Forum - View topicAnime and heavy metal.
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1773 Location: South America |
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I am rather young to the internet/cult anime community but I noticed some similarities (and notable differences between the perception of these similar elements among the fans of these two subfields of art) between these two very different things.
I was a huge fan of heavy metal music between the ages of 16 and 21, when I was in that age bracket at times I listened to metal 8 hours straight. I still liked to listen to some metal but it doesn't hold the same freshness now. Since I am getting into anime over the last 2 years and I an noticing some similarities. Manga/Anime is fundamentally Japanese literature/cinema drawn using variations of Tezuka's style developed in the 1950's. Manga/anime spans a huge variety of genres but these two basic elements are present in nearly all anime: everything from K-ON! to LOGH has a certain Japanese feel and all share the same basic convention of designs as defined by the 1950's mangas drawn by Tezuka. Heavy Metal is a genre of popular music that originated from rock but has a strong mix of blues and classical influence and is fundamentally characterized by the centrality of the guitar into the song structure (most pop/rock songs, by contrast, are more driven by vocals or by a combination of instruments, metal is over 50% guitar) and it is always very distorted. Inside heavy metal one can find a huge diversity of subgenres that one almost can say it is a medium of songwriting based on the guitar with a strong blues and classical influence. It's not exactly a medium like anime in the sense Anyway, heavy metal has a global fanbase totaling millions of people, it is not mainstream in any country except Finland (though it was mainstream in the 1980's in some larger parts of Europe, genuine heavy metal was never quite mainstream in the US). Most metal fans are people aged from teenagers to their 30's. Anime has a fanbase of (let's say) several million of people in the west, it is not mainstream outside of Japan (and even in Japan most anime series are rather niche, though some anime is considered essential and overall about 35% of all DVD/Bluray sales are anime) and most anime fans are teenagers or young adults, roughly the same demographic as metal fans, though there are also millions of children who like to watch some shonen shoujo or Ghibli anime while almost nobody under the age of 12 listens to Kreator. Like anime, heavy metal is not respected in their respective circles: among music composers seldom a heavy metal album is considered a classic and generally these well respected albums are only those albums that are more closely connected to other genres of popular music. In anime the only works that are respected and regarded as masterpieces by western film critics in general are those Miyazaki films that are family friendly such as My Neighbor Totoro and Spirited Away (the only two anime in the top 250 films of the last Sign and Sound poll of film critics, which is that famous poll that elected Citizen Kane as the greatest movie ever several times in earlier iterations). Metal albums tend to be badly produced and metal music clips tend to be of rather low quality most of the time. Similarly, most anime before the 2000's was characterized by bad technical quality (such as LOGH) with a few exceptions (such as the most expensive GHIBLI films and Akira). I noticed some severe discrepancies between the perception of anime fans and metal fans of their respective artforms. Metal fans tend to possess a certain pride when his/her favorite band is relatively unknown (the more obscure, the more true hardcore fan you are!) while anime fans appear to suffer from lack of confidence in their own perceptions of anime, hoping that more people watch his/her favorite shows to prove that it's as great as it appears to be to that particular fan. I think that this difference is fundamentally derived from the long set perception that animation is a children's medium and that as result if you are an adult and a fan of a show that few people watch you are doing something "wrong". Some anime fans also tend to criticize the other fans in general claiming that they are "eternal teenagers" or full of weird fetishes, while most metalheads are proud of their tastes and their fellow fans and show contempt for the lesser ones that cannot appreciate the greatness of metal (saying things like "I feel pity for those that cannot understand the greatness of metal music"). I guess that since most heavy metal is extremely aggressive most fans are males full of testosterone and these people tend to be very confident of their own taste while anime is generally a neutral or even rather (in the case of many series and films) feminine/delicate thing that draws the