Forum - View topicHaibane Renmei (TV).
|
Goto page Previous Next |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Rip3001
Posts: 6 |
|
|||
|
Personally, I enjoyed the series as well as my Brother who usually doesn't like dramas. As the series was drawing to a close, we were a little mixed about how it was going, but in the end after thinking about it, it felt overall complete...leaves to the imagination.
My Brother and I believe it was about spoiler[the afterlife. Generally it's believed by some that if you die without truely believing in God, yet you were still a good person, you would be taken to Limbo. There you would wait with others while they were judged and if you continued to be goodwilled, you were either accepted into Heaven, sent back to Earth to "try again" or if you fell even further away, you were sent to Hell. Not quite sure about Rakka, but Reki seems to be there because she commited suicide. If she had continued down her path of dispair and tried to commit suicide again in Limbo, she would have been cast into Hell.] But that's just my take on the series. =P |
||||
|
||||
Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
|
|||
|
||||
|
||||
|
Rip3001
Posts: 6 |
|
|||
|
That's the word I was looking for. I just remember reading about the belief and the word "limbo" was also used.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Rip3001
Posts: 6 |
|
|||
|
That's the word I was looking for. I just remember reading about the belief and the word "limbo" was also used.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Red Recluse
Posts: 56 |
|
|||
I agree aboutspoiler[ the Haibane being the souls of dead children. And it is fairly obvious that Reki committed suicide. But I believe Rakka committed suicide as well, by jumping down a well (it's hinted at pretty strongly). Also, she was sinbound like Reki was, so I think they both were suicides. ] |
||||
|
||||
|
abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
|
|||
|
Ah, the Danish Royal Library finally got around to delivering Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World. Apparently, the previous loaner had failed to return the book on time. Anyway, I got it the other day, and finally found time to read it last night. The following is my (spoiler-ridden) first take on the book (hereafter HBW), and comparison with Haibane Renmei (hereafter HR).
WARNING! All that follows must be considered spoiler material. I have not used spoiler tags, to avoid producing a solid block of text. If you read this, it will spoil both the novel and the anime. So do it at your own risk! 1. Structure of the narrative(s) HBW consists of a dual narrative. On the one hand, there is a regular, almost Chandler-esque narrative, in the usual formal narrative first person past tense, wherein the protagonist is a sort of human cryptography engine. He's an educated fellow, with a penchant for reading Camus, Stendhal and Turgenev. The chapter headings for the chapters of this narrative are usually triple: Chapter 1, for instance, is "Elevator, Silence, Overweight". The other narrative is told in the present tense, and takes place in a strange walled city, wherein the citizens are separated from their shadows (and, it transpires, from their memories). The protagonist of this narrative is apparently scouting the town, attempting to understand it. The chapter headings of the second narrative are simplistic: "Woods", "Hole". The two narratives alternate throughout. As the story progresses, elements of both the narratives begin to intrude into each other, and it slowly becomes obvious that the narratives are two aspects of the same story - and that the protagonist is the same person. In contrast to HBW's slightly ornate narrative structure, HR has a very straightforward one-track narrative, with only a few flashbacks (all but the final of which are portrayed in a fairly conventional manner). There are shifting protagonists, as the focus of the narrative shifts from Rakka to Reki and back again. 2. Themes of the narrative(s) HBW is all about identity. The protagonist repeatedly makes allusions to Stendhal's Le Rouge et le Noir and to Camus' L'Étranger. Both of these tales deal with identity, in one form or another. Julien Sorel, the protagonist (and both the hero and the villain) of Stendhal's Le Rouge et le Noir, is a man very much in search of his own self. He passes through his life searching for its meaning, and comes to a sticky end. Meursault, the protagonist of Camus' L'Étranger, tells a tale of his being unjustly accused of murder. This is genuinely immaterial to the story, which is a cleverly constructed narrative intended to cause the superficial reader to find Meursault innocent of actual wrongdoing. The more incisive reader, however, will soon realise that all the facts being presented are presented by Meursault himself, and the narrative thus is tainted by deception. It can hardly be coincidental that Murakami makes such extensive reference to these two works - obviously, he is making a point about identity and memory. He is trying to show how the protagonist's memory and identity are in a state of flux progressing towards ultimate oblivion (a parallel with Julien Sorel's death on the guillotine is evident). Along the way, he raises the interesting question of how significant a rôle memory plays in identity. The theme of memory is also strongly presented in HR, where the haibane are born into the world of the walled town bereft of the memories of their past existence. Only a single dream remains - a dream which, as the story unfolds, is revealed to be a key to the unhappy demise of each haibane in the former existence. Dealing with that memory appears to be the point of the haibane's rebirth in the town. Thus, HBW and HR share the common theme of "memory", but the theme of "identity" is unique to HBW. Conversely, the theme of "redemption" or "regret" is not a factor of HBW's narratives, whereas it plays the central part in HR's tale. 3. The physical trappings One-half of HBW and all of HR take place within similar walled towns, with a number of common features. The walled town of HBW is a construct of the subconscious of the protagonist. In one sense, it is unreal, existing only in his mind. In another sense, it is the central reality of his existence. The walled town of HR, on the other hand, appears to be "real" to all intents and purposes. It can't be ruled out that all of the world of the haibane is a figment of the imagination of either Rakka or Reki - but it seems improbable. A number of common "physical" features exist - including, it could be argued, HR's touga, who fulfill part of