Forum - View topic

Characters you think are overrated?

You can believe what you want. It's blatantly obvious that he is, which is why the vast majority of people commenting on him throughout SAO1 acknowledged him as such.

Chiibi wrote:

Your saying so doesn't make it true. If you put him through the Mary Sue Limitus Test, his score is not very high and I'm inclined to believe something like that more than a person's opinion on a forum.

You can believe what you want. It's blatantly obvious that he is, which is why the vast majority of people commenting on him throughout SAO1 acknowledged him as such.

Evidently not the creator of the Mary Sue test who actually researched what the term means.

If you compare Kirito to the Star Trek concept that supposedly generated the term in the first place, he lines up pretty nicely.

Mary Sue stories—the adventures of the youngest and smartest ever person to graduate from the academy and ever get a commission at such a tender age. Usually characterized by unprecedented skill in everything from art to zoology, including karate and arm-wrestling. This character can also be found burrowing her way into the good graces/heart/mind of one of the Big Three [Kirk, Spock, and McCoy], if not all three at once. She saves the day by her wit and ability, and, if we are lucky, has the good grace to die at the end, being grieved by the entire ship.[5]

Chiibi wrote:

Evidently not the creator of the Mary Sue test who actually researched what the term means.

Anyone can research what it means. If you compare Kirito to the Star Trek concept that supposedly generated the term in the first place, he lines up pretty nicely.

Yeah, let's see....

Quote:

Mary Sue stories—the adventures of the youngest and smartest ever person to graduate from the academy and ever get a commission at such a tender age. Usually characterized by unprecedented skill in everything from art to zoology, including karate and arm-wrestling. This character can also be found burrowing her way into the good graces/heart/mind of one of the Big Three [Kirk, Spock, and McCoy], if not all three at once. She saves the day by her wit and ability, and, if we are lucky, has the good grace to die at the end, being grieved by the entire ship.[5]

Actually Kirito shares many of those qualities. He is young and appears to be smarter than everyone in SAO.

He has unprecedented skill in everything from sword-fighting to strategy to hacking to riding motorcycles.

His skills are so high in fact that he can slice through bullets in mid-air and predict where bullets will be fired before the person even fires them.

He's the fastest kid alive, so he is the only one chosen to use the most badass skill of dual-wielding.

His willpower is so strong that he can prevent himself from dying, and override the system of a video game.

Also, he's apparently such a stud that his "wife" is totally okay with him spending many a romantic moment with other girls, holding them and promising to protect them because they are oh so special to him.

He's also so hot that his own younger sister (with a huge rack of course) can barely contain her desire for him. So, yea... he's in the "good graces" of quite a few big breasted and/or super hot girls.

I'd say he lines up quite nicely. However, you are missing the larger point. I think this is what most people miss when they try to claim that mary sue/gary stu is some crazy term that no one can ever use.

It is pretty clear that Kirito serves that role for Kawahara.

Like I said, you can like Kirito. It's fine. He seems like a likeable chap. But he is Kawahara's ideal avatar, his "gary stu", unlike his other leading boy, Haruyuki, who is a non-idealized character (and thus a much better one in this context).

Actually Kirito shares many of those qualities. He is young and appears to be smarter than everyone in SAO.

He has unprecedented skill in everything from sword-fighting to strategy to hacking to riding motorcycles. His skills are so high in fact that he can slice through bullets in mid-air and predict where bullets will be fired before the person even fires them.

His willpower is so strong that he can prevent himself from dying,

Also, he's drop-dead gorgeous of course, so every girl who comes within a 10 ft radius of him must start blushing and want to join his harem.

Also, he's apparently such a stud that his "wife" is totally okay with him spending many a romantic moment with other girls, holding them and promising to protect them because they are oh so special to him.

So, yea... he's in the "good graces" of quite a few big breasted and/or super hot girls.

I'd say he lines up quite nicely. However, you are missing the larger point. I think this is what most people miss when they try to claim that mary sue/gary stu is some crazy term that no one can ever use.

The point is, there isn't some "litmus test" or checklist of traits that will tell you automatically if a character fits this concept or not. The term is mainly focused on describing a very special type of "self-insert" character. It is a type that is on the extreme end of the "author insert." This is a character that the author wrote specifically because he or she wants very badly to be that character, and imbues that character with all of their own ideal characteristics and scenarios. The story and all other characters in the story exist mainly to service the characteristics and scenarios for this character that the author wants very badly to be. That is the essence of the term. It is pretty clear that Kirito serves that role for Kawahara.

Like I said, you can like Kirito. It's fine. He seems like a likeable chap. But he is Kawahara's ideal avatar, his "gary stu", unlike his other leading boy, Haruyuki, who is a non-idealized character (and thus a much better one in this context).

He also explained that Kirito and Hariyuki were supposed to be polar opposites.

Actually author avatars and Sues are not the same thing. I just read that.

Ooh, cool, I didn't know. :'D I'm planning to watch Accel World after SAO finishes; found it for a bargain at WAL-MART OF ALL PLACES. :'DDD

You should. Accel World is a much better story than SAO. Haruyuki is ten times better of a character too. And contrary to what Bugnin was indicating, he's not "strong on the inside" as some mirror opposite to Kirito.

Actually...that's not me saying that. Reki said that. You know, the Author who wrote both series? You going to tell me he's wrong?

Hariyuki has a strong moral compass. He gets bullied but internally he's very tough. Kirito struggles all the time with his own morality. They are indeed polar opposites.

Well since Chiibi and Bugnin basically admitted that all of the things I claimed about Kirito were more or less accurate, but they just tried to explain them away with excuses, I think I'll just take that as a win for "yea, Kirito has a lot of ridiculously idealized characteristics that gary stu tend to have."

You should. Accel World is a much better story than SAO. Haruyuki is ten times better of a character too.

He struggles quite a lot with his emotional turmoil all throughout the series.

He also has to actually win the heart of his love interest

Bugnin wrote:

Actually...that's not me saying that. Reki said that. You know, the Author who wrote both series? You going to tell me he's wrong?

Assuming you are accurately quoting him, I will just say I think he is doing a good bit of revisionism.

Quote:

He struggles quite a lot with his emotional turmoil all throughout the series.

So does Kirito.

Quote:

He also has to actually win the heart of his love interest

So did Kirito.

...so the author of both stories is lying and you're the correct one regarding the characters he created. ok.