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gacha



Joined: 03 Mar 2018
Posts: 59
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:53 pm Reply with quote
>The France-based Gobelins School of Visual Arts announced a partnership with Netflix on June 12 to promote diversity and equal opportunity within animation.

This sentence makes no sense whatsoever. It's like promoting diversity and equal opportunity in the russian ballet. You want to create animation? Go and create french animation. Or assimilate and go through the same hardships as japanese if you want to get into japanese animation for some reason. Why in the world should japanese animation industry cater to random french people just because they want an easy life and feel good about themselves? You want to promote equality? Go and help japanese women to get into the industry.
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Xe4



Joined: 04 May 2015
Posts: 72
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:23 pm Reply with quote
gacha wrote:
>The France-based Gobelins School of Visual Arts announced a partnership with Netflix on June 12 to promote diversity and equal opportunity within animation.

This sentence makes no sense whatsoever. It's like promoting diversity and equal opportunity in the russian ballet. You want to create animation? Go and create french animation. Or assimilate and go through the same hardships as japanese if you want to get into japanese animation for some reason. Why in the world should japanese animation industry cater to random french people just because they want an easy life and feel good about themselves? You want to promote equality? Go and help japanese women to get into the industry.

First off, these are students and graduates of Gobelins, one of the most highly influential and well respected animation schools in the entire world, not just "random French people" who "want an easy life". I'm absolutely positive there are tons of companies in and out of Japan jumping at the chance to work with Gobelins grads.

Second, diversity in art is important not just with respect to gender (though yes Japan needs to make strides in that area for sure) but also ethnically, culturally, nationally, and otherwise. It directly impacts the style and scope of stories told both in Japan and elsewhere. Someone from a different background will have a different (quite valuable) viewpoint on how to tackle different artistic challenges and scenes. That's why you see an effort to have French and African and American (among others) students go to Japan, and alternatively to have those from Japan work in America, France, etc.
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Changeman



Joined: 06 Jun 2018
Posts: 72
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:47 pm Reply with quote
I thought Little Witch was just a series licensed by Netflix, not an original.

What I mean is that I always thought that series where the anime is first broadcast on Japanese television (Nanatsu no Taizai, Kakegurui, etc.) are just licensed. While Devilman Crybaby that was made exclusively for Netflix are the originals.

Are these just contract issues? or just something said not to think she saw it illegally?

Why I honestly do not think it's fair for Netflix to take the credits for series that it just licensed.

About diversity. The Romans became the greatest empire of the ancient world precisely by accepting the ideas and different people at the beginning of its history.

The problem would be if they made a forced inclusion and Netflix used these people only to put their progressive political agendas in the Japanese animation.

But so far this would be a conspiracy theory, right?

Let's hope both sides can learn and evolve.
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gloverrandal



Joined: 20 May 2014
Posts: 379
Location: Oita
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:25 pm Reply with quote
Has Netflix produced a single successful anime? I have not seen any show produced by them sell well in Japan. Only being able to work on Netflix shows sounds terrible.
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gacha



Joined: 03 Mar 2018
Posts: 59
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:28 pm Reply with quote
Xe4 wrote:
Second, diversity in art is important not just with respect to gender (though yes Japan needs to make strides in that area for sure) but also ethnically, culturally, nationally, and otherwise. It directly impacts the style and scope of stories told both in Japan and elsewhere. Someone from a different background will have a different (quite valuable) viewpoint on how to tackle different artistic challenges and scenes. That's why you see an effort to have French and African and American (among others) students go to Japan, and alternatively to have those from Japan work in America, France, etc.

Which is exactly not an effort "to promote diversity and equal opportunity within animation". You are talking about cultural exchange, they are trying to put it under the banner of weird political agenda. For random french people. Pretty sure if there are "tons of companies in and out of Japan jumping at the chance to work with Gobelins grads", they wouldn't send them to the glorious Yapiko that are half-french to begin with. Dust in the eyes while trying to earn political browny points from all the wrong people. Such a cheap and useless effort while they could at least try to do something that actually matters to the industry.
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 1136
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:48 pm Reply with quote
The 'diversity' word is being frivilously used here as just a fancy way of promoting a kind of work-abroad internship/partner/co-op program.

France and Japan have been involved in a lot of co-productions and are likely to do more stuff in the future.

