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mgosdin



Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Posts: 743
Location: Kissimmee, Florida, USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:34 am Reply with quote
Cynicism, yes Anime fandom & industry has it's fair share.

However, spend some time on some of the Model Railroad boards and you will see whole new dimensions of cynicism. ( Much of it amply justified seeing as that hobby has to deal with the reverse of Anime's environment, painfully exacting modeled products designed / originated in the US but manufactured in Asia. So things can get really lost in the translation. )

On another of my hobby's forums, Audio, you see many people who practice Don't Feed The Trolls when ever cynicism / trollish behavior appears. Things are more informative and quieter on some of those forums.

Cynicism, like alcohol and many other things, is beneficial when used in moderation.

Mark Gosdin
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No Comment



Joined: 19 Jun 2012
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:04 am Reply with quote
I just gotta say I loved your vivid depictions of otaku discrimination. It wouldn't be a laughing matter at all had it been a group that's actually discriminated against, but with otakus inserted in there it makes it sound like some absurd totalitarian anti-anime regime that you'd hear an anime fan who's deep in his own head spout on a message board as the future of fandom.

I think cynicism is also perpetrated by the naive or newer fans. Some of those fans who complain every season is the darkest hour of anime thus far may have not even been watching anime for five years. I feel like you need almost decade of following anime to where you can recognize industry patterns and trends to acknowledge that most downturns or winning streaks are just phases and have more balanced/realistic cynicism. I think it's different from lazy critiscism in that it's heartfelt, but just misguided. Newer fans may get out in the middle of the forum and start crying its the end of times, but they have no sense of scale regarding how the anime's been getting made for decades as opposed to older fans. As a 3 year anime fan, my initial enthusiasm is gone, sometimes I need to remind myself of this when whatever's going on in the industry has me down.

Great column
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Parsifal24



Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Posts: 335
Location: Holland MI

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:58 am Reply with quote
As far as discrimination I always look askance at anyone who tries to say Otaku are "discriminated against, Liking a comic book from a different country does not give you the right to romantic fantasies of self martyrdom when racial and religious minorities are dieing the streets.

As far as cynicism goes I'm convinced fandom as a mind set has become like Cronus eating it's young or this disgusting tribalism and I'm really cynical deeply so about so many aspects of fandom mostly the whole "brotherhood of fans" aspect because every negative experience I have ever had has been at the hands of other fans.

Be it obsessive over identified fans, people who use criticism as a bully pulpit for their sociopolitical views, group think, the list goes on and on. SO I'm mostly convinced that true cynicism is an inevitable part of life and the sooner someone grimly resigns themselves to it.

The better because than you can rid yourself of this naive idea that just because you like the same T.V. show as some one that that's a crux for a sense of "community".
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 609

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:00 am Reply with quote
Ah, cynicism. I might be too new of a streaming fan (got into anime in the mid-late 90s, started watching simulcasts around 2011) for cynicism to really be much of a problem for me. Granted, I also jumped into simulcasts when the moe boom was fairly big, so for me, it's par for the course and not really a "back in my day it was better" kind of thing.

But I think it also helps that I know I have particular tastes in anime and that I acknowledge that the anime industry is very much not targeting me, so finding a show I like ends up being something of a happy accident.

Lastly, being choosy about my anime means that I don't usually watch more than 3 or 4 shows per season. When seasons/shows overlap into the next season, it get kind of hairy keeping up with everything, but since I'm not watching 20 shows at a time or anything crazy like that, I think it helps prevent me from feeling like I'm seeing the same old thing again and again.
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Anton Chigurh



Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 230
Location: San Diego, California

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:09 am Reply with quote
I wonder if the person with the Otaku discrimination question has Twitter. So I can block him.
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L'Imperatore



Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Posts: 278

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:21 am Reply with quote
Quote:
...while I know of at least one company that's literally comprised of two people.

Allow me to guess: this one?
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Polycell
Thread KillerThread Killer


Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 3936

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:44 am Reply with quote
My guess is Discotek. Crimson Star should've been two people, but Mr. Stupid refused to hire a standin for places he wasn't allowed to go.
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Utsuro no Hako



Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 484

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:50 am Reply with quote
L'Imperatore wrote:
Quote:
...while I know of at least one company that's literally comprised of two people.

Allow me to guess: this one?


That's not an employee. That's his cell mate.
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here-and-faraway



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 1382
Location: Sunny California

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:50 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Since ANN participation seems to peak while school is in session, I'm going to make an educated guess and suggest that you're here because your actual homework is in another browser tab, and you are procrastinating.


Or you're an overwhelmed teacher who needs a break before she starts creating her seating chart... ^_~ (That's me right now...)


Last edited by here-and-faraway on Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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7jaws7



Joined: 17 Aug 2013
Posts: 235
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:51 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Having to yell at a convention staffer for not letting you set up the booth that you paid thousands of dollars for, losing hotel reservations for your guests, and kicking you out of an event you sponsored...


