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REVIEW: Turn A Gundam Sub.DVD [2015-09-21]




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ryanvamp



Joined: 08 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:56 pm Reply with quote
I'm really happy to see Nick liked this particular Gundam series, always considered a black sheep in the franchise. Though with so many years of gundam series Turn A is not the only entry considered a commercial disappointment, it is indeed the one that didn't deserve such fate.

Maybe it was always meant to be a cult hit, only enjoyed by a small audience even inside the already increasingly small fandom that loves mecha series, but as long as from time to time people decide to check it out, maybe that will be enough as a consolation.

I personally rate it as one of the best and most original Gundam series (and I've seen them all) and I definitely believe it can be enjoyed by people that aren't even into giant robots fighting. The action really does take a backseat to the human drama and the characters interactions.
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belvadeer



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:41 pm Reply with quote
The timing of this review is perfect as I just finished watching the final disc of Turn A Gundam today on my end. I have to say, this Gundam definitely had some of the strongest character development I've seen in the series (non-spoilers: Sochie definitely got a lot better, I won't say why). It's funny; I've heard people complain they disliked this entry because there wasn't enough mobile suit action and too much focus on the characters talking. Nowadays I hear people say the last few years worth of Gundam have too much of mobile suits blowing crap up and not enough character development. So what do Gundam fans want from the series exactly again?

I wonder, does this series poke fun at itself with its own references? Because in one episode it spoiler[showed a couple of mobile suits from G Gundam while the characters were going over data and Gym even executed what he called the Shining Finger move in the Turn X, though it looked nothing like Domon's famous technique].

Agrippa Maintainer, who was only name-dropped in the first half, spoiler[seemed kind of pointless as an antagonist since he barely had much time on screen and he was killed off without much reason to care despite his actions; his voice also didn't fit his look at all and was unbearable to listen to].

I have to say the second ending, Moon's Cocoon, is quite possibly one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard. There was something about playing the song during the spoiler[ending montage following the final battle's aftermath] that made me want to cry. It just fit so well.

Speaking of the ending, while some might find it annoying that spoiler[Kihel and Dianna are doing the switching places bit again], it makes sense spoiler[since Dianna wanted to live like a normal person with Loran]. I'm a little confused as to what happened with spoiler[the Turn A and Turn X; did the machines themselves decide to be sealed in a cocoon so no one would try to use them again]?

In the end, I quite enjoyed this Gundam entry, despite it took this long for it to make it here officially. However, I can't complain about that when the end result was nice. I know the minor issues I had include lack of an English dub as well as some downright embarrassing character designs for the random civilians, but these don't completely detract from the experience. I'm looking forward to the next Gundam release from RightStuf. :D


Last edited by belvadeer on Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:51 pm; edited 2 times in total
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lemurs



Joined: 01 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:37 pm Reply with quote
belvadeer wrote:
I wonder, does this series poke fun at itself with its own references? Because in one episode it spoiler[showed a couple of mobile suits from G Gundam while the characters were going over data and Gym even executed what he called the Shining Finger move in the Turn X, though it looked nothing like Domon's famous technique].

Turn A is somehow supposed to be in the distant future of all the Gundam universes simultaneously. So the Dark History not only contains the Universal Century, but also G Gundam's Future Century and so on. It's the union of all of them, hence the Turn-A's universal quantification symbol.
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belvadeer



Joined: 11 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:49 pm Reply with quote
lemurs wrote:
Turn A is somehow supposed to be in the distant future of all the Gundam universes simultaneously. So the Dark History not only contains the Universal Century, but also G Gundam's Future Century and so on. It's the union of all of them, hence the Turn-A's universal quantification symbol.


Ah I see. Thanks for clarifying. And here I thought it was one of those "let's slap a reference in there for the fans" things.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:42 pm Reply with quote
belvadeer wrote:
lemurs wrote:
Turn A is somehow supposed to be in the distant future of all the Gundam universes simultaneously. So the Dark History not only contains the Universal Century, but also G Gundam's Future Century and so on. It's the union of all of them, hence the Turn-A's universal quantification symbol.


Ah I see. Thanks for clarifying. And here I thought it was one of those "let's slap a reference in there for the fans" things.


Well, it's both. The timelines can't fit together. There's no way. It's not supposed to make linear sense.

It's best to say "the other Gundam timelines are the past of Turn A, but Turn A is not necessarily the future of those Gundam timelines". It's a nod to the previous Gundam shows.
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belvadeer



Joined: 11 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:13 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Well, it's both. The timelines can't fit together. There's no way. It's not supposed to make linear sense.

It's best to say "the other Gundam timelines are the past of Turn A, but Turn A is not necessarily the future of those Gundam timelines". It's a nod to the previous Gundam shows.


Okay then, so it's both.
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WeirDiE_InC



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:33 am Reply with quote
I'm extremely glad to hear that the interview with Syd Mead is seeing the light of day.
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:39 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
belvadeer wrote:
lemurs wrote:
Turn A is somehow supposed to be in the distant future of all the Gundam universes simultaneously. So the Dark History not only contains the Universal Century, but also G Gundam's Future Century and so on. It's the union of all of them, hence the Turn-A's universal quantification symbol.