interest of less self assertive persons. Though, since anime is not a genre there are many anime that are extremely aggressive (ultra violent titles, for instance) and also, moe series like Clannad are extremely aggressive as well in terms of their assertiveness of kawaii aesthetic standards. Another popular series, Madoka is also extremely aggressive since it mixed a very muscular psychological drama with extreme kawaii aesthetics. Though, differently from anime, metal is something that can be easily done by a small group of people without much money so that it's easy to keep metal alive, specially today that it is extremely easy to distribute independent songs on the internet while an anime series of film typically costs a few million dollars so it requires a substantial market demand to pull the cranks of the anime making machinery. |
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Bango
 Posts: 1122 |
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Just sayin I've had loads of metalheads hate on me because I like some band they don't or don't like a band they do. I've had loads of anime fans hate on me for liking a series they don't or not liking a series they do. I think this is more related to niche things rather than any specific medium, since it happens with jRPGs, tabletop games and indy videogames too. I'd say anime fans have a boosted chance of appreciating metal as a side effect of appreciating any wider spectrum of media. You don't become an anime fan if you can't open your mind at least a little because it's a niche foreign thing to begin with. Also just sayin that I never would've heard of two of my current favourite bands, Kamelot and Within Temptation, if it weren't for anime. I wouldn't have known Man o War without anime either, although for different reasons. |
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Galap
Moderator
 Posts: 2354 |
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I came into this thread thinking that it was going to be about anime that feature heavy metal soundtracks, and was very excited, because I'm a fan of anime (obviously) and also heavy metal, so I wanted to discuss the intersection of the two. I'll address the OP below, but I'll take this moment to ask, what anime series do you guys know of that extensively use heavy metal music?
I'll take this pretty rare opportunity to plug one of my favorite anime of all time, Geneshaft, which I think is amazing for many reasons, one of which is the fact that it has a mostly heavy metal soundtrack done by Akira Takasaki. Everyone seems to dispise this show though, for reasons I don't really understand... Anyway, I see the comparison you're drawing, and I think that you can draw similar parallels between any two niche interests. I'm personally more of a fan of European metal, or european-style metal, like Epica and Seventh Wonder. Bango, how did anime lead you to Kamelot? (I'm a pretty big Kamelot fan myself) |
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Jose Cruz
Posts: 1773 Location: South America |
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I see, all niche things tend to be similar in many respects, given that these are the two niche things I am into I noticed the similarities.
However, there are some notable differences between the fans of both niches and the industry. Another niche thing is film (not only the usual blockbuster but also old and non-English films) and I notice that this niche is much more respected than both HM and anime. Also, I am sorry to inform you that I don't know any anime title that uses heavy metal music (though I am quite a purist and according to my definition of HM I have never saw a TV show, movie or anime with any heavy metal soundtrack). Though K-ON!! (2010) had one episode where the teacher's band plays a song that was supposed to be HM. I am also a big fan of melodic HM like Kamelot and Blind Guardian, I think that this subgenre of HM is rather similar to many anime in tone. So I expect that anime fans would probably enjoy more power metal than genres like death metal and black metal. |
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TsunaReborn!
 Posts: 4713 Location: Cheltenham UK |
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Watamote uses "heavier" music here and there in a few of the episodes. But it's more heavier rock than black/death metal. There are obviously a few openings/ending that are heavier (I.e. Death Note's second opening by Maximum The Hormone), than say a standard pop rock opening. I guess the wider markets that most show are aiming are not fans of heavy/death/power metal...? |
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Bango
Posts: 1122 |
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For me it's all about the power metal, symphonic, etc. Actually, going by mapofmetal.com all my favourites are ones on or around that type.
