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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:35 pm Reply with quote
On the topic about negative reviews and such, I think a lot of people go about reviews in the wrong way. They seem to think everything needs to be a really intellectual thing or an amazing story... but the fact is, they don't. I've always believed that any medium should be reviewed based on the goal of the product. For example, a comedy should be graded based on how funny it is. Or a fanservice show should be graded on the quality of its fanservice. Or an action show should be graded on the quality of its action. They shouldn't all just be marked down because they lack an "Emotional Story" or "Believeable characters", since that was never their goal in the first place.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:05 pm Reply with quote
If you really change your opinion of a show after reading a review it sounds like you didn't have much of an opinion to begin with and are just looking for a shepherd to follow around. It's even worse with those those 'angry internet review' things which are always so forced and staged, then you got people parroting their quotes without actually thinking for themselves or have even watched/played what the subject was.

RyanSaotome wrote:
On the topic about negative reviews and such, I think a lot of people go about reviews in the wrong way. They seem to think everything needs to be a really intellectual thing or an amazing story... but the fact is, they don't. I've always believed that any medium should be reviewed based on the goal of the product. For example, a comedy should be graded based on how funny it is. Or a fanservice show should be graded on the quality of its fanservice. Or an action show should be graded on the quality of its action. They shouldn't all just be marked down because they lack an "Emotional Story" or "Believeable characters", since that was never their goal in the first place.


Yeah, there's that too. Not to mention it's painfully obvious when someone is reviewing something because they 'have to' and not out of a genuine interest. It's pretty clear when they didn't put any effort into liking or even wanting to like a show.


Last edited by TitanXL on Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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superdry



Joined: 07 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:07 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:

Yeah, there's that too. Not to mention it's painfully obvious when someone is reviewing something because they 'have to' and not out of a genuine interest. It's pretty clear when they didn't put any effort into liking or even wanting to like a show.


That sounds like the IGN review of Double Dragon Neon I just read yesterday.
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BonnKansan



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:41 pm Reply with quote
RyanSaotome wrote:
On the topic about negative reviews and such, I think a lot of people go about reviews in the wrong way. They seem to think everything needs to be a really intellectual thing or an amazing story... but the fact is, they don't. I've always believed that any medium should be reviewed based on the goal of the product. For example, a comedy should be graded based on how funny it is. Or a fanservice show should be graded on the quality of its fanservice. Or an action show should be graded on the quality of its action. They shouldn't all just be marked down because they lack an "Emotional Story" or "Believeable characters", since that was never their goal in the first place.


Well, what makes one comedy funnier than another? What makes better quality fanservice? Couldn't engaging and believable(not necessarily 'realistic') characters contribute to both of these? Couldn't great animation, art, plot, direction and timing give the fanservice or comedy greater impact? The 'comedy' and 'fanservice', etc., don't exist in a vacuum. It may only need to do one thing well to be successful with its primary audience, but couldn't doing other things well help it do that one thing better too?

And with reviews, the better ones do take into account the genre and expectations, and give the series credit for what it does do well. But what's wrong with reserving the highest score or praise for shows that manage to both fulfill and transcend their subgenre, and appeal to more than just the hardcore niche fans? Not all shows need to do that to be 'fun' or 'good', but it's nice if more of them try to, to improve our odds of getting at least one really 'great' memorable show like, say, Madoka Magica each year.
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shabaz92



Joined: 26 Dec 2011
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Location: MA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:43 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
then catch up on Sword Art Online - which is some Grade-A confusing anime pablum, but damn if it doesn't tick off my Anime Fan Expectation Checklist with ease. But I'm not going to get bent out of shape if someone points out Sword Art Online's ridiculous premise or paper-thin characters. I have my own defenses - I think the show is aptly made and immensely watchable, directed and animated with energy and style, and the familiar themes and elements of the show makes it easy for me to forgive the jumbled plot.
I've read a lot of(long) reviews and comments about SAO, but this might be the best of them all. Nice work!


RyanSaotome wrote:
On the topic about negative reviews and such, I think a lot of people go about reviews in the wrong way. They seem to think everything needs to be a really intellectual thing or an amazing story... but the fact is, they don't. I've always believed that any medium should be reviewed based on the goal of the product. For example, a comedy should be graded based on how funny it is. Or a fanservice show should be graded on the quality of its fanservice. Or an action show should be graded on the quality of its action. They shouldn't all just be marked down because they lack an "Emotional Story" or "Believeable characters", since that was never their goal in the first place.
Agreed, and as was mentioned a bit in the article, I think too many people shape their opinion based on reviews(and others opinions) rather than forming their own option first and letting reviews expand their previous ideas. I also think too many people focus on numbers, like if a show is rated 5 out of 10. They'll focus entirely on the number rather than what is actually said about a show.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:44 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
It's pretty clear when they didn't put any effort into liking or even wanting to like a show.


A lot of this is just "critics don't tend to like what I like" rather than any meaningful criticism of the review process.

"Just like it for what it is!" "Don't pay attention to anything other than what the show is doing right" "You should want to like everything" "it's fun to hate stuff so just hate everything and people will pay attention to you". These are all statements that to me totally disqualify anyone from even commenting on how they think reviews 'should' be done. If your opinion on the matter can be boiled down to "these reviews don't agree with my opinion, therefore they're wrong", then you aren't really worth listening to on the issue.
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Keichitsu0305
Bargain HunterBargain Hunter


Joined: 24 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:46 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
It's a pretty unique opportunity, and one he probably will never have again (unless he spends the rest of his life making Evangelion reboots)


ಠ_ಠ

26 animated TV episodes; an alternative ending film; two compilation films; a manga (which technically started before the show) ongoing for nearly a decade; three non-canon manga from other writers; multiple video games (including a dating sim); a store in Harajuku; and the four part Rebuild films. Not too mention some pretty funny parodies from other TV shows.

Oh. And lots of merchandise.

Safe to say that there's no reason for another reboot; plenty of media to last this franchise for years.

I hope Anno makes something new with Studio Khara once the Rebuild tetralogy is done.
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Chagen46



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:48 pm Reply with quote
Quote:


Yeah, there's that too. Not to mention it's painfully obvious when someone is reviewing something because they 'have to' and not out of a genuine interest. It's pretty clear when they didn't put any effort into liking or even wanting to like a show.


A reviewer is under no obligation to like a show. Their job is to watch it and then rate it, giving the reasons as to why they rated it that way.
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RyanSaotome



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:56 pm Reply with quote
In the end, reviews are pretty pointless unless you share similar tastes to the person reviewing something. So if someone really likes say... a Josei drama, and you are a fan of those, then you should check it out. But if you're not a fan of Josei dramas, then the review likely won't mean much to you. On the flip side, if you like slice of life and moe stuff, but the reviewer doesn't, it shouldn't really matter if they give it a bad score... They were never going to like it in the first place, so it doesn't really impact its actual quality. There will always be biases towards certain genres, even if the reviewer tries to be fair.

Last edited by RyanSaotome on Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:57 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Quote:


Yeah, there's that too. Not to mention it's painfully obvious when someone is reviewing something because they 'have to' and not out of a genuine interest. It's pretty clear when they didn't put any effort into liking or even wanting to like a show.


A reviewer is under no obligation to like a show. Their job is to watch it and then rate it, giving the reasons as to why they rated it that way.


That's if your a professional or being told to do this get money/paid for a living. I am sure some of you know that I review stuff in my spare time. Now I have the option of choosing what ever I like to review because I'm not a professional, even if i do reviews for jast-usa on the side.

Then there are copy pasta reviews that get posted for 9gag/4chan on MAL, AD, Amazon etc for shi* and giggles that people actually take seriously.

@ryan
this is why I read a lot of reviews from key or Rebecca because they have along the same taste that I do.


Last edited by Cecilthedarkknight_234 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:02 pm Reply with quote
Brian wrote:
It strikes me as unnecessarily defensive; a knee-jerk reaction against ALL CRITICISM FOREVER in order to avoid questioning your own taste. Honestly, I think that line of thinking leads to people watching and enjoying a lot of garbage, to the point where only their baser instincts are fulfilled by genre-coating dross, to the exclusion of everything else.

Quote:
You've got your opinion. That's all you need. You're not an idiot, and you're not wrong. And in the same way, those critics aren't wrong, either.

There was seemingly a certain force with which the first of these comments was asserted. That a person could ignore their peers' suggestions and evaluations concerning what ought to be given "aesthetic" attention, attending instead only to their most basic of pleasures was presented — quite reasonably — as something problematic, something one would exhort a reader to avoid.

Though let us consider the person who does just this, someone who maintains her obstinateness through wilful avoidance of other people's critiques and comments. Recognising the first of the above quoted passages as an act of criticism, insofar as it is part of the ongoing critical "discussion" you described, she dismisses its point and thereby ignores the aforementioned force through which it was to supposed to influence her.

If she were to attempt to justify her avoidance of all writings of a "critical" ilk, such as that of the first quote, she could take parsimonious recourse to what is stated in the second quote: that there is a sense in which neither she nor you is incorrect to hold your respective views, and by the same token that there is nothing incorrect in her stubbornness. (After all, she might say, surely what each party holds on the matter is his or her respective opinion, whatsoever this precisely means.)

How, out of personal interest, would you propose to address this issue? If a person is not only free to hold the views they do, but also free to do so without incurring error, are we then in a position to specify that such a freedom doesn't extend to the holding of obdurate views about other people's critical contributions?

Doubtlessly there are many straightforward ways of doing this, though your own views would be enlightening.
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danilo07



Joined: 25 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:04 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
In the end, reviews are pretty pointless unless you share similar tastes to the person reviewing something. So if someone really likes say... a Josei drama, and you are a fan of those, then you should check it out.

Not really for every genre there are objective standards .I am pretty sure Key is not insane when it comes to josei dramas,yet in every anime preview guide in which he wrote about josei dramas he gave them a positive review.
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Keonyn
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:11 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
In the end, reviews are pretty pointless unless you share similar tastes to the person reviewing something.


Not at all. A well-written review will provide enough of the details to determine whether you will or will not agree with the reviewers viewpoint. It's a reviewers job to flesh out the dominant elements of what they're reviewing and provide their take on these elements and their justifications. This allows the reader to not only know what these key elements are, but how and why someone does or doesn't dislike them. You don't need to agree with the reviewer because the reviewer should provide you with enough information to determine which side of that fence you would also be on. Their job isn't to echo your opinion, but to voice their own and provide enough to compare that to your own.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:12 pm Reply with quote
danilo07 wrote:

Not really for every genre there are objective standards .I am pretty sure Key is not insane when it comes to josei dramas,yet in every anime preview guide in which he wrote about josei dramas he gave them a positive review.


Huh? I'm not following that logic.

At any rate, shows need to be judged not only by their "objective" "quality", but by how well the achieve what they set out to do.

For example, from the "Objective quality" viewpoint, NakaImo is trash. However when judged by the standards of what its trying to be, a trashy fanservice comedy, its a great success.

Now, if you really can't stand trashy fanservice comedies, then you won't like it, but if you do, NakaImo is one of the standouts of the genre.

Not everything needs to be a deep masterpiece of writing and drama. Some shows, or books, aren't trying to be that, and are perfectly enjoyable for what they are.

This isn't "lowering my standards" or "settling for genre crap" its "enjoying things that entertain me."

NakaImo is both objectively terrible, and one of the most fun shows of the season.
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danilo07



Joined: 25 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:29 pm Reply with quote
@Fencedude5609 Can you tell me what NakaImo is trying to be?Like what emotions it wants to provoke etc...
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