A lot of French students are fans of anime and Japan and would love an opportunity to work there for awhile.

It fosters partnerships and talented knowledgeable people who'll help facilitate future co-operative projects between France and Japan.

This only helps everyone on both sides.

Goeblins promoting it will attract students to their program for an opportunity to go to Japan, and likely vice versa with Japanese animators going abroad, and together they'll help improve things on either end over the long course.
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partially



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:50 pm Reply with quote
Changeman wrote:
I thought Little Witch was just a series licensed by Netflix, not an original.

What I mean is that I always thought that series where the anime is first broadcast on Japanese television (Nanatsu no Taizai, Kakegurui, etc.) are just licensed. While Devilman Crybaby that was made exclusively for Netflix are the originals.

Are these just contract issues? or just something said not to think she saw it illegally?


Netflix generally plays a bit fast an loose with "Netflix Original", but basically anything that receives any degree of support during production Netflix will label an "Original". So no "Netflix Original" does not mean that any said show was made exclusively for Netflix, in fact most Netflix shows aren't, they are generally joint productions. Hence airing elsewhere has no influence on this category. And yes the Little Witch TV Series did receive production support from them. The OVAs did not, hence why if you search for them on Netflix you will see they are not "Original".

Changeman wrote:
About diversity. The Romans became the greatest empire of the ancient world precisely by accepting the ideas and different people at the beginning of its history.

The problem would be if they made a forced inclusion and Netflix used these people only to put their progressive political agendas in the Japanese animation.

But so far this would be a conspiracy theory, right?

Let's hope both sides can learn and evolve.


Did you seriously suggest that one of the most militaristic and subjugative empires in history did not use "forced inclusion"? The Romans were insightful in that yes they did accept ideas and different people if they were "good ideas" that would help expand the empire. Those people had no choice about their inclusion, however, and if their ideas did not mesh with the Roman ideal, they were harshly subjugated. It was certainly more accepting in the early empire, particularly of religion, but to suggest the Romans did not forcefully assimilate is passing strange.

As for what Netflix is doing there is nothing forceful or conspiracy about it. I am not sure what political agenda you believe Netflix wants in anime? What they are doing is offering a pathway for artists to experience other workplaces, a very very common activity in business because it eliminates group think to an extent and encourages diversity. Nowhere does it say the artists must remain in Japan, and I imagine most of them after their term is done will opt to return home.
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deviljho0001



Joined: 01 Feb 2019
Posts: 35
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:16 pm Reply with quote
I thought this was about making an anime about diversity like that Crunchyroll anime. Thank God it's not. French are always great at animating.
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reanimator



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1289
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:28 pm Reply with quote
Forget Diversity. It's all about Meritocracy. Diversity doesn't mean a thing to the industry if a diverse group of people still doesn't have anything of quality to show.

Gobelin students have proved their meritocracy with their talents and skills to the whole wide world (Hooray Internet). There are other good animation/art schools with diverse group of people and how come they're not recognized for "diversity"? The reason is simple. Not everyone is striving for excellence thus they're not getting recognized.
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octopodpie
ANN Managing Editor


Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 1753
Location: Washington State
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:33 pm Reply with quote
gacha wrote:
Xe4 wrote:
Second, diversity in art is important not just with respect to gender (though yes Japan needs to make strides in that area for sure) but also ethnically, culturally, nationally, and otherwise. It directly impacts the style and scope of stories told both in Japan and elsewhere. Someone from a different background will have a different (quite valuable) viewpoint on how to tackle different artistic challenges and scenes. That's why you see an effort to have French and African and American (among others) students go to Japan, and alternatively to have those from Japan work in America, France, etc.

Which is exactly not an effort "to promote diversity and equal opportunity within animation". You are talking about cultural exchange, they are trying to put it under the banner of weird political agenda. For random french people. Pretty sure if there are "tons of companies in and out of Japan jumping at the chance to work with Gobelins grads", they wouldn't send them to the glorious Yapiko that are half-french to begin with. Dust in the eyes while trying to earn political browny points from all the wrong people. Such a cheap and useless effort while they could at least try to do something that actually matters to the industry.


Please read the actual article if you're going to comment.

"For random French people" is something you've said twice now with no basis. This program isn't just for French people, as the article states.