I can squeeze in some Sound Horizon on a stretch and hit some doujin remix groups like S.S.H., Demetori or Crow's Claw but really Denkare Karen/Yosei Teikoku is my only rare option. Sadly the anime stuff is far less awesome than the Black Cyc stuff. Compare http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__yjDMK9eSE with the Magipoka opening, for example. Both great but there's a pretty big gap. As for Kamelot it was unsurprisingly a Typemoon mixed music video. I forget what song specifically. Within Temptation was a Madoka music video and Man o War was a mixed jRPG video. |
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4829 |
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Extensive...I can't think of many...but ones who do use it time to time are FLCL and Peacemaker Kurogane. |
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Jose Cruz
Posts: 1773 Location: South America |
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Indeed. It's would be commercial suicide for anyone to use such niche music in their show of movie. Like, there is only 1% of chance that the audience of a series (any series, anime or not) would like to hear some underground true metal music. It would only happen, if, let's say, someone like Hideaki Anno were a huge fan of death metal, then he would include it in the climax of an Evangelion film and the EVA geeks would be burning their head trying to decipher the symbolism of that artistic choice. |
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Bango
Posts: 1122 |
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I don't have Detroit Metal City or Bastard! handy but did either of them actually use metal in their soundtracks?
EDIT: Name fixed. Though I'd totally watch Destroid Metal City. |
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icetea00
 Posts: 50 |
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I was thinking of Detroit Metal City when I saw this topic. lol
And Watamote OP is more like screamo or "emo" (not in the traditional/original sense) to me. I am sure purists wouldn't think it's metal (come on, screamo is punk). As far as I remember, purists don't even consider nu-metal/alternative metal real metal (might have changed now). I should give kudos to DN/Zombie-Loan/Shiki, etc for using songs with a more alternative rock sound than the usual pop/idol/dance anime songs, but real heavy metal songs in anime are rare (even DN 2nd OP is not that heavy). I guess the music taste of most of the anime market (otaku males and females) is those idol group type of pop songs (just listen to the music released by voice actors/actresses). The target market of female idol groups/singers singing with a high-pitched cutesy voice just like most voice actresses is male otaku too. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6525 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Now, you young whippersnapper, let me tell you how it really was, from someone who was alive at the time. Not only was heavy metal mainstream in the US, UK and Australia between 1970 and 1975, it was arguably the most popular rock or pop genre for some of that period. By the mid 70s, Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple were 3rd and 4th behind the Beatles and the Rolling Stones for all time total album sales. (Bearing in mind, though, that album sales only took off with the Beatles' Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band in 1967 and Michael Jackson was still a kid in the Jackson Five.) Led Zeppelin was phenomenally successful in the US where all the albums between Led Zeppelin 1 and Physical Graffiti topped the album charts and sold in the millions. Deep Purple were also, interestingly enough, extraordinarily successful in Japan, hence the reason for recording what turned out to be their best album, Made in Japan. Somewhat behind them, but still very successful, were Black Sabbath. Heavy Metal, along with Progressive Rock, lost favour once British punk come along, although the New Wave movement actually did more to replace them in the charts - British punk never actually sold all that well. Both of the older genres completely lost their credibility for quite some time afterwards, being children of the hippy, psychedelic counterculture that had lost its relevance in the gritty, difficult stagflation that came to dominate the 70s. Perhaps your desire to identify with what you perceive to be fringe taste markets leads you to draw comparisons between heavy metal and anime. Believe you me, in the early 70s heavy metal was popular in a way that anime never was and never will be. Nor will heavy metal itself be again. Its time is gone. By the way, the term "heavy metal" is a double reference to Led Zeppelin, when they were still performing as the New Yardbirds. A critic described them as sounding like metal clashing and predicted they would sink like a lead zeppelin. The band wore the epithet as a badge of honour, improving the spelling in the process. End of rant. |
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Gatherum
 Posts: 773 Location: Aurora CO |
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Well, I was going to write something more comprehensive, but unfortunately, the browser on this piss-poor performance government computer won't [expletive] stop crashing.
As someone who has a fondness for both, I can understand trying to relate the two. I've been waiting for a good anime (as in, non-cliché) that at least employs an OP, if not an entire soundtrack, of the weirder, more experimental shit like this for a hot minute now. Thing is, Japan is just not very big on heavy metal, even in the underground. There are some notably (in)famous exceptions, such as Corrupted and Sigh, but otherwise, Japan specialises in power metal and visual kei (if the latter can even be considered a musical genre in the first place). Even Blood Stain Child, though being arguably the only act that melds, and affords equal attention to, their heavy metal and electronic elements competently without losing their melodic death metal structure, have a distinctly kawaii and "happy" atmosphere to them that almost goes contrary to metal conventions. Still, they're probably the best hope we have as far as a "real" heavy metal OP/ED goes. If they get enough attention with their next album, we might see an anime that uses one of their songs.