This should probably be saved for next week, but how do those things even happen?
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Via_01



Joined: 24 Aug 2014
Posts: 369

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:55 am Reply with quote
I don't think I ever felt that I was being discriminated just because I liked japanese animation (and related stuff). I think that's mostly because I was never one of those "in your face" type of fans, and I simply enjoyed it on my own. Of course, I never really hid the fact that I liked such things either, and in my last two years of high school everyone knew that I watched anime shows and ocassionally went to conventions. Though some did look at me with weird eyes for a while, it didn't last long. Heck, some even approached me and started talking to me about some of the mainstream popular animes currently airing.

...that said, one thing is them knowing that you watch anime, and another ENTIRELY different thing is people knowing what shows you're watching. It may not be everyone's case, but if you're following a show about a girl that wants to get into his brother's pants and is very explicit about it... well, let's just say that's not something you can just shout out loud to some people.

And regarding cynicism, it's true that there's a lot of it going around. If you go to places like 4chan, you're going to find a lot of unjustified cynicism, either from people that just hatewatch anime or look down on current trends because they prefer shows from 2 decades ago (some of them being unable to accept that there were a lot, and I mean A LOT, of shitty shows back in the day). But cynicism can be used to bring up valid criticism towards many shows, as there are many harcore fans that idolize them without seeing their "dark side".

In other words, I'm not against cynic fans as long as they are not jerks about it.
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Fedora-san



Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 351

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:09 pm Reply with quote
It seems a bit naive to say anime fans can't be discriminated against. I wonder if Handley, or that guy who got arrested by customs for having a manga on him and they decided to slap him with child porn charges and got them to be labeled sex offenders would agree anime fans are not discriminated against.

Via_01 wrote:
And regarding cynicism, it's true that there's a lot of it going around. If you go to places like 4chan, you're going to find a lot of unjustified cynicism, either from people that just hatewatch anime or look down on current trends because they prefer shows from 2 decades ago (some of them being unable to accept that there were a lot, and I mean A LOT, of shitty shows back in the day). But cynicism can be used to bring up valid criticism towards many shows, as there are many harcore fans that idolize them without seeing their "dark side".


Are we talking about the same 4chan? 4chan is one of the more level-headed anime communities. They don't have that 'all current anime sucks, old Toonami anime for life!' mentality some other forums do. /a/ talks about current anime quite openly. I rarely see any kind of cynical old anime fans on there, they generally get called Toonamibabies and shunned for being a casual. Actually, last I checked, discussion of Toonami stuff was regulated to /co/, the American cartoon board, because of how many casual and non-anime fans it attracts and they didn't want those people mucking up /a/.


Last edited by Fedora-san on Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7406
Location: Snake Mountain Cocktail Lounge

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:10 pm Reply with quote
Fedora-san wrote:
shunned for being a casual.


sounds great
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thenix



Joined: 18 Apr 2012
Posts: 198

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:21 pm Reply with quote
The people who want to be a victim is what makes me want to disassociate from being an otaku or anime person. Although in general I just like what I like and enjoy things that are entertaining and that goes with anything from sports to sci-fi. I don't feel I need to categorize myself. That being said though I hear a lot of complaing about how bad they are persecuted by regular people. I know it's true because I was once at that state of mind, but it sounds like there are still people that only see the bad in their situation and only the good of what they hold up high (the asian culture) so that they can use it to justify them feeling like a victim. I think it was well put that you are a victim if you let yourself be one, especially in a case like this. There are real victims like people who have their whole town destroyed by a tornado and they don't get on message boards to tell everyone how horrible their life is, they start rebuilding their homes and their lives.

Also I don't like hearing people that complain about cynicism like this. Basically from what I understood he thinks that everyone has to like every anime and aren't allowed to say they dislike it or any part of it or even think such things. Not everything is perfect and because you didn't like part of a show doesn't mean the whole thing is bad. I guess it might be nice to like everything you ever watch but I think it's smart to find out what you liked about a show you watched and seek out other shows that have what you like. Of course it goes with finding what you don't like about a show and avoiding shows that are like that.
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Via_01



Joined: 24 Aug 2014
Posts: 369

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:30 pm Reply with quote
Fedora-san wrote:
Are we talking about the same 4chan? 4chan is one of the more level-headed anime communities. They don't have that 'all current anime sucks, old Toonami anime for life!' mentality some other forums do. /a/ talks about current anime quite openly. I rarely see any kind of cynical old anime fans on there, they generally get called Toonamibabies and shunned for being a casual. Actually, last I checked, discussion of Toonami stuff was regulated to /co/, the American cartoon board, because of how many casual and non-anime fans it attracts and they didn't want those people mucking up /a/.


Yeah, sorry, I shouldn't have talked about 4chan in general. I know that there are some really level-headed communities there, and I've had some great discussions in /a/. At the same time, I've gone through some really bad experiences. As much as I dislike it, some boards in 4chan do gather cynical and "hostile" crowds from time to time. But yeah, it's true that you can find good people to discuss shows in 4chan. I should have worded it differently.

And I barely ever visit /co/, so I didn't know Toonami stuff was being discussed there. That mainly because I don't watch dubbed shows... not really because I don't "like" them, but because I don't live in America, don't have Toonami, and English is not my primary language, so no matter how much I try, most English dubs sound really awkward to me.
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