "upgrade" from Dragonball Z. But without the "gateway" anime, you don't have a bunch of teens willing to watch "cartoons" in their high school years. |
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ZiharkXVI
Posts: 364 |
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Viciousnip -
It's hard to tell what Iwata means with his rather cryptic comment, but like testorschoice said, he may be talking about scaling it back quite a bit. And for all this talk about fansub quality vs. official quality - I'd think it'd be clearer, but this is a veritable non-issue from someone like Iwata's standpoint. Availability is the key issue in regards to fansubbers, not quality. Sure, people may want their better quality, and some may continue to illegally download to achieve it, but at this point the ball is in a different court. The anime in question would be available through other means, and thus Iwata now can employ little things like lawsuits supported by contracted companies in the domestic markets (which would make sense since there is money to be lost and gained). Iwata is more concerned about whether to even bother with the global market in his commentary, which I posted earlier is rather defeatest of him. Kind of like saying, "the world is hard! people are unfair! I'm going with the short term answer and just avoid it all!" And truthfully, a scaleback would help the companies financially, it would be less risk, and for someone like Iwata who may or may not have other agenda's besides long-range planning on his palette, not a bad idea. But these sorts of answers are the types of problems companies who are short sighted eventually have to deal with. Give it 20, even 10 years down the road, and they'll be fighting stagnation within their own domestic market. Global influence, I'm sure in Iwata's opinion, is a corporate headache. |
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omoikane
Posts: 494 |
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Shizuki agrees. |
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