Still, I feel like it is slowly, slowly, slowly becoming a thing in the sense that there are sometimes some halfway metal songs like this, as well as more pop acts incorporating pseudo-metal elements into their songs. Though most metal purists would be reluctant to accept it as "metal" due to the distinctly J-rock feel it has to it, the Watamote OP is actually not too far off from the kind of melodic metalcore that would qualify. This is where the metalcore discrepency comes in: its acceptance tends to be dependent on how prominent the melodic death metal influence is. It is for that reason that a band such as, say, As I Lay Dying, qualifies for most, whereas Bullet for My Valentine does not. The aforementioned OP, while not nearly on the same level as most of the recordings of the former, does take a bit more from melodeath than I would have thought possible without having heard it myself. I doubt that this alone would do it, though: I'd need to hear more material by the group who wrote it.
I can't really say the same for this, though, Putting aside Peacemaker Kurogane, which I have neither seen nor heard of, FLCL's soundtrack is strictly alternative rock, as performed by The Pillows. Still, I will agree that it rocks more than 95% of all other anime soundtracks do. |
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Gatherum
Posts: 773 Location: Aurora CO |
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...Expanding on the convergence of anime and heavy metal, though, I think that the disparity comes in the fandoms.
Apart from some Dir En Grey worship (which is not me trying to deprecate, since they have won me over with Dum Spiro Spero), I have yet to meet any otaku besides myself who have a vested interest in heavy metal, much less the underground or "extreme" forms. This may sound stereotypical, but while anime fans are more or less accepting of most forms of music, it would seem that they respond better to J-pop and J-rock. Putting aside rare exceptions, why would a given production company use metal themes? Not that it's wrong to try and do something different, but you're basically catering to two demographics that might as well conflict with each other, especially since the aesthetics are just so different. I'm still holding out hope, but realistically, it's a long shot. |
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Bango
Posts: 1122 |
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If the dark magical girl stuff sideshoots into interest in "dark mecha" then some metal might become appropriate for the BGM or OP/ED. Let's take a look at some themes where different types of metal might fit:
Disclaimer: Don't expect purist stuff from me. I think metal is for all who want to hear it so to me Rhapsody is just as valid as Led Zeppelin. -A total serious Lodoss-style fantasy could use some symphonic or folk metal. -A dark mecha series provided they don't go for the 80/90 feel and use synth pop. -Dark cyberpunk. Oh, cyberpunk where did you go? I deleted "people forming a metal band" from my list because shows about bands are generally dependant on album sales and the only way they'd get album sales would be to not use metal. Kind of a catch 22 there. The other thing is the OST would need to be a vital part of the production and few composers are blessed with such a role in an anime. You'd need Yuki Kajiura to suddenly decide she wanted to be a metal head, which would be totally awesome but I don't see it happening. |
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Gatherum
Posts: 773 Location: Aurora CO |
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Me, personally, I'd love to hear something like Old Man Gloom's "The Forking Path" (URL leads to a legal bandcamp stream of the entire album; simply select track five) or Generation of Vipers' "Silent Shroud" in the soundtrack, probably as a theme to a fight in a particularly dark and/or visceral series or something. In fact, the more aggressive sludge/post-metal/post-hardcore examples like this would make me fangasm all over a given anime that had it in the soundtrack.
Unfortunately, sludge metal in any form couldn't be less popular in Japan: Encyclopedia Metallum has all of nineteen bands from Japan labelled as such. It's a shame, really. 
EDIT: ...Or something like this (another bandcamp page; select track eight)! Seriously, the best album of 2013... <333 |
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