"Yapiko" is somewhere this particular student has interned before, she's not necessarily going there as part of her selection by Netflix. That also does not support your argument in any way.

I know you wanna rage about politics because "diversity" seems to be a trigger word for some people, but if you can't actually be coherent I'm going to consider this soapboxing.
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Kai99



Joined: 18 Aug 2015
Posts: 73
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:38 pm Reply with quote
Changeman wrote:
I thought Little Witch was just a series licensed by Netflix, not an original.

What I mean is that I always thought that series where the anime is first broadcast on Japanese television (Nanatsu no Taizai, Kakegurui, etc.) are just licensed. While Devilman Crybaby that was made exclusively for Netflix are the originals.

Are these just contract issues? or just something said not to think she saw it illegally?

Why I honestly do not think it's fair for Netflix to take the credits for series that it just licensed.

About diversity. The Romans became the greatest empire of the ancient world precisely by accepting the ideas and different people at the beginning of its history.

The problem would be if they made a forced inclusion and Netflix used these people only to put their progressive political agendas in the Japanese animation.

But so far this would be a conspiracy theory, right?

Let's hope both sides can learn and evolve.


You just got triggered by the "diversity" word. Netflix wants their own Attack on Titan, Fullmetal Alchemist, or Fruits Basket but they dont want to have go through dealing with Japanese ownership of their products. They want to help shape the talent in the hopes of that talent creating winning products for them that they can own and profit off the merchandise. By investing in non-Japanese talent but hiring Japanese animators to create the show, they hope it will appeal to anime fans while having a different, more western feel to it that they hope could appeal to non-anime fans.

Also, if you've never seen what Gobelins students produce, your missing out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6ZmMjMdrqs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXKOdvYYsJQ
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OceanwaveIII



Joined: 05 Nov 2015
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:30 pm Reply with quote
Kai99 wrote:
Changeman wrote:
I thought Little Witch was just a series licensed by Netflix, not an original.

What I mean is that I always thought that series where the anime is first broadcast on Japanese television (Nanatsu no Taizai, Kakegurui, etc.) are just licensed. While Devilman Crybaby that was made exclusively for Netflix are the originals.

Are these just contract issues? or just something said not to think she saw it illegally?

Why I honestly do not think it's fair for Netflix to take the credits for series that it just licensed.

About diversity. The Romans became the greatest empire of the ancient world precisely by accepting the ideas and different people at the beginning of its history.

The problem would be if they made a forced inclusion and Netflix used these people only to put their progressive political agendas in the Japanese animation.

But so far this would be a conspiracy theory, right?

Let's hope both sides can learn and evolve.


You just got triggered by the "diversity" word. Netflix wants their own Attack on Titan, Fullmetal Alchemist, or Fruits Basket but they dont want to have go through dealing with Japanese ownership of their products. They want to help shape the talent in the hopes of that talent creating winning products for them that they can own and profit off the merchandise. By investing in non-Japanese talent but hiring Japanese animators to create the show, they hope it will appeal to anime fans while having a different, more western feel to it that they hope could appeal to non-anime fans.

Also, if you've never seen what Gobelins students produce, your missing out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6ZmMjMdrqs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXKOdvYYsJQ






Eh I can't see netflix succeeded ,.Japan benefits from a media culture where you can have adult content and beautiful characters in animations produce a long running series without much outrage or social barrier for getting it to be produced. wither that be Fan-service or drama tits ass pretty boys violence and gore , the characters that look human enough to be attracted to them creating the wauifu culture , Werid cartoony styles of alot of Western product lack that appeal . They also have one of biggest comic book industry on earth draw material from. While Japanese Animations is notorious for low pay for outsource work in japan . Being a manga artist especially a successful one Is Not . you can make a stable living off of being a manga artist in japan far as I know in ways that would be incredibly difficult for the average broke starving comic book artist in the west which I am included in that statement . .

__________________________________________________________________

Animations for adults in the West is still very much the fringe elite appeal of a tiny tiny tiny audience basically a handful of enlighten hipster who post on animation forums . realistically. The production tend go off to die in some indie art house cave to never see the light of day and have zero interest from mainstream , and the average Western viewer could care less about high qualtiy 2D animation . We also actively shit on 2D animated art there a reason Disney stopped making 2D films and are pumping more money into live action remake ... which for better or worse are actually quite successful and more successful economically than the classic animations
. The only real success i've seen is Avatar the last air bender but that was like what 15 years ago ? avatar no one near big as AOT naruto one piece or dragon ball multi-generational anime works japan are global or even thing like My hero academy are larger , .. Avatar also heavily relied on being Anime enough at the right time during US bubble . but korra it sequel did terrible .