the same rôle as the mysterious Gatekeeper of HBW. It is clear that, as ABe himself has remarked, the walled town of HBW served as an inspiration for the geography of the walled town of HR. Nevertheless, all geographical similarities aside, the sense and import of the two towns are radically different. ABe's purpose with the town of the HR narrative is a different one than Murakami's purpose with the walled town of HBW. The former is a stage for a sort of morality play, whereas the latter is an internal manifestation of the protagonist's identity. One minor but significant element that occurs in both HR and in HBW is that of a hole in the ground, as a symbol of a watershed, of change in personal identity. In HBW, as the protagonist's world/memory begins to crumble, a manifestation of this takes place in the form of a group of men digging a hole in the ground, inside the walled town that exists only in the subconscious of the protagonist. The hole is symbolically filled with snow, thus seemingly vanishing again. In HR, Rakka spends a period of time at the bottom of a well-like hole, where she undergoes a personal change that proves significant in her understanding of herself. Unlike the physical similarities of the two towns, this symbolic use of a hole as a sort of pseudo-womb, at once bringing oblivion and rebirth, is probably the strongest thematic similarity between the two stories. 4. Conclusion While it is clear that ABe has derived a great deal of inspiration from Murakami's novel, and has openly borrowed several important features (much as Murakami openly borrows from Stendhal, Camus, and Turgenev, among others), the overall impression is that the similarities between HR and HBW are superficial. Both stories are clearly the work of genius, but they are dealing with entirely different points. Murakami is trying to define identity as a function of memory, whereas ABe is trying to explore the theme of hope and hopelessness as factors in personal redemption. Of course, both tales are much deeper than this initial and highly superficial discussion. -abunai |
||||
|
||||
msi435
 Posts: 465 Location: Behind you! |
|
|||
|
How do you read so fast.... I'm jealous
 .
|
||||
|
||||
|
Red Recluse
Posts: 56 |
|
|||
|
Thanks for contacting me, abunai. You've covered the comparison between the two works better than I could have.
Very true; the differences far outweigh the similarities. |
||||
|
||||
|
abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
|
|||
Well, I learned to read at a very early age. My earliest recollections of reading is sitting on my Mom's lap and having Donald Duck comics read aloud to me - and suddenly realising that I could read what was in the text bubbles. I was about three at the time. See, comics are good for kids! I've had my reading speed measured, for Danish texts - and I read Danish at roughly 6-7 times the normal speed. I am subjectively certain that I read English at about twice that rate. In practical terms, I can read a 500-600 page work of high literature in about one or two days (which means War and Peace takes me less than a week) - or one of Robert Jordan's potboilers in less than a day. Non-fiction literature takes more time, because one isn't just reading it, one is also pondering it as one reads. In languages other than Danish and English, I still read very fast - but the speed depends on my skill level in the language. Common-Nordic languages like Swedish or Norwegian flow easily, as do French, German, Italian, and Spanish. Recently, my Japanese skills have reached the point where I can read simple texts effortlessly - but the speed is pitifully slow... I've often been asked how one becomes a speed reader. The answer is - you start training while you're still in diapers, and by the time you're six or seven, you've either got it, or not. - abunai |
||||
|
||||
RabbitRevolution
 Posts: 218 |
|
|||
|
Abunai: I'm most impressed by how you can read in so many different languages
You guys have all inspired me to go back and rewatch Haibane Renmei this summer so I can gain a better appreciation of it. The last episode left a pretty lasting impression on me, but the more low-key nature of the other ones make it easy for people like me to miss what they're really about. Guess with school out I could try to read HBW as well (though it's probably way over my head). |
||||
|
||||
|
abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
|
|||
In fact, most of the really great works of literature can be read by anyone. Of course, that myth has made it possible for a lot of poseurs to write meandering and senseless books, and successfully pass them off as "great" literature (I lump James Joyce in with this crowd, though I admit it's not a popular view). Sure, some great works are very difficult to comprehend, because the artist was visionary (much of Stanley Kubrick's oeuvre, for instance), but these are the exceptions. -abunai |
||||
|
||||
xuebaochai
 Posts: 85 Location: An unstable world |
|
|||
Hmmm. It is quite possible to improve one's reading speed as an adult quite significantly, although reaching Prof. Abunai's dizzying speeds is probably not for us mortals (although I found a speed reading website offering 25000WPM guaranteed...wouldn't put too much trust on that). Let's not forget the most important factor here, motivation: my own personal record is reading the three volumes of the "Lord of the Rings" AND "The Hobbit" in something like twenty hours, no sleep or breaks of any kind... but I had a twelve year-old's stamina, and was *seriously* motivated.
Last edited by xuebaochai on Mon May 09, 2005 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
|
dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
|
|||
|
Could you post the original title, abunai? I'll see if there's a Chinese or English translation here.
I wonder how much time you need for 紅樓夢? 
(I don't think 薛寶釵 was the one who teared up a fan...) |
||||
|
||||
|
xuebaochai
Posts: 85 Location: An unstable world |
|
|||
|
I read the "Hongloumeng" in English in about six days, but I took my time to work through the poems. My Chinese ain't good enough to tackle that bad boy direct. My wife (who's a native Mandarin speaker) re-read it in Chinese recently in about two days, but I think she skipped to the good parts.
|
||||
|
||||
|
xuebaochai
Posts: 85 Location: An unstable world |
|
|||
|
btw, well-spotted Dormcat. The Avatar is not Baochai but Qingwen (I love that character, and love the actress who did her in the '86 series). If an operator can change my username to yangqingwen it'd make my life easier
|
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group