Ah I see. Thanks for clarifying. And here I thought it was one of those "let's slap a reference in there for the fans" things.


Well, it's both. The timelines can't fit together. There's no way. It's not supposed to make linear sense.

It's best to say "the other Gundam timelines are the past of Turn A, but Turn A is not necessarily the future of those Gundam timelines". It's a nod to the previous Gundam shows.



The timelines can fit together if you understand Tomino's stance on Turn A Gundam. Turn A is the end point of Gundam. Gundam as a concept, that transcends the UC timeline, or the X timeline, or the Seed timeline etc... Every other (future) Gundam series will forever be in the past of Turn A.
Turn A is about answering the question "can humanity go genuinely beyond war, and if yes then what is the price to be paid ? ". Tomino had posed the question with the original Gundam, but never really answered it. And no other Gundam series ever answered it either. That's where Turn A comes in. The ending is not the end of Turn A (literally it is obviously) but it is the end of Gundam as a franchise/meta franchise. That is what the cocooning of the Turn A and X really means.
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:36 am Reply with quote
Cptn_Taylor wrote:
The timelines can fit together if you understand Tomino's stance on Turn A Gundam. Turn A is the end point of Gundam. Gundam as a concept, that transcends the UC timeline, or the X timeline, or the Seed timeline etc... Every other (future) Gundam series will forever be in the past of Turn A.


No, they don't fit without retconning. Tomino wanted to fit them together, but he was overruled and Turn-A is classified officially as its own alternate universe which has no effect on other timelines. So what penguintruth said is the correct way to approach it.

Cptn_Taylor wrote:
The ending is not the end of Turn A (literally it is obviously) but it is the end of Gundam as a franchise/meta franchise. That is what the cocooning of the Turn A and X really means.


That is what Tomino wanted, but he isn't the one who gets to decide things like that. He actually came off as pretty annoyed / angry that his vision was discarded and Gundam was going to continue on after he tried to wrap it all up.

ryanvamp wrote:
Maybe it was always meant to be a cult hit, only enjoyed by a small audience even inside the already increasingly small fandom that loves mecha series, but as long as from time to time people decide to check it out, maybe that will be enough as a consolation.


I don't think that is right. Turn-A was followed by SEED which was a huge hit. High ratings in a prime time weekend time slot. Not Saturday morning Shonen ratings huge, but the best the franchise had seen since ZZ around 2 decades earlier. You can't really blame Turn-A's failure on the lack of mech fans.

I think the main thing holding Turn-A back was all of Tomino's usual quirks just not meshing well with the direction anime went since his earlier gundams. I liked Turn-A a lot, but I did also see it fairly close to when I first watched his older works.
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Black Thunder 6



Joined: 08 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:22 am Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:

I don't think that is right. Turn-A was followed by SEED which was a huge hit. High ratings in a prime time weekend time slot. Not Saturday morning Shonen ratings huge, but the best the franchise had seen since ZZ around 2 decades earlier. You can't really blame Turn-A's failure on the lack of mech fans.


SEED's success was largely due to its appeal to teenagers at that time who liked the show for its melodrama and characters more so than the actual mecha, its DVD sales were phenomenal but its gunpla sales weren't impressive and in the case of Destiny's outright bombed. It's not exactly loved by mecha fans but people outside the circle which seem to have kickstarted a trend that was the key for success for a lot of mecha anime from the last decade but seem to have ultimately dwindled in the present with no mecha anime able to replicate its success despite using the same formula. History is now repeating itself with Bandai pushing drama with their newest entry Iron Blooded Orphans in another attempt to reintroduce Gundam to a new audience so who knows what will happen this time around.

Quote:

I think the main thing holding Turn-A back was all of Tomino's usual quirks just not meshing well with the direction anime went since his earlier gundams. I liked Turn-A a lot, but I did also see it fairly close to when I first watched his older works.


He admits that its failure was largely due to Syd's mechanical designs not appealing to fans at the time, he hasn't changed at all in terms of writing his characters only difference being is that he's more cheerful than he was in the 80's, its really easy to say that his style doesn't mesh well with modern sensibilities which G-Reco proved but despite that it still went on to sell well and its probably his biggest hit since.....ZZ so maybe there's still appreciation for his style that just wasn't there when Turn A premiered.
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SilverTalon01



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:44 pm Reply with quote
Black Thunder 6 wrote:
SEED's success was largely due to its appeal to teenagers at that time who liked the show for its melodrama and characters more so than the actual mecha, its DVD sales were phenomenal but its gunpla sales weren't impressive and in the case of Destiny's outright bombed.


I don't know about as a whole, but several C.E. designs are quite popular. Strike Freedom specifically was (and is) incredibly well liked. Now yeah, SEED was on a major channel at a main stream time so it attracted a lot of casual viewers who weren't necessarily going to go buy a bunch of gunpla.

Regardless, you're introducing an irrelevant point to dismiss my counter to another poster's claim. You don't have to buy gunpla to be part of the fandom of mecha series. In fact, there is no magical bar that you have to pass to be included in that. Casual fans of mech series that just enjoy them when they happen to see one are still fans of mecha series.

Black Thunder 6 wrote:
He admits that its failure was largely due to Syd's mechanical designs not appealing to fans at the time, he hasn't changed at all in terms of writing his characters only difference being is that he's more cheerful than he was in the 80's, its really easy to say that his style doesn't mesh well with modern sensibilities which G-Reco proved but despite that it still went on to sell well and its probably his biggest hit since.....ZZ so maybe there's still appreciation for his style that just wasn't there when Turn A premiered.


Mecha designs are not by and far the most frequent complaint about Turn-A. They were certainly not popular with fans, but it was by no means just that which displeased fans.

G-Reco did well with disc sales because it was specifically aimed at much older fans with much more disposable income. Biggest hit since ZZ isn't saying much. Nothing he has done including G-Reco has come even remotely close to Z and ZZ numbers.
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Black Thunder 6



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:19 pm Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:

I don't know about as a whole, but several C.E. designs are quite popular. Strike Freedom specifically was (and is) incredibly well liked. Now yeah, SEED was on a major channel at a main stream time so it attracted a lot of casual viewers who weren't necessarily going to go buy a bunch of gunpla.

Not really. From SEED the most popular mecha design was the Freedom Gundam (it ranked 3rd in the favorite MS poll from Gundam Ace below the RX78-2 and the Zaku II) then the Strike Gundam and the Aegis, Strike Freedom was a metric ton less popular than Freedom as were all the suits from Destiny in fact out of the suits only a few of them are popular (mainly Kira's suits) the rest remained unnoticed or sold poorly this is a far cry from something like Wing which gets support from all its lead Gundams including its grunt designs to this day while people largely associate SEED with Strike and Freedom.

Quote:

Regardless, you're introducing an irrelevant point to dismiss my counter to another poster's claim. You don't have to buy gunpla to be part of the fandom of mecha series. In fact, there is no magical bar that you have to pass to be included in that. Casual fans of mech series that just enjoy them when they happen to see one are still fans of mecha series.


Gundam has always ran on sales of Gunpla, Bandai always look towards Gunpla sales over discs and SEED was infamously known for not being a big hit in terms of that which meant the audience didn't care for the mecha aspect but the characters and drama because it appealed to them more than giant robots fighting, this proof is shown when you see thst every spinoff of the C.E. era has done poorly because Lira and Lacus weren't present and also what came about with Destiny when they had to boot Shinn out for Kira halfway through. Those also the old Gunota who hated the C.E. era and constantly ridicule Fukuda on twitter over what happened to it due to his incompetence. You vastly underrate the fickleness of casual fans just because they enjoyed one mecha anime doesn't mean they'll pursue others, I think the problem wasn't that Turn A didn't appeal to mecha fans rather it didn't appeal to casuals outside it like SEED did.

Quote:

Mecha designs are not by and far the most frequent complaint about Turn-A. They were certainly not popular with fans, but it was by no means just that which displeased fans.


The designs are really the only complaint I've seen in regards to Turn A, outside that how Tomino handled this cast is really no different from how he handled the cast in his previous shows in fact the cast is uniamously praised for not being grating like the casts in Victory, Zeta and ZZ, Harry Ord is considered to be one of if not the best Char clone in the franchise and the ending is usually ranked high among the best ones in the franchise. The pacing being slow is also a complaint I've seen being thrown about and that could be another factor as to why it never caught on.

Quote:

G-Reco did well with disc sales because it was specifically aimed at much older fans with much more disposable income. Biggest hit since ZZ isn't saying much. Nothing he has done including G-Reco has come even remotely close to Z and ZZ numbers.

There wasn't a statement that said G-Reco was for older fans, Tomino wanted it to appeal to children but the late night timeslot meant that it was never gonna do that anyways. It did well in numbers people wouldn't expect given the controversy even better than the children orientation GBF. Its really just to highlight how he never had another successful venture with the franchise after ZZ, obviously no Gundam series later has done as well as Zeta even SEED.
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:22 pm Reply with quote
Black Thunder 6 wrote:
Not really. From SEED the most popular mecha design was the Freedom Gundam (it ranked 3rd in the favorite MS poll from Gundam Ace below the RX78-2 and the Zaku II) then the Strike Gundam and the Aegis, Strike Freedom was a metric ton less popular than Freedom


And you just proved you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about and are just making things up.

Oct 2010 SF #1 out of all suits in all gundams
http://www.toonzone.net/forums/threads/gundam-ace-top-20-polls-october-2010.5031901/

2009 SF#2 overall
http://z8.invisionfree.com/A_New_World_Order/ar/t1303.htm (in case you can't read, Freedom didn't even make top 20)

Feel free to google for more polls. Not only is SF crazy popular, it has serious lasting power. So again, you are just pulling crap out of your ass, and if you're going to do that, there is no reason to bother to address anything else you said.

Well, one more thing. If the only complaints you've seen about Turn-A are about the designs, then you didn't even spend as much time looking as it took you to make up the rest of that crap.
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