. I am not sure how well it did globally . Compare that too international anime , where middle of the road stuff like Fairy tail is getting sequels (though fairy tail did sale 99 million manga comics ) or the Sequel to Naruto , Boruto etc .

so... not sure who going to buy these Western flavor shows , the 20 open minded people on an English speaking animation form ?

Also western flavor for animation is usually code word for 3 things

A ) Political Satire (*Family guy)


B) let tone it down and remove anything that might be Too Rated R or offensive or too sexual or Too strange so we can try to sale it to kids

C) just turn it into god awful live action cg so we can try to trick regular adult heavily conditioned against any form of animation into watching it and not feel embarrassed for watching animation .(*Death note live action)

so I can't see much coming of this .
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AmpersandsUnited



Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 189
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:40 pm Reply with quote
Kai99 wrote:
You just got triggered by the "diversity" word. Netflix wants their own Attack on Titan, Fullmetal Alchemist, or Fruits Basket but they dont want to have go through dealing with Japanese ownership of their products. They want to help shape the talent in the hopes of that talent creating winning products for them that they can own and profit off the merchandise. By investing in non-Japanese talent but hiring Japanese animators to create the show, they hope it will appeal to anime fans while having a different, more western feel to it that they hope could appeal to non-anime fans.


I agree with this assessment. We saw this happen with Cartoon Networks as they started phasing out anime content in favor of original cartoons and properties they could own the broadcasting and merchandising rights wholesale. It's also popped up in American comics in response to blockbuster movies being based on comics becoming so prevalent as more people wanted money and bragging rights on how they were personally responsible for the original comic that a billion dollar movie was based on.

Whether it will pay off for Netflix remains to be seen. French people have worked in the anime industry for awhile now but they've never really drew attention to the fact. And the one anime Thomas Romain did end up creating himself was a huge flop. I have my doubts Netflix is going to get what they want. Just announcing you plan to make a huge hit is setting oneself up for failure, as Cliff Bleszinski himself can attest to. I don't think any mangaka responsible for the biggest hits out there ever thought they were making a billion dollar franchise when they set out to make a series.
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Galap
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:21 pm Reply with quote
I'm not sure whether this specifically is the best way to go about this kind of thing, but I must say that as an animator myself cross-cultural teaching would be a very good thing to have. If you don't speak japanese and don't live in japan, it is very hard to get an education in animation-as-techincal art. The problem here is that if you go to western animation school, there typically are two tracks you can take, one for 'studio-like' animation, and one for 'creative' animation. And if you want to really learn how to do things, how to animate to a high degree with techincal artistry, you're kind of stuck. The 'creative' type things don't really try to teach you techinique; it's more about self-expression. But I would want to take animation courses to learn techiniques I could use to better express the ideas I would want to. The 'studio-like' track isn't really good either, because they teach in a style that doesn't so much interest me. I would like to learn how to animate with correct anatomy on all characters, correct perspective on all characters, props, and backgrounds, etc. Japanese animators have this kind of thing down and seem to be able to teach it, but if you're not in japan, you're on your own and have to learn it yourself. It's not like it's not possible to learn it yourself but there is a lot of reinventing the wheel going on, and it is kind of annoying to know that it could be taught, but resources for this in English pretty much don't exist.

I think this process is definitely a good thing, but what I would recommend most to enable more people outside of japan to learn animation is have japanese-style animation courses be taught in other languages, maybe online.
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casenumber00



Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 82
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:04 am Reply with quote
Oh course I promote diversity but Japan is over 99% homogeneous, and I imagine the anime industry mirrors that, but diversity is to promote the talents of those ethnic backgrounds that may have been marginalized however I dont think the anime industry needs that. People have liked Japanese animation because it is unique due to its culture, sub cultures, isolation, and experiences. I have fallen out nearly all US animation because I see it as a dying art with its lack of quality in engaging stories, limited number, and almost no visuals to impress me, AKA sakuga. I see that adding more people to that industry my meddle in it to make anime far from what